Author Topic: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR  (Read 6261 times)

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Offline ak-angler

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Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« on: November 12, 2014, 10:02:42 AM »
I've been asked several times to do a write-up on the heater installation in my 17-foot Sea Ranger. Well, I finally went out and snapped a couple of pics...  (You'll have to excuse all the dust and the pile of leaves on the floor. I didn't realize that the wind was blowing all that crud in there like that...)

Here's where I mounted the Webasto AT2000D diesel-fired forced-air furnace, and its simple controls. It's an older unit, and I bought it used on ebay. It's rated at about 6800 BTU's, and when cranked all the way up, it will run almost 16 hours on one gallon of fuel. In this picture, you can also see the insulated exhaust routed up through the shelves behind the heater, and one of the warm air vents mounted on the bulkhead.



I modified a stainless bracket that I had floating around to hold it at an angle because it wouldn't fit horizontally with the big fuel tank in the way, and it's not supposed to be mounted vertically. I thought about mounting it in one of the side shelves, but I didn't want to lose the storage room. Plus, it would have been a real challenge to route the exhaust.



Here's the hot air duct on the v-berth side of the bulkhead. The lower fitting is where the duct comes through the bulkhead from the heater. The 'T' fitting above that is the warm air outlet on the bulkhead above the heater. The duct continues up to the ceiling in the v-berth...



... where it T's off into each of the two defroster ducts ...





... and continues on to a warm air outlet in the starboard side bulkhead, just under the steering wheel. Each of the 4 warm air outlets can be opened or closed to put the heat where it's needed (usually that's some combination of heating the wife and/or the de-fogging the windows).



To fuel the system, I converted a small gas can into a diesel tank and mounted it in the port lazarrette. It's just cinched down with one of those straps that's typically used to secure a battery box. In this picture, the strap isn't secured. I recently had the tank out and hadn't put the strap back on yet.





hmmm... I just realized that I didn't take any pictures of the exhaust through-hull.  I'll see if I can do that tonight after work...

EDIT: Here's a shot of the exhaust through-hull fitting.



Anyways, there you go. One fancy-schmancy super-awesome forced-air heater installed in a 17-foot Sea Ranger. It works great. The wife loves having the warm, dry air blowing on her, and I love being able to clear the fog from the windows.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 06:42:51 PM by ak-angler »
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 10:12:18 AM »
Nice set up AK!!!

I've been giving some thought to installing a Wallas elec. heater.
According to the manufacturers website thy draw on .9amps of current. 

In my case I ruled out the diesel because I already have to carry straight gas for the main and pre-mix for the kicker.  There's no room to carry a 3rd type of fuel!
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 10:57:54 AM »
They do make a gasoline version, but they don't come up on the used market very often. It looks like street price for a new gasoline kit is about $1100 [ebay link]. Comes with basic installation parts like fuel lines, fuel pump, exhaust duct, and controls. Would still need to add in a marine exhaust through-hull, insulation for the HOT exhaust duct, whatever warm air ducting/vents you want, and some kind of mounting bracket (could be fabbed pretty easily). A heater like this is certainly not cheap, but it's a great upgrade if you can swing it.
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Offline Wyrguy

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Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 12:13:58 PM »

I've been giving some thought to installing a Wallas elec. heater.
According to the manufacturers website thy draw on .9amps of current. 


Terry, you might want to re-check that info. Wallas makes diesel and paraffin fired heaters (mainly due to those being a lesser volatile fuel than gasoline) The current draw of 0.9 amps would be for the fuel pump and air fan. If it was an electrical heater at 0.9 amps and 12 volts (nominal) it would equal just over 10 watts... Maybe enough to keep your finger tip warm. :doh:

Rick


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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 01:14:35 PM »
Must havebeen the parafin one then Rick.
I was looking for anything that would not require a 3rd type of fuel onboard.
It seemed to fit the bill.

I want to stop carrying propane and a big buddy heater...just to explosive and I worry about that.
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Offline Peddler

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 02:15:41 PM »
I want to stop carrying propane and a big buddy heater...just to explosive and I worry about that.

How-about a woodstove?   :biggrin:  http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/12/howto/woodstove/index.html

My dad has a small commercially built wood-burning stove in his sailboat.  Burns little scraps of lumber or Presto Logs cut-into discs.
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 02:25:56 PM »
Paraffin = kerosene.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline BruceL2_Fish

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 04:16:10 PM »
Thank you for posting, looks like a great way to go.   I really like the idea of dry heat and clear windows on most mornings heading out.   Darn another project for the list. 

