Micro wires question

[dbhazjack]

So these tiny wires that connect the VHF radio to the GPS/Chartplotter, how the heck did you make that happen? Standard Horizon and Lowrance is making a big assumption if they think the owner reading the manual has tools on hand for building miniature circuits 

What connectors(tion) did you do?

Blind and Arthritic,
Dave

[DSCS]

I don't have any NMEA 1083 onboard any more, but I do use these for LED connections. I wouldn't use them out in the open, but for in the cuddy or under the dash they hold up just fine.




3M Scotchlok IDC UY2 Connectors, 19-26 AWG 100/Pk

Part #: 599X930 Model #: UY2

3M UY2 IDC Scotchlok Connectors are designed with two ports for straight splicing copper conductor combinations of 19-26 AWG wire. UY2 Connectors are half the size of UR2 connectors to keep splicing bundle to a minimum. "U" contact clamps down on the wire, strips the insulation and grips conductors. Connector is filled with a corrosion-resistant sealant to protect the connection against air and moisture. Gel-Filled Connector is color coded YELLOW. Sold 100/Pack.

Alan

[Wyrguy]

So these tiny wires that connect the VHF radio to the GPS/Chartplotter, how the heck did you make that happen? Standard Horizon and Lowrance is making a big assumption if they think the owner reading the manual has tools on hand for building miniature circuits 

What connectors(tion) did you do?

Blind and Arthritic,
Dave

Hey Dave, I feel your pain... [emoji27]

The solution I came up with was this:







Used a 4" square weather proof rigid PVC electrical junction box. Weather-tight cable gland connectors and a Blue Sea systems terminal strip.
Mounted it in the helm electrical cubby hole, so there's easy access, no 'messy' connections (ie: the crimp ones the Tel guys use!!!) and easy to terminate even for my short stubby arthritic fingers!

Rick


Reluctantly sent from my iPhoney using this crappy Tapatalk app... [emoji37]

[dbhazjack]

Thanks guys.

Rick, weather-tight cable gland connectors???? Sounds like something my urologist uses[emoji85] Got a picture and/or source?

Dave

[Kimbrey]

On my sport boat I just used small butt connectors when I did that particular hook up.  It worked fine but......
While most of the stuff on the ship here in AK runs through either an expander or a multiplexer the electronic techs that do the companies work uses terminal strips similar to this. 
http://store.kvalinc.com/terminal-block-euro-style-159d-series-with-wire-guard-4-poles-12-18-awg-niedax-kleinhuis-p9057.aspx

I'm not sure what Rick is using as I for some reason the satellite system on the ship won't allow the pictures to load.

[Wyrguy]

On my sport boat I just used small butt connectors when I did that particular hook up.  It worked fine but......
While most of the stuff on the ship here in AK runs through either an expander or a multiplexer the electronic techs that do the companies work uses terminal strips similar to this. 
http://store.kvalinc.com/terminal-block-euro-style-159d-series-with-wire-guard-4-poles-12-18-awg-niedax-kleinhuis-p9057.aspx

I'm not sure what Rick is using as I for some reason the satellite system on the ship won't allow the pictures to load.

Kim,  the terminal strips I'm talking about are very similar, however they also allow 'jumper links' to installed between terminal posts if there's several common connections to make.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/Terminal_Blocks

The 'bonus' to using a terminal strip over a 'one time crimp' is that it's easy to terminate, easy to troubleshoot, easy to 're-do' if changing out any of the electronics and its a solid mount, not flopping around hoping the Ty-rap holds it 'neatly'??? . That's why your ship techs use them.

Dave, the term 'cable gland' that I'm used to using (industrial electrician) is what we call them when terminating any of the electronic data/communication cables in mines, mills, etc. It has to provide for 'strain relief' (ie: the cable won't pull out) as well as maintain water or oil ingress protection and be removable and repeatable. Just what I'd want on any of the connections on my boat. I've used the same junction box/terminal strip/cable glands for my bilge pumps & float connections as well as the WeatherPak connectors on the conductors to the pumps and floats.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_gland

As far as the urologist, maybe 'StreamFixer' has some advice???

Rick


Reluctantly sent from my iPhoney using this crappy Tapatalk app... [emoji37]

[dbhazjack]

Excellent, thank you Rick. I looked up the term and saw that they are shown in your pic. Those look huge to me compared the the wires I'm dealing with. What im wondering is how do you attach them to your block? If they were a solid copper wire like telco I could see clamping under the block terminals, but these things have maybe a half dozen copper strands under the insulation that are about the same dia as the 5 hairs on top of my head  Won't they just break off? What are you using for terminal connectors?

