Author Topic: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail  (Read 4331 times)

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Offline 4my3sons

Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« on: March 21, 2015, 10:39:12 AM »
I could use some advice. I am upgrading to Scotty 1106 electric down riggers from manual cannon (rod holder gimbal mount). My head is spinning from the research. Been in touch with Scotty and Arima and getting their thoughts. My boat has the 47" x 9" aft side rail without the DR plate. The original owner had the rails added as he had his grandkids and wanted the rails added for safety. In the sometimes sloppy Monterey Bay, I kind of like them too. But it does make it a challenge when selecting the correct mounting (location & application) for these big boy down riggers. One suggestion, and I am leaning towards, is have the DR plates and angle supports made and welded on to my existing rails. Done deal? They are real solid rails, but I just don't know. The DR would be in a great location.  It also would have the DR base 36" from the deck. However, I have only seen pictures/posts of guys using the 24" rail with the big solid cylinder support. The other option is to use the Scotty 1025 right angle mount on the gunwale on the bow side of the rail.  The swivel option would then be useless, as the bow and aft rail would be in the way. However, these units do have the tilt-up feature. So why not just mount the tilt-up plate/base directly to gunwale (with extra backing probably). There are some pros and cons of having the DR that far from the stern. Also, a line hauler might be added one day too. Thoughts?
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline wedocq

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 11:40:06 AM »
I would have the downrigger plates welded to the rails. It would put the DR in a perfect spot, and I would hate to give up the swivel option. For one, when you are docking your boat, you do not want to hit a pier pylon with the DR while it's extended out.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline GregE

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 11:50:02 AM »
I like this style-  good support for the Ace line hauler. Planned on putting them on the SR 19 but that's a 'later project'

Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline whale

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 02:14:34 PM »
I would go with the rail Greg recommends. The rail you have now only has three bolts and they are inline. Unless you make a pedestal that straddles the rail, remove it and go fresh.
2014 Sea Chaser 17, Yamaha F90, T9.9

Online BruceL2_Fish

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 02:15:46 PM »
I made a set similar to what Greg is showing and love them.  I use my Scotty downrigger and pot puller on them. 
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 02:31:09 PM »
I would go with the rail Greg recommends. The rail you have now only has three bolts and they are inline. Unless you make a pedestal that straddles the rail, remove it and go fresh.

Thanks.  I am not sure what you mean by "inline". It is kind of hard to tell from the picture, but the center leg is at an angle (offset) for added strength I'd guess. So the center leg with bolt would support and the two end would prevent it from ripped off the boat...hopefully. 
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline Qwakwak

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2015, 03:29:39 PM »
 I think mounting on your rail without any additional support would not be a great idea. I have two scotty electrics mounted to my gunwales, one each side, and there's a lot of torque applied when running a 12-16lb ball, especially if you've got the 60" booms. I'm not sure how long your rails would stand up to that.
Since 1958- 15' cracker box, '59 Performer, 18' Fiberform/90 merc, Sanger super jet/454 chev, 17' Seaswirl I/0, 20' Hydrosport/200 mariner, Grand Banks 36, 15' Proline, 19' Sea Ray,18' sloop, whaler/115 yamaha.
Now-1989 Arima Sea Ranger 17/90 merc

Offline HemiGTX

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2015, 03:50:53 PM »
I concur with Greg and the rest. Conceptually, the 'pillar', in combination with a large backing plate under the gunnel, bears the strain of the downrigger and the rails are just along for the ride.  A Downrigger puts tremendous strain on the gunnel, especially when you hang up or hit a raft of kelp.
AKA: "The guy who fishes with Nicole"

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2015, 04:45:25 PM »
Thank you everyone.  Sound counsel. Probably 12-15# ball, so it better be stout. Not sure why Arima would sell them if they would not hold up.  Maybe for lighter freshwater. Im going to take the rails off and bring them to a local frame shop with pictures and instructions to fabricate something solid (and that would cover any holes on the gunwales).  Basically, it will be a pedestal mount with rails. To save another post, do any of you think I would need add extra backing, (SS or UHMW) for support under the gunwales?  There is some 4" X ? " material that runs the length.  If recommended, what length of backing material?  Sorry Hemigtx, i missed your reply, you pretty much answered these questions. Size and thickness of the plate would be useful info.  Thanks again!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 05:25:57 PM by 4my3sons »
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline polarbill1999

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2015, 06:04:51 PM »
Do you have a picture of were your rails are mounted now?  It might be interesting to setup to see where you might mount if going straight to the deck.
Brett
1996 Sea Chaser 16 the "Rhumb Runner"
70hp Envinrude VRO
6hp Tohatsu 4 stroke

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 07:30:21 PM »
Here a picture under the cover.
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline HemiGTX

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 07:31:54 PM »
You will need bracing under the gunnels.  I used 1/4" stainless plate.  Large pieces to spread the load.
AKA: "The guy who fishes with Nicole"

Offline polarbill1999

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2015, 08:14:46 PM »
Looks like those are mounted pretty far aft.  They may be able to mount on a pedestal and be able to swivel inward with the boom clearing the rail but that is mounted pretty far back.  You would probably need to use a stick/retriever to grab the release. 

Looking at the design of those rails, the middle support is angled to the outside which may help with the torque from downriggers if you decide to mount them to the rails.  If you decide to go that route could you add a support/strap that mounts to the the vertical(inside) portion of the gunwale?
Brett
1996 Sea Chaser 16 the "Rhumb Runner"
70hp Envinrude VRO
6hp Tohatsu 4 stroke

Online BruceL2_Fish

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 07:24:11 AM »
Here are the ones, I made with the different configurations I use them for.   The gunnel is already reinforced but I added a stainless plate under the gunnel as well.  I am not sure the rails you have will work well for you without some reinforcement.