Bruce
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Offline Markshoreline

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 06:34:06 PM »
AK hope you're able to post the exhaust thru hull pics!
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 07:10:01 PM »
Won't be tonight Mark. It was already dark by the time I remembered.

FYI - sunset was at 4:27 pm today. Gotta love winter in Alaska.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 08:39:54 PM »
I know all about it!  Our sunset today was 4:35 pm...
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline SRanger

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2014, 10:15:07 PM »
Can't figure out why no one ever mentions the Wallas 1300 heater?  A little spendy but suppose to be quiet.  The cook top Wryguy mentioned would be nice but no room for that on a 19.

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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 12:01:20 AM »
There's several manufacturers making diesel/kerosene fired forced air heaters these days (Wallas, Webasto, Espar/Eberspacher, Mikuni, and Snugger come to mind, and Toyotomi even used to make 'em, too). And, most manufacturers have several models with different levels of heat output - and different price points. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the Wallas 1300 furnaces in particular, or with Wallas in general (I just installed a Wallas 30DT in my big boat). But, for the money, the Webasto AT2000 is hard to beat. It puts out greater than 50% more heat than the W-1300, and because they're used extensively in the trucking industry, you can usually pick up a used one for a lot less cash than a comparable new Wallas (case in point: search ebay for Webasto heater, and then search for Wallas heater... the difference in results is startling). Plus, the Wallas units are substantially bigger physically than most offerings from the other manufacturers (except maybe Toyotomi), so they are harder to find space for in a small boat.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 06:46:18 PM »
AK hope you're able to post the exhaust thru hull pics!

OK Mark, I added a pic of  the exhaust through-hull to the original post.  :beerchug:
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 07:12:29 PM »
Thanks for going to the trouble of getting a daylight shot, and it is really interesting to see where you placed the exhaust.  If your boat was a hardtop would you put it in the same location?  Seems a bit exposed to taking on a wave right there...
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2014, 07:56:20 PM »
... ummm ... my boat is a hardtop.

But, I'm not sure that the top makes any difference in where the exhaust through-hull is. I angled it so that water has to travel forward and up before it can get into the system. Plus, there's a 'drain' in the lowest part of the exhaust pipe. But, the proof is in the pudding, I suppose. And, I don't believe that I've ever gotten any water through the exhaust into the heater.

So, to answer your question... yes. I'd put it in the same location, no matter what top I had. Although, I thought it might be an issue with the rod holders right there. But so far, it hasn't been an issue.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

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Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 06:01:45 PM »
AK Angler,
Nice set up.  Since seeing your set up I have not stopped thinking about what you did.  I contacted Webasto today and got some more information.  Looking at your photos I have a couple of questions.
1:  What is the coiled up copper looking pipe under your unit?
2:  Why do you have that coiled up pipe above your unit in the storage area?  It looks like extra fuel line.
3:  What did you use for ducting?
Thanks.
Tunacious
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 10:07:19 PM »
1:  What is the coiled up copper looking pipe under your unit?
That's a drain for the exhaust. Since the heater is below the exhaust through-hull, moisture could accumulate in the exhaust without it. The coils act like a p-trap, allowing somewhere for the moisture to go without venting exhaust into the cabin. And it doesn't really get hot, so I could add a hose to the end if I wanted to keep any drips out of the cabin. But it hasn't been an issue thus far.

2:  Why do you have that coiled up pipe above your unit in the storage area?  It looks like extra fuel line.
That's just 'extra' wire for the wiring harness (in split loom). It was my intention to cut it off and get rid of the extra length. Just never got around to it..

3:  What did you use for ducting?
i don't remember where I bought it (probably ebay), but the ducting is 55mm APK duct. It's a three layer structure - cardboard sandwiched between two layers of aluminum foil. If you can find the right size adapters, small diameter flexible dryer vent would probably work too.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

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Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 07:37:15 AM »
Check your local RV supply for ducting...  They might have just what you need...  After all, isn't a boat just an expensive RV???   :shrug9:

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Offline Lamont

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2014, 02:33:41 PM »
Spent this morning at the Pacific Marine Expo.   That furnace is slick.  The pictures don't do justice to just how small it is.  Unfortunately my wife has purses bigger than that.