I really like the idea of being able to change config easily. Especially since they have provided all of about 6" to work with. And yes, size matters  :arms:

[Wyrguy]

Dave, no comment on the 5 hairs on your head... :arms:

For those small stranded wire,s using just the terminal block screw (even though it is just a #6 screw head) yes, they can splay out and possibly break off. The way I've terminated them is crimped with a nylon insulated (NON heat shrink) 'forked' spade lug. These ones are sized for #22-18 AWG wires.

http://www.ancorproducts.com/en/230303

Why NON heat shrink? Because I use the weatherproof gasket end junction box and the water tight cable connectors, the inside will not need the adhesive lined heat shrink. They also make the smaller sized wires harder to bend/terminate, they're longer than the regular insulated crimps, and also without the heat shrink, I can 'gingerly' cut off the crimp without damaging the wire or having to shorten it.

The cable glands I use, I get through my local friendly electrical wholesaler but I've seen the same ones (or similar) at HomeDepot, Rona, HomeHardware and probably at Lowes (we don't have a Lowes around Victoria)

If you know, or can become 'friendly' with an electrician/electrical contractor, I'm sure that they can get you a big bag of assorted sizes for the same price as any of the above mentioned retailers...!

Rick


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[dbhazjack]

Rick, you ever thought about defecting? We could sure use your talents down here. All I get at Home Depot and Lowe's is a blank stare and a, "no, I don't think we have any of that"!

Thanks Arima Bro's
Dave

[Wyrguy]

Rick, you ever thought about defecting? We could sure use your talents down here. All I get at Home Depot and Lowe's is a blank stare and a, "no, I don't think we have any of that"!

Thanks Arima Bro's
Dave

Hmmmm, get paid in US $$$ instead of CanuckBucks, pay less tax, get to buy (and shoot) guns, give up my universal health care????

Ahhhh, not so much!!!

Now, maybe somebody with a nice shop, well lit & heated, a spare room to sleep in, I come down for a week, fix up a bunch of boats, everybody's happy! [emoji6][emoji41]

So Kimbrey, how's that shop of yours doing???

Rick


Reluctantly sent from my iPhoney using this crappy Tapatalk app... [emoji37]

[dbhazjack]

Hmmmm, get paid in US $$$ instead of CanuckBucks, pay less tax, get to buy (and shoot) guns, give up my universal health care????

Ahhhh, not so much!!!

Now, maybe somebody with a nice shop, well lit & heated, a spare room to sleep in, I come down for a week, fix up a bunch of boats, everybody's happy! [emoji6][emoji41]

So Kimbrey, how's that shop of yours doing???

Rick

I'm all in on that one, I can cover all but the shop including but not limited to, taxes, Obama universe care, plenty of guns and ammo, a room to sleep in and something to help you get to sleep 

Thanks for the advice, I'll be tracking down the supplies you listed along with stronger spectacles and maybe some extra strength Aleve

[T-Rex]

I figured a 30 amp terminal block was a touch much for nmea 0183 VHF to MFD sentencing.

[Kimbrey]

Rick, you ever thought about defecting? We could sure use your talents down here. All I get at Home Depot and Lowe's is a blank stare and a, "no, I don't think we have any of that"!

Thanks Arima Bro's
Dave

Hmmmm, get paid in US $$$ instead of CanuckBucks, pay less tax, get to buy (and shoot) guns, give up my universal health care????

Ahhhh, not so much!!!

Now, maybe somebody with a nice shop, well lit & heated, a spare room to sleep in, I come down for a week, fix up a bunch of boats, everybody's happy! [emoji6][emoji41]

So Kimbrey, how's that shop of yours doing???

Rick


Reluctantly sent from my iPhoney using this crappy Tapatalk app... [emoji37]

It's getting there. I guess they're hanging dry wall in the living area now.  I think the trenching for the finale power and water hook-up is ordered but I'm not sure if it's scheduled.  Hopefully the thing will be done by the time I get home from AK in about a month.

[Wyrguy]

I figured a 30 amp terminal block was a touch much for nmea 0183 VHF to MFD sentencing.

Sean, don't let the 30 amp (or even the smaller terminal strip 20 amp) rating decide. That's a MAXIMUM continuous current rating for those terminals. They also have a MAXIMUM of 300 V AC/DC, but using it for the +/- 5 V, no problem, electrically.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/2404/Terminal_Block_20A_-_4_Circuit

For your install, I'd be more worried that the wires are left unprotected from possible mechanical damage once you've splayed them out from the cable sheath. With an enclosed junction box, internal terminal strip and the cables securely terminated in the cable glands, it would take some gorilla with a BFH to do any damage, not someone trying to store a PFD or tackle box.

  :shrug9

When this 'Pineapple Express' slows down, let me know what ferry you want me to catch...   :arms:   

Rick


Reluctantly sent from my iPhoney using this crappy Tapatalk app... [emoji37]

[T-Rex]

Ok i admit i set myself up pretty good there..thanks for taking it easy on me lol. I should have sealed & secured after confirming everyrhing worked ( my bad ),  i'll do that pretty quick. I do know what your saying about the amp rating ( i went pretty darn big on everything last year to keep it all cool )

But just because i like to be different i was thinking of using the same connectors Suzuki and Navico use for the interface and SIMS/SDS etc to make my final nmea 0813 connection, then i can still unplug it easy, or maybe 4 individual bullets ?  I had to fix one of the interface plugs and kinda like how they fit ( dealer must have really yarded on it to pull the wires ) when they mounted my motor they gave my boat back with one of the plugs ripped almost right off the end.

