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Using Saltaway

Started by Rokefin, March 14, 2015, 09:53:57 PM

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Rokefin

I am looking to invest in "Saltaway" to use as a maintainence tool to flush the 115 Yamaha and the 9.9 kicker motor, the kicker motor I had to literally drill the blockage out of the cylinder head and block last summer after some  neglected previous use.
What have you found to be the best method for flushing - do you use their flushing tool or would it be better to mix the solution in a barrel or tub?
Is the flushing recommended after every use or seasonal? Do you leave the solution in the motors?

Also online I see "Salt Terminator", it is cheaper but has anyone used it?

Thanks for any experience you may have to share.

Chief of the Boat


Threeweight

I looked up the MDS on Salt Away and Salt Terminator once... should be searchable on the site here.  They are different in how they go about it, but both work.  So do a lot of products designed to deal with lime and mineral deposits in plumbing (the white crusty stuff inside your motor is calcium carbonate left behind when the saltwater evaporates).

I would run it in a barrel.  To dissolve built up deposits, the stuff really needs a chance to soak.  The hose flush doesn't really do that.  Start early in the morning, and mix a generous helping (at least a couple of cups) of Salt Away in the barrel w/ water, then run the motor in idle in the barrel until the water starts to steam.  Then let it sit and cool.  After a couple of hours, repeat.  Keep doing this as the day goes on.  Then drain the barrel and give the engine a flush with freshwater.  You should see all sorts of nastiness lining the bottom of the barrel (I did when I treated my kicker).
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Ko Ho

Been using Saltaway through the flush hose for over 10 years, and seems to work well. Suspect Salt Terminator works too. After flushing, I spray the trailer (especially the rollers and axle) and then the boat. Was pleasantly surprised to find the saltaway leaves the windshield clean and streak free!
2006 17 Sea Chaser, Twin Yamaha 40's

Packman

I flush the engine with Saltaway after every trip in saltwater.  The flushing tool that Saltaway sells is not robust enough to last long, it can't take most normal hose pressures.  I use a garden fertilizer sprayer (from Miracle Grow) that I can attach a hose to on the outlet part of the sprayer.  I have a hose "splitter" so that one short hose goes to the flushing port on the motor and a longer hose goes to a sprayer, so I can flush the engine while hosing off the boat.  Works like a charm and the motor has stayed in good shape.  No need to flush the engine with fresh water, I leave the saltaway in the motor to help prevent corrosion.
Sea Ranger 19, Mercury 115 4-stroke

GregE

 I like the Y hose idea with larger sprayer!!   :applause:

I'm a believer in flushing often and have the Large economy size Salt Away
Greg
2005 SL 22 Honda 225 Kodak II
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT, Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat; SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

DSledgeR

Use it after each use.  Think I'll give 3WT's idea a go on my kicker, as I bough it used.  Might be a good idea to do it that way at least once a year.

Diablo

Quote from: Packman on March 15, 2015, 02:25:00 PM
I flush the engine with Saltaway after every trip in saltwater.  The flushing tool that Saltaway sells is not robust enough to last long, it can't take most normal hose pressures.  I use a garden fertilizer sprayer (from Miracle Grow) that I can attach a hose to on the outlet part of the sprayer.  I have a hose "splitter" so that one short hose goes to the flushing port on the motor and a longer hose goes to a sprayer, so I can flush the engine while hosing off the boat.  Works like a charm and the motor has stayed in good shape.  No need to flush the engine with fresh water, I leave the saltaway in the motor to help prevent corrosion.

A couple of good ideas there. Garden sprayer and Y attachment very cool, get ur done. :applause:
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'67. 23 Tollycraft, 283 Chevy
'04  14' Western, '15 Tohatsu 10
'87  37 Roughwater two 8.2 Detroit diesels SOLD
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

La-Z-Buoy

In all seriousness, for a change, may I ask a question? Has anybody not used these products and had serious motor issues because of salt? As a rule, I think that most of us owners here are pretty good at cleaning up after fishing and washing the boat, motor and trailer, and flushing the motor with water. And personally I've not been witness to a "salt failure" but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. And the way that a lot of you guys trade up on motors, some don't even get the boat wet before trading up  :stirthepot: so the motor never gets a chance to get "SALTY".

