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Help with fish ID ?

Started by croaker stroker, January 10, 2014, 12:18:29 PM

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croaker stroker

I have come to recognize fish on my FF, but the marks don't look anything like what you see in the examples that the manufacturers show.

When you see those advertisements for the Finders, the marks always look like nice clean commas.

Mine look like this....wormy squiggles...here is an image of fish suspended above the bottom.  ??


1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Danno

Looks to me like shadow interference because it matches the signal from the bottom.
2015 19' Sea Chaser (2019 to current)
1998 19' Sea Ranger (2003 to 2008)

Lures are designed to catch fishermen not fish.

Threeweight

What Danno said, those are not feeesh.  Sensitivity