Bruce

2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline GregE

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 08:35:01 AM »
Bruce, that is SO impressive!!   :applause:

The Gunnels have 1" plywood under the glass.  I put another 3/4" ply piece under my mount hard point for the Ace LH but didn't really need it.

I like your canvas reinforcement   :biggrin:
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2015, 09:22:35 AM »
Thanks Greg. Very nice Bruce!  Now I have something to show the frame shop should I go that route. My concern is covering the hole from the center leg (see how it is off-set towards the outside of the gunwale). Or perhaps this center hole can be utilized in the new base. But getting back to polarbill1999, I could use a combo 1025 right angle mount with the 2606 riser on top of that, then swivel mount. That should provide enough height to clear these rails. Then the question would be if it is too far from the stern (prop concern) and would that be strong enough. The benefit would be that it is removable leaving only the side gunwale plate when the down riggers are not in use, leaves a great deal of space to work the fish and I could leave the rail alone.
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline GregE

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2015, 09:08:10 PM »
Ken, my present plan for the SR 19 is to use the side mounts like you pictured.  And the swivels are definitely a nice thing to have- especially when things get busy. 
I used one on the SL 22 for the Ace Line Hauler.  You'll find there is a gap under the top plate that allows flex- I put a spacer and bolted thru the gunnel as I didn't need to remove the angle mount.   I planned to move the DRs forward but didn't get it done before we sold the Sea Legend.



You could use a rail mount pole holder like Bruce or one that mounts to the Scotty boom.  The factory pole holes in the back corner work but are further to get to.

The Osprey has a larger dance floor and wider gunnels but notice how far forward the DR is.  One thing to remember is how you are going to get in the boat from the dock- with the rails in the aft you'll need room forward of the DR to step across the gunnel.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 09:17:47 PM by GregE »
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2015, 07:18:57 PM »
Thanks Greg and everyone for the guidance. Took the rails to the fabricator, and we discussed. Kind of an expensive endeavor. Also, I would like the DRs more forward.  So on the gunwale it will go. More room work work gear and fish...hopefully. Also, the aft rail will be right there providing a little piece of mind for us tall guys. I am going with the Scotty right angle mount, about 12-18 inches aft of the built in step. It will leave enough room to hop out when docking. Swivel will still work, just need to tilt up to swivel  over the rail when docking. The boat stays in the berth in the harbor, so DRs will be removed after each trip. Also, I spoke with a Scotty tech and he said I'd be good with that location/mount and he has almost the very same set up. These folks at Scotty are very helpful (for Canadians  :jester:), so do not hesitate to pick their brains. I'll post pictures when complete. Thanks again for the help.
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline GregE

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2015, 08:59:34 PM »
...about 12-18 inches aft of the built in step

That's young knees spacing,  some of us have to swing more horizontally.   :shrug9:

Looking forward to your install pics and some FISH.  :biggrin:
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2015, 09:52:15 PM »
No worries there Greg. I'd remove the downrigger to let you out. But only after you sufficiently cleaned your share of salmon blood from the deck  :jester:
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150

Offline T-Rex

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2015, 11:01:55 PM »
You could mount them right on the rails, i did it with 15 lbers.
It looked sketchy to me at first too but once you tie it to the gunnel its very solid (that's the whole key to it) I remember standing outside my boat, grabbing the boom, pulling down and towards the stern testing it out, the way it usually works is a piece of 3/4" teak or Starboard screws into the bottom of the mount
and runs vertical down onto the flat part of the gunnel  to provide outer support, but in your case mounting it backwards looks like it would tie right into the inside of the gunnel, seen them both ways
Just google "scotty rail mount whaler"  if your still considering options
Sea Chaser 17, Suzuki DF90A

Offline GregE

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 09:33:39 AM »
No worries there Greg. I'd remove the downrigger to let you out. But only after you sufficiently cleaned your share of salmon blood from the deck  :jester:

NP Ken, I practice 'clean your mess and part of others'.   :biggrin:

BTW, I never got out on the blue water when I was stationed at Ft Ord in '83- 85.  Not fishing the upwell in the Monterey Trench was a missed opportunity.  My late wife worked at Community Hospital of Monterey Peninsula that is abbreviated CHOMP-  always thought the wine and cheese tray service seemed interesting.   :smile1:
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline 4my3sons

Re: Scotty 1106 vs. 47" aft side rail
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2015, 08:31:44 PM »
Sorry for your loss Greg. My sons were all born at CHOMP. Great hospital with great staff. Monterey is a special place. Fishing is not too bad either.

UPDATE

I lined up the right angle mounts and, in fact, there is a gap as reported by some. It kind of rocks. My  gunwales are not exactly 90. However there is contact. I don't think it is good that it is not solid on both surfaces. I'll have to shim the side of the gunwale behind the thru-bolted side mounting plate. Sound good?  I was looking at the original base plate of the swivel mount laying it on the gunwale. While it is a bit too wide as we all know, to go down through the top, a thought came to me. Why not have a piece U-shaped channel of steel as backing, with threaded holes even? The plate would then live top of the gunwale securely, with plenty of support backing under inside. The only drawback there would be esthetics ,as the plate is just a touch wider than the gunwale.
Ken

2005 21' Sea Ranger HT,  Yamaha F150