I bought some salt removal stuff a couple of years ago and have never used it. I am going to try and get a "wash barrel" this year and use it like Threeweight described and see what happens. Of course, I have seen some serious failures on vehicles when a person has not done regular maintenance like oil changes (Mustang)/valve adjustments (Toyota Land Cruiser) for years and decided to all of a sudden do them :doh: ! It wasn't pretty.

Richard
Richard

2001 21' Sea Ranger HT
2017 DF 140 Suzuki, Honda 8

Craneman

http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=5209.msg58315#msg58315
Might want to look at this , mine was plugged and I dug as much out as I could and soaked with salt away what a difference
       Moe
91 15 ft Sea Hunter
45 hp Honda
4 hp Yamaha

Diablo

Quote from: Rokefin on March 14, 2015, 09:53:57 PM
I am looking to invest in "Saltaway" to use as a maintainence tool to flush the 115 Yamaha and the 9.9 kicker motor, the kicker motor I had to literally drill the blockage out of the cylinder head and block last summer after some  neglected previous use.

Richard read this from the first post.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'67. 23 Tollycraft, 283 Chevy
'04  14' Western, '15 Tohatsu 10
'87  37 Roughwater two 8.2 Detroit diesels SOLD
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

La-Z-Buoy

 :bowdown:  :bowdown:

Okay, I get it that there can be issues with build up. But in one instance that buildup was because of "neglected previous use".  And pee streams are notorious for blockage.

Rokefin, why did you have to break down your motor far enough to find that kind of deposit in the cylinder head and block? Were you getting overheat warnings, or worse?

Thanks guys. It will be interesting, maybe scary, to see what I get in the barrel when I try this out.
Richard

2001 21' Sea Ranger HT
2017 DF 140 Suzuki, Honda 8

rasslingref

Quote from: La-Z-Buoy on March 16, 2015, 09:00:18 AM
In all seriousness, for a change, may I ask a question? Has anybody not used these products and had serious motor issues because of salt? As a rule, I think that most of us owners here are pretty good at cleaning up after fishing and washing the boat, motor and trailer, and flushing the motor with water. And personally I've not been witness to a "salt failure" but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. And the way that a lot of you guys trade up on motors, some don't even get the boat wet before trading up  :stirthepot: so the motor never gets a chance to get "SALTY".

I bought some salt removal stuff a couple of years ago and have never used it. I am going to try and get a "wash barrel" this year and use it like Threeweight described and see what happens. Of course, I have seen some serious failures on vehicles when a person has not done regular maintenance like oil changes (Mustang)/valve adjustments (Toyota Land Cruiser) for years and decided to all of a sudden do them :doh: ! It wasn't pretty.

Richard

Richard:
Just took these pictures as I'm replacing the check valve and thermostats on my 1999 Honda 90.  Previous owner said he was good at boating and not good at maintenance.

David
1998 19' SR HT 2019 Yamaha 115 2017 Yamaha 9.9
Kitsap County, WA

Ko Ho

My old 2 stroke Suzuki seized up from salt after about 6 years of plain water flushing. The rollers on the trailer also froze up. I stated using salt away, and continued to use it after I got my Sea Chaser 8 years ago, and so far so good. In fact, the trailer rollers still spin like skateboard wheels.
2006 17 Sea Chaser, Twin Yamaha 40's

Threeweight

The issue isn't (just) salt.  The issue is the mineral deposits that are left behind when saltwater drains out, then the residue evaporates, the the motor sits for two weeks before it is run again. Chemically, saltwater is a crazy soup of minerals that like to form crystals.  When you run the motor on the hose, it doesn't really "flush" these hard deposits out because nothing is really pressurized.  It just fills the cooling jacket of the motor with freshwater, which then heats up and drains.  This is very helpful in reducing the problem and you should always try and do it after a saltwater run, but it isn't a 100% preventative solution.