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2014, 01:29:51 AM »
That's a fact! The Wallas 30Dt I just installed in the big boat is probably 3-4 times bigger (physically) than that little Webasto AT2000, but it only puts out about 50% more heat, and costs twice as much!
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Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2014, 04:54:17 AM »
AK Angler,
Is this a job you did yourself?
How long did it take you to do the install?
Thanks,
Walt
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2014, 09:24:38 AM »
I did both installs myself. Actual installation time isn't that long. The planning seemed to take forever. (Where am I going to mount this...? How am I going to route that...? etc.) I'd say that it could be done in a day, as long as the planning and layout was already done. Maybe a couple of days if you're planning as you go, like I was. Maybe more, if you find other stuff to work on/upgrade along the way, like I did. :hoboy:
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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2014, 10:48:24 AM »
AK...

The thing that bothers me most is exhaust fumes getting windblown back into the cockpt enclosure.
Any thoughts or perspective on that?
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2014, 01:02:34 PM »
SK - what exactly is it that bothers you?
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2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline First Cabin

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2014, 01:28:37 PM »
AK...

The thing that bothers me most is exhaust fumes getting windblown back into the cockpt enclosure.
Any thoughts or perspective on that?

You're thinking that with the exhaust location, it would be possible for the exhaust to be blown back into the cabin enclosure?

From my perspective, that seems extremely unlikely.  First the exhaust gases are going to dilute just inches from the end of the exhaust pipe.  Second, a little heater like that isn't going to generate very much exhaust to start with.  Third, there is no direct line for the exhaust to come back into the cabin.  Fourth, the Arima cockpit itself leaks like a sieve.  It would be difficult to kill yourself in there even if you directly exhausted into it.  I run a Big Buddy heater in the cockpit and it has never shut down from high CO levels.

Just seems like a non-issue to me.

AK - Love the install.  Got my brain a thinking...... :beerchug:
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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2014, 04:55:24 PM »
I think ej answered my thoughts quite well...

Thank you sir!  :applause:

I have a big buddy but have never used it in the boat as I worry about the fumes AND about an explosion from an inknown propane leak.   :hoboy:
Maybe it's just me, I tend to be overly cautious when it comes to life and death.  Non-lethal things...I am MUCH less cautious about.   :facepalm:

Am I crazy or just getting old?
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Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2014, 10:44:04 PM »
AK angler,
I am trying to figure out where I would put the diesel tank. 

I notice your diesel tank has the yellow rear vent opened.  I would suppose the tank has to be vented. 

I was thinking of putting the tank inside one of my seat boxes. 

On my boat where you have your tank I have my auto pilot installed. 

I am not sure but I believe there are rules on how the tank has to be installed and what ever rules there are.

I think the tank has to be able to be filled from outside the boat. 

Anybody have any information on this.
Tunacious
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2014, 08:55:26 AM »
Yes, the tank needs to be vented.

I would think that putting the tank in a seat box would work fine.

There may be some, but I don't know of any specific requirements regarding the installation of a small diesel fuel tank on a boat. I took my installation queues from how the heater manufacturers recommend installing them.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2014, 11:35:05 AM »
I have done quit a bit of research on boat heaters since looking at AK Anglers post of his Webasto heater.

I would like to get away from propane mostly because of the moisture it causes.  Also the nature of propane.

Most, or all, of the bulk head heaters that use kerosene or diesel I have researched all experience some sort of soot problems from time to time.

I can't really find a bulk head heater that has a small foot print like the Webasto.

Besides I think forced air is preferred.

The problem is most of the information out there is coming from yachters who all have larger boats and are of a different sort.

I have found that West Marine wants $3,000 for a Webasto Air Top 2000st which is the newest version of the heater AK Angler has.

I have found several Webasto heaters that appear to be the same thing on Ebay that sell for right around $1,000.  I seen a used one on Ebay for current bid of $500.

I'm not sure if the units on Ebay are the same as the true Webasto Air Top 2000st.  I really don't want to purchase a  knock off.

I have included a link below to Webasto.  I also included a link to West Marine, and a link to Ebay.

If anybody has the inclination to take a look at the three and let me know what they think I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Tunacious

http://www.webasto.com/us/markets-products/truck/heating-systems/products/air-top-2000-st/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Webasto-Air-Top-2000ST-Deisel-Truck-Bunk-Heater-12V-w-install-kit-/151484246324?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item23452a2934&vxp=mtr

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/webasto--air-top-2000-st-diesel-cabin-heater-kit--12634663
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2014, 12:09:32 PM »
As far as I can tell, the heater itself is the same in both the West Marine kit and the eBay kit you linked to. The accessories included with each kit are different. For instance, the WM unit has a marine through-hull exhaust fitting, exhaust drain, and more hose and vents. And, the controls are different as well. That said, I can't imagine that the additional accessories are worth $2k in additional cost.  :shrug9:
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

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Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2014, 12:29:26 PM »
There are several on Ebay to choose from.  I just picked one.  I will have to look but maybe  some of them are more similar to West Marine.
Tunacious
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2014, 12:49:12 PM »
AK Angler,

Does the unit itself get hot?  What do you think of the location I am suggesting?