Since time to get a new cable from them was waaay to long i found my own parts and repaired it ( plus i have a spare SIMS-SDS adapter now)

Since i have 4 wires it would be the 3rd one down on this page, what do you think of these Rick ? Or should i just get 20-24 awg water proof heat shrink butt connectors.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/SM-HM/sm-hm.html

Soldering small stuff like that is a breeze for me, i used to rip XBox's and PS2's apart and do Mod chips lol , and yes i fried a few when i first started  , bridged some connections on these tiny tiny bare copper pads on the board.

I can't type or spell worth a dam but i should be able to fix that connection.

[T-Rex]

Maybe i'll find a lower profile sealed box like yours..i does look bulky but we will see what i can find.
Our S.C.D.A. tech is putting stuff like your box together all the time, maybe i can scrounge something from him.

[First Cabin]

Nice thread guys.  Now I know how I should have done it on my last boat.  Not my problem anymore!

Loving NMEA 2000.

[Threeweight]

I have used the Scotchlok connectors when making the NMEA 0183 connects between radios and chartplotters.  They work great, and some have silicone gel inside the connectors to waterproof the finished product.

[GregE]

Post re wire on ReBait.

The small white buss is the NMEA connection.

[Wyrguy]

I have used the Scotchlok connectors when making the NMEA 0183 connects between radios and chartplotters.  They work great, and some have silicone gel inside the connectors to waterproof the finished product.

Sure find it interesting that you guys would wanna use a product that's intended for SOLID copper conductors, uses the exact same connection method as the Scotchlok 'squeeze' connectors everybody says that they hate for their trailer wiring (and, did I mention that they are designed to used on SOLID copper conductors??? ) that will slice through the insulation AND most likely, most of the fine strands of the wire you're trying to connect to.
Several friends in BC Tel (now Telus) InR and the other telephone guys on here should know how many times those connectors needed to be snipped off and remade, and that was when you're dealing with a way higher ring/tip voltage...



Hmmmm... will they work? Sure will... For how long? Don't know, failure is unpredictable and there's nothing I hate worse than wondering when I'm running in at dark o'clock, or in the fog, or making a PanPan or worse MAYDAY call,  and that's when 'unpredictable' decides the timing is now...

Use whatever product you want to use, scrimp and save as many pennies as you think you can squeeze by with but when someone asks the question, il ALWAYS give an answer that isn't a 'make-do' way to do it.

Rick

ps:
Anybody that wants any electrical advice or help, send me a PM and I'll bend over backwards to help. I'll give my cell #, home email, or I may even drive to where you are and help you.


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[Wyrguy]

Maybe i'll find a lower profile sealed box like yours..i does look bulky but we will see what i can find.
Our S.C.D.A. tech is putting stuff like your box together all the time, maybe i can scrounge something from him.

Sean, definitely get hold of the SCADA guys... They'll have all the smaller (trick) bits and pieces. The box & connectors in the pics I posted earlier are the ones for my bilge pump/float switch. The NEMA connections are in a way smaller box but might not have happened as o didn't take any pictures.

Rick


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[Hydro-Therapy]

  Rick those boxes are great for a solid mount. But what do you use for a QUICK disconnect for these small wires. I like many others can not leave radios and depth finder in the boat all the time . As they tend to grow legs overnight and disappear.

  H-T


P S that connector will  need to be water proof as possible as it will be on the dash board for easy access.

[Threeweight]

The Blue Sea terminal blocks are great, but size-wise not ideal for the tiny stranded wires either.  Where they shine is in connections you will have to take apart again, and stuff that does have some power draw.  Their downside is they leave the wiring exposed to the air, and some of the cheaper plotters use plain copper wiring.

The Scotchloks' do use the same crimp style connection as the trailer connectors, but with the big difference that the nicer ones are sealed with silicone and they are designed for very small wires.

The guy who runs the Panbo marine electronics blog prefers the small plastic terminal blocks Westcoaster used.  Just secure them to something solid.

[T-Rex]

Rick..   i'm in your corner on this,  its probably the most important connections on my boat, the only reason i have nmea 0183 wired is for GPS location from my VHF , so i thank you for pointing out the importance for a proper connector being secured and preferably water tight. If i ever need to push the dreaded red button i want my location broadcast, I could care less about DSC ( my friends don't even know what that is anyways ) or AIS ( maybe i'll find a need for that but right now i'm fine without).

But..i did get my terminal strips from here along with all my larger electrical components and it actually is ABYC approved ( I guess the Panbo guy knew it ), it may be ok...but im gonna make it better with a solid connection and secure it, if i need to cut one day its no biggy.

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_150&products_id=2900

[Threeweight]

This thread reminds me why I hate NMEA 0183 connections.  I don't think there really is a "good" way to do them, short of soldering and heat shrinking them. 

Maybe we will see more radio and plotter makers moving to NMEA 2000 and rendering all of this obsolete.