More radar questions

[strokersquid]

Looking at radar. The 21 HT came with a HDS 5 lowrance and if i am reading correctly this should take a lowrance radar fine.  Looks like about $1200 for the radar with no screen . I like the look and description of the Garmins but i would need to get a Garmin gps of some sort to plug the radar into so the minimal cost would be about $620 cheapest Garmin radar 18" unit and also a gps unit ( cost ? ). Anybody running either one of these ?

[redbaronace]

I am running the Garmin 740s and the Garmin GMR 18" Dome.  The screen is 7" and radar does a good job with showing items in fog which is the primary use of it for us.  Amazing how much you can see using radar when your eyes cannot due to fog.  We were traveling with another boat who had departed ahead of us toward Hood Canal.  They got caught up in fog and nearly collided with another boat.  They were so shaken by the experience, that they decided to just wait for us to catch up and then they followed us.  As we traveled through the fog around 15 MPH, I relayed other boats positions to the following boat (ex, boat at 2 O Clock headed toward you still 100 yards away). 

We could see all the other boats around us on the radar screen. Most were small and of the fishing variety.  Since most of them were not aware of our position so we still needed to avoid them.

Overall, I think there are better setups than what we have, but our setup was around $1100 used and we are overall happy with it. 

[beancounter]

I run a Garmin 4208 with 18" hd radar. I would not want smaller than my 8" screen when I am splitting it for radar and plotter. Works very nice and has saved my butt on a few trips when the fog rolled in and 35 miles from the dock.

[DSCS]

I've never used a Garmin radar and do have experience with Lowrance radar on Lowrance and Simrad plotters. Just wanted to put that out front in case I start sounding like a fanboy. Trying not to do that.

Like I mentioned in the other thread Navico uses variable tone technology for their Broadband radars. Orders of magnitude less power transmitted which for me equates to a much safer environment for crew and passengers. Less power out also means less power in and less drain on your electrical system. I took a quick look at Garmin on the net and see that all of their HD radars list their output in kilowatts so I am assuming that they all use pulse technology.

The variable tone technology also lends better close in target discrimination. I can see boats coming out through the gate at Everett marina and the individual docks, it's not all blended together in a blob.

As beancounter said a 5" screen is pretty small to try to split for radar and plotter. Of course it's highly likely that your eyesight is much better than mine.     Both Navico and Garmin are able to overlay radar on the chart display so you could see radar and chart on the same page.  Garmin wins this one in that you can choose to use GPS course as your reference for overlay alignment. Navico requires a heading sensor feeding into the system. Navico also requires the  heading sensor for MARPA to work, not sure about Garmin.

Garmin makes some great stuff and has a lot of happy users. Not putting any of their gear down. I just firmly believe that the Navico Broadband is the hands down winner for collision avoidance and close in navigation.

BTW I happen to know an HDS8 first generation is going to be going up for sale soon.  :smile1:

Alan

[LvrWurst 21 SR Skip]

Squidder re: DCCS notes on Lowrance. My guide friend uses the Lowrance HDS and Lowrance Radar....I've seen the overlays combined with the radar and it is awsome to me. I am not really that familiar with radar so this is just a gee whiz comment. Butt, with as much time as you spend on the SF Bay and out the gate....I wouldn't scrimp on the bucks. Summer is coming...and with that the FOG. When you need it....you really need it! Talk to your wife about it.....women really love having extra insurance. Oh, my...now that was really sexist of me.....but if she buys it....done deal...you'll be happy and she will worry less about your safety.
Respectfully submitted, J W

[strokersquid]

I am running the Garmin 740s and the Garmin GMR 18" Dome.  The screen is 7" and radar does a good job with showing items in fog which is the primary use of it for us.  Amazing how much you can see using radar when your eyes cannot due to fog.  We were traveling with another boat who had departed ahead of us toward Hood Canal.  They got caught up in fog and nearly collided with another boat.  They were so shaken by the experience, that they decided to just wait for us to catch up and then they followed us.  As we traveled through the fog around 15 MPH, I relayed other boats positions to the following boat (ex, boat at 2 O Clock headed toward you still 100 yards away). 

We could see all the other boats around us on the radar screen. Most were small and of the fishing variety.  Since most of them were not aware of our position so we still needed to avoid them.

Overall, I think there are better setups than what we have, but our setup was around $1100 used and we are overall happy with it.

was this the regular 18 or the HD ?

[Red 22]

Just ordered the HD 18 ( $ 984 @ Hodges) for the extra Dollars I thought the HD has  more separation clarity. 