I have measured up my Arima and looked at the dimensions of the Webasto AT 2000st.

I am thinking the best place to put it is inside the top shelf pictured below with the fuel tank in the bottom shelve below it.

I know the fuel tank won't be very big but it will be out of the way and easy to access.

The down fall is I will be loosing the storage.
Tunacious

2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2014, 01:37:25 PM »
The unit doesn't get noticeably hot.

One problem I see with putting it in the upper shelf is routing the exhaust. The exhaust comes out of the bottom of the heater, and it is hot. I wouldn't want it routed next to the fuel tank that you plan on putting in the lower shelf, even if the exhaust is insulated (which I highly recommend). If you put the heater up high, above the top shelf, it looks like you would have room to route the exhaust out the side without needing to go through the upper shelf.

By the way - these are the same issues I was wrestling with when I was installing mine. There's not an 'obvious' good spot to mount it. Like many things on boats, and boats in general, each location is a compromise. I looked at installing it in the rear, next to where I mounted the fuel tank, but the heat loss from the duct being in the cockpit was an issue. I also looked at mounting it on the port side bulkhead in the v-berth, too. That might be a spot to look at...

1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2014, 08:20:34 PM »
I have a question about venting diesel fumes out of my boat if  where to install a webasto heater.

Its 8:00 PM and dark.  I just came in from crawling around in my boat with a flash light.  I really want to install one of these webasto heaters.

I am trying to decide where to mount this heater and the fuel tank.

I have no room for the diesel tank in the back of the boat.  On one side of the boat are my batteries and on the other side is my onboard battery charger and the auto pilot.

My options are to move my batteries up front like some of you have.  With a hard top I really don't need to move the batteries for the same reasons as most of you. (to disperse the weight)

The other option is to place a small 2 gallon fuel tank on one of the shelves in the cabin area.

If I do this I am wondering if I can tie a vent hose from my yet to be figured out diesel tank into the same vent hose that my saddle tank uses.

My saddle tank has a vent hose that vents to the outside of the boat.  I would just add a T to the vent hose and vent my diesel tank into the same vent tube already there from my saddle tank.

I would not want the diesel fumes to somehow condensate and drip back into the gas tank for the boat.

What are your thoughts??    :shrug9:

Thanks
Tunacious
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:23:54 PM by Tunacious »
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Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2014, 10:56:08 PM »
I wouldn't try to connect to the gas vent. When fueling, the diesel/gasoline you're pumping can fill the vent line and dump fuel into the other tank. That wouldn't be good for either system...

What kind of tank are you looking at? If you don't want to install another through-hull vent, could you run the diesel vent back to the cockpit, maybe under the gunnel?
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2014, 07:52:34 AM »
Good idea on running the vent to the back of the boat.  I don't have a tank figured out yet.  It is going to be in one of the places you suggest because that is really the only choices.  If I put it in the v-berth on the port side, How noisy is it, in case I was wanting to sleep in there with the thing running.
Tunacious
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2014, 08:56:47 AM »
Everything is noisy when I'm trying to sleep! HA!

But, seriously... both the volume and the quality of 'noise' is fairly subjective. That said, in my opinion the noise isn't harsh (basically just white noise), but the Webasto isn't exactly silent, either. In fact, your concern about noise while sleeping is why I mounted it where I did instead of inside the v-berth. But, to be totally honest, I never sleep with it running overnight - even during the winter. If I had realized that earlier, I would have mounted it in the v-berth. But, some things are learned by doing.

If you're committed to the install, you could always buy the heater and fire it up in the garage (or wherever) to see if the noise is going to be an issue for mounting in the berth.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Tunacious

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2014, 04:45:39 PM »
Purchased my used Webasto Air Top 2000 st today.
Found a used one for $500.
Another project to finish this winter.
Tunacious
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2014, 10:14:06 PM »
Congrats and keep us informed on the project!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline BruceL2_Fish

Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2014, 05:43:00 AM »
 :yeahthat:
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline ak-angler

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Re: Webasto AT2000 heater in 17SR
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2015, 10:53:58 AM »
Purchased my used Webasto Air Top 2000 st today.
Found a used one for $500.
Another project to finish this winter.
Tunacious
Any updates on your heater project?
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's