Just about any motor run for more than a few hundred hours in saltwater will have mineral deposits in the cooling passages.  The most common are calcium deposits (the hard, crusty white or yellow stuff).  Over time, they get crustier and crustier and the cooling passages inside the motor loses efficiency and start to look like this Yamaha thermostat holder:



The problem with Saltaway type products for removing these deposits is that they are designed to attack need to be soaked and heated.  On the hose, it is hard to do this as all the Saltaway is gone in 5 minutes, then you are just flushing with freshwater.  The repeated treatment in the barrel approach works better in my opinion, as it keeps the Saltaway product warm and keeps the mineral deposits exposed to it.  Some guys on The Hull Truth have used vinegar in a similar way, with good results.

One thing to flag about these products is that they themselves contain salts and are mildly corrosive.  The idea behind them is they break down the bad stuff, then etch the surface of the aluminum in the cooling passages with a protective layer of oxidation (like how the grey patina on an aluminum boat protects it from further corrosion.)  Most encourage you to flush with freshwater, rather than let the stuff sit in the motor for weeks and weeks. 
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Threeweight

#15
A couple more thoughts from me...

Outboards have multiple systems for preventing salt corrosion and mineral deposits... a lot of problems seem to arise when one (or more) of them get ignored.

Freshwater flushing is great, always do it (preferably on the muffs in the driveway, and let the motor run long enough to warm up.)  If you can't do the muffs (at a marina or whatever), use the hose attachment (if your motor has one) to at least flush some of the nastiness out.  Running Saltaway is great (just don't do it in the marina... it contains soap, and that nasty goo growing on the docks loves the phosphates in soap).

Stay on top of sacrificial anode maintenance--both your internals and externals.  These things are supposed to be replaced when they are at 40-50% of their original size... way too many guys I talk do don't even know what they are, let alone where to find them or what condition they are in.  They are cheap ($5-10 each), most motors have 4 or 5.  No need to involve a mechanic... it takes 5 minutes to check em'.

Use a corrosion guard spay, or silicone lube.  I like to hit my power head occasionally with CRC Corrosion Block... it forms a thin grease film that seals the surface.

Watch for any nicks or scratches in the paint on the motor, and when they happen clean them well and hit them with touch up paint. 

When you service the impeller, thermostat, etc..., be sure to apply a coat of marine-grade anti-seize (Starbrite makes a good one), or even a little silicone RTV sealant, to the stainless steel bolt threads.  This will help combat salt corrosion welding them into the aluminum.


Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

AlAdams

Do you guys remove the prop before the bucket flush or do you just use a garbage can large enough to fit the motor with the prop?  Also, are there directions on the Saltaway container that recommend a specific product to water ratio?  I've never used the stuff and have always flushed with just fresh water.  Now I'm concerned after seeing these pictures. 
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'04 SR 21' w/Skip Tower  '04 Honda 130' '16 Honda 9.9

Threeweight

I leave the prop on, and my Suzi will just barely fit on a 40 gallon garbage can.  It is a pain in the butt to get it off once it is filled with water... I'd like to add a drain plug to mine.  A horse watering trough would be better.  There is a company that makes giant collapse able buckets for this purpose. 

I don't know what the recommended dosage is.  When I run my motors in a barrel, I just guesstimate about 1-2 cups of the stuff to 5 gallons of water.