[strokersquid]

Squidder re: DCCS notes on Lowrance. My guide friend uses the Lowrance HDS and Lowrance Radar....I've seen the overlays combined with the radar and it is awsome to me. I am not really that familiar with radar so this is just a gee whiz comment. Butt, with as much time as you spend on the SF Bay and out the gate....I wouldn't scrimp on the bucks. Summer is coming...and with that the FOG. When you need it....you really need it! Talk to your wife about it.....women really love having extra insurance. Oh, my...now that was really sexist of me.....but if she buys it....done deal...you'll be happy and she will worry less about your safety.
Respectfully submitted, J W

wife is ok with it since i still make money and she can bump me off when i retire and collect the same insurance 
the cost is not a huge concern but space in the cockpit is limited
seems like the HDS 5 that Chuck has would not be big enough since Lowrance does not overlay the gps so a new gps is in order ( Chuck has an Elite 7 gps but i don't think this is radar compatable )  if i use lowrance. in that case any savings from using existing lowrance gps and getting only the radar dome is lost. Cheapest Lowrance radar is about $1200 without gps screen and cheapest Garmin dome ( 18" non HD ) seems to be just under $700 leaving a lot of room for a gps screen. The HD 18" dome is about $1000, but i do not know what improvement over the " regular" 18" dome this represents.
i just need the ability to get under the GG and out in a busy shipping channel when the fog rolls in, i do not plan to be in fog a lot

[strokersquid]

Just ordered the HD 18 ( $ 984 @ Hodges) for the extra Dollars I thought the HD has  more separation clarity.

same thinking i have but i wish i knew somebody who already has one in use. Possibly could pick up crab buoys in the fog ?

[redbaronace]

I am running the Garmin 740s and the Garmin GMR 18" Dome.  The screen is 7" and radar does a good job with showing items in fog which is the primary use of it for us.  Amazing how much you can see using radar when your eyes cannot due to fog.  We were traveling with another boat who had departed ahead of us toward Hood Canal.  They got caught up in fog and nearly collided with another boat.  They were so shaken by the experience, that they decided to just wait for us to catch up and then they followed us.  As we traveled through the fog around 15 MPH, I relayed other boats positions to the following boat (ex, boat at 2 O Clock headed toward you still 100 yards away). 

We could see all the other boats around us on the radar screen. Most were small and of the fishing variety.  Since most of them were not aware of our position so we still needed to avoid them.

Overall, I think there are better setups than what we have, but our setup was around $1100 used and we are overall happy with it.

was this the regular 18 or the HD ?

Stroker,
Mine is the regular 18 not the HD model.  The dome was purchased used from craigslist last year for $430.  The plotter (740s) was purchased used for $600.  I did need to purchase an additional cable for around $60 to make it all work.  Total cost for Radar / Plotter was around $1100.  This was a good purchase for us as our fish finder/plotter was old and broken so it needed to be replaced anyways.

While I can agree that 7" is pretty small screen for radar, it was all we could fit in the allocated space on our console.  When we are using Radar, its when we are enroute to a destination and only being used for seeing other boats out there.  Therefore, we do not need that screen for fish finding or navigation.   For our maps, we use an iPad with built in GPS to chart our way to the destination.  It is much larger screen and mounted on a Ram mount on suction cup.  This keeps the map right in front of our face and the radar right below for quick object checks.

I cannot compare the HD version to our regular version.  I can say that what we have is good enough for our uses and really glad to have it when dusk hits or the fog rolls in.

[redbaronace]

And not to mention another huge benefit of radar is that it allows bigger boats to SEE YOU on the water.

To the big vessels out there, we are like a small log drifting on the water.

[Threeweight]

No experience with Lowrance radar, but I run an HDS 5 on my boat along with a Raymarine unit with a larger screen.

IMO, the 5" screen is too small to be much use for anything other than a dedicated radar display.  If you can afford it, I'd look into an HDS 7.

[strokersquid]

I do not have a problem using the HDS 5 as a designated radar screen when I use the radar since I have an elite 7 as well. I think chuck was using the 5 for sonar/fishfinding and the ellite 7 as a chartplotter. I don't think you can plug in  radar on an elite 7 though.
yes I would only want it to get around in fog at low speeds so you think the Garmin 18 "regular" can do that well?

[Threeweight]

As a dedicated unit, the Lowrance HDS would work fine.  I use the one on my boat as a dedicated chart plotter, but when needed I can swap over and display engine data or sonar info.

The Garmin radar would likely also work fine for your needs... 5-6 years ago it was top of the line technology.  The latest digital "HD" radars just show a bit more detail, and draw a bit less power.  We only use the Garmin one on the Stabi in pea soup fog, but it does great for spotting boats, navigation buoys, jetties, etc... at close range (under a couple miles.)

[redbaronace]

I do not have a problem using the HDS 5 as a designated radar screen when I use the radar since I have an elite 7 as well. I think chuck was using the 5 for sonar/fishfinding and the ellite 7 as a chartplotter. I don't think you can plug in  radar on an elite 7 though.
yes I would only want it to get around in fog at low speeds so you think the Garmin 18 "regular" can do that well?

Yes, it performs well in the fog. 

[wedocq]

Sorry it took so long to get a pic up. I already had my radar mounted when Salt Boss made my rocket launcher, so I kept it separate.
-Shawn

[Kimbrey]

And not to mention another huge benefit of radar is that it allows bigger boats to SEE YOU on the water.