No one should get too freaked out about all of this... motors have had these problems for as long as their have been outboards and saltwater.  I feel like the Saltaway has just become a handy tool in preventing problems in older motors.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

BayWolf

Running the motor in a bucket for a prolonged time, have you ever had a problem with the water getting too warm and triggering an overheat?
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:
WWW.Youtube.com/@Baywolf_Films

Threeweight

Yes, you don't want that to happen.  Let it run till the water starts to steam, then cut it off and leave it for a couple of hours.  Then repeat the process.  Typically takes about 15 minutes.  You will want to deflect the pee stream of the motor in some way so that it goes back into the barrel (I just lean a piece of plywood against the motor.)
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Qwakwak

Correct me here if I'm wrong. Using threeweights plan of filling a 40 gal trash can and then adding salt away at a ratio of 1-2 cups for every 5 gallons equals 8-16 cups of salt away everytime you flush. 16 cups equals 1 gallon of salt away. A gallon of salt away costs about $33.00 on Amazon plus tax and shipping. Using those figures, a flush using three weights method would cost between $18.00 and $40.00 everytime you flushed your motor. So is this suggested method something thats done infrequently, like once or twice a year or everytime you use the motor in salt water? My own experience has shown that if you religiously flush your motor with ear muffs, using salt away or not, long enough to let the motor warm up and run for awhile, you won't have problems. :anyone:
Since 1958- 15' cracker box, '59 Performer, 18' Fiberform/90 merc, Sanger super jet/454 chev, 17' Seaswirl I/0, 20' Hydrosport/200 mariner, Grand Banks 36, 15' Proline, 19' Sea Ray,18' sloop, whaler/115 yamaha.
Now-1989 Arima Sea Ranger 17/90 merc

Diablo

If you use the Saltaway flushing device you can switch from just flushing water to water with the Saltaway. The nob on top has three positions, off, flush, Saltaway. I found that if the device wasn't vertical it would use the Saltaway much too fast. I made this super complicated flushing support device.

http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=7614.msg87120#msg87120

I will run with fresh water until warmed up then turn on the Saltaway for a couple of minutes. I can do both motors and spray down the trailer and bottom or the truck with what is left.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'67. 23 Tollycraft, 283 Chevy
'04  14' Western, '15 Tohatsu 10
'87  37 Roughwater two 8.2 Detroit diesels SOLD
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Threeweight

You don't put 40 gallons of water in the barrel... otherwise you'd be trying to move 300# of water around.  Fill till it covers the cavitation plate on the motor.  This is something I'd do once every few years.  I did it to my 1994 kicker (used a Rubbermaid bin for it) because when I changed thermostats it was clear the cooling system was bad shape.  I had about 1/8 of an inch of crusty gray and white goo at the bottom of the tank when I drained it.  No idea how well the previous owner maintained it.

I did it with my Suzi main @300 hours or so.  Not much goo in the barrel, but enough of a film to make me glad I did it.  For a standard flush after running the motor, Saltaway on a dispenser on a hose is what I do... that takes about 1/2 a cup.

Some people have never had problems sticking with simple freshwater flushes, some people have. 

Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

AlAdams

I just went to the Saltaway website - they recommend 2-3 oz per gallon of water if you're immersing your lower unit into the water.  Instructions are there for using muffs, immersing etc etc.  I usually just remove my gas line and flush the motor until it runs out of gas - maybe 5 minutes or so.  Saltaway recommends running the engine for 20-30 seconds.  They also recommend not flushing the motor with clean water after using Saltaway. 
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'04 SR 21' w/Skip Tower  '04 Honda 130' '16 Honda 9.9

La-Z-Buoy

Thanks for the extensive narrative TWGT. Some of us just need to be hit of the head sometimes  :shrug9:   :biggrin: . I will set myself up with a half barrel from somewhere (I know you guys have good access to them in the PDX area) down here and see what happens.

Thanks for the responses and the pictures. As said before, pictures do help..........

Just got the baby out of storage. She really looks good in the driveway.  :dance:
Richard

2001 21' Sea Ranger HT
2017 DF 140 Suzuki, Honda 8