To the big vessels out there, we are like a small log drifting on the water.

???????????????????
I don't think that is correct.  The radar will allow "YOU" to see the larger boats. 
You are correct it is hard for the larger boats (ships etc) to see you.  You can get lost in the sea clutter on their screens.

[strokersquid]

Sorry it took so long to get a pic up. I already had my radar mounted when Salt Boss made my rocket launcher, so I kept it separate.
-Shawn

looks like the important thing is to get the radar above the rocket launchers and such. Any idea how much higher than the clutter is needed ? what about the antenna for the vhs radio ? or does it just show as a line on the screen ?

[strokersquid]

I am running the Garmin 740s and the Garmin GMR 18" Dome.  The screen is 7" and radar does a good job with showing items in fog which is the primary use of it for us.  Amazing how much you can see using radar when your eyes cannot due to fog.  We were traveling with another boat who had departed ahead of us toward Hood Canal.  They got caught up in fog and nearly collided with another boat.  They were so shaken by the experience, that they decided to just wait for us to catch up and then they followed us.  As we traveled through the fog around 15 MPH, I relayed other boats positions to the following boat (ex, boat at 2 O Clock headed toward you still 100 yards away). 

We could see all the other boats around us on the radar screen. Most were small and of the fishing variety.  Since most of them were not aware of our position so we still needed to avoid them.

Overall, I think there are better setups than what we have, but our setup was around $1100 used and we are overall happy with it.

was this the regular 18 or the HD ?

Stroker,
Mine is the regular 18 not the HD model.  The dome was purchased used from craigslist last year for $430.  The plotter (740s) was purchased used for $600.  I did need to purchase an additional cable for around $60 to make it all work.  Total cost for Radar / Plotter was around $1100.  This was a good purchase for us as our fish finder/plotter was old and broken so it needed to be replaced anyways.

While I can agree that 7" is pretty small screen for radar, it was all we could fit in the allocated space on our console.  When we are using Radar, its when we are enroute to a destination and only being used for seeing other boats out there.  Therefore, we do not need that screen for fish finding or navigation.   For our maps, we use an iPad with built in GPS to chart our way to the destination.  It is much larger screen and mounted on a Ram mount on suction cup.  This keeps the map right in front of our face and the radar right below for quick object checks.

I cannot compare the HD version to our regular version.  I can say that what we have is good enough for our uses and really glad to have it when dusk hits or the fog rolls in.

I am also intrigued about using a run of the mill ipad with gps as a chart plotter. Is that the $49 ap ? I would think in a HT the likleyhood of the ipad getting wet is low so this would work for a gps and the screen would be so much bigger than the marine units. Can you set waypoints and all with the ipad ?

[wedocq]

I have the VHF antenna laying down in the pic. I am currently moving it the rocket launcher to get it a little higher. It looks like the radar is higher than the rocket launcher, but it really isn't.  So I guess if someone is overtaking me from behind in the fog, I might not get a clear picture of him. 
-Shawn

[wedocq]

I would think in a HT the likleyhood of the ipad getting wet is low so this would work for a gps and the screen would be so much bigger than the marine units. Can you set waypoints and all with the ipad ?

The likelihood of things getting wet under the hard top is a lot higher than you think! All it would take is one random spray of saltwater from the wash down pump, and that Ipad is toast.

[Threeweight]

The main reason to use a mount like Shawn's is to get the dome above the eyeball level of passengers in the boat.  An old-fashioned, high power burst of microwaves from the radar is no-bueno for your eyes 

[Kimbrey]

The main reason to use a mount like Shawn's is to get the dome above the eyeball level of passengers in the boat.  An old-fashioned, high power burst of microwaves from the radar is no-bueno for your eyes 

I think that's how they figured out microwave ovens. In the lab a Ratheon engineer was working on a wave guide which is a part of of radar. He had a candy bar in his shirt pocket. :bigshock:Voila!! The microwave oven was born. Or I think that's how the story goes.

[strokersquid]

I do not have a problem using the HDS 5 as a designated radar screen when I use the radar since I have an elite 7 as well. I think chuck was using the 5 for sonar/fishfinding and the ellite 7 as a chartplotter. I don't think you can plug in  radar on an elite 7 though.
yes I would only want it to get around in fog at low speeds so you think the Garmin 18 "regular" can do that well?

Yes, it performs well in the fog.

how do you keep the ipad dry ? are you using the apple app that is something like $49 ? I saw this on the app store but didn't trust it to be my actual map. does it have chart plotting or waypoint ability ? I would love that large screen map that you would get with an ipad.

[Threeweight]

Re: Ipad/Android apps... you want the Navionics standard (not HD) mapping app.  It has US maps available that cover the entire country.

For keeping your Ipad/Android tablet dry in the boat, look into an Otterbox cover (water resistant, impact proof):

http://www.otterbox.com/apple-ipad-cases/apple-ipad-cases,default,sc.html

Or a lifeproof case (water proof, not as impact resistant):

http://www.lifeproof.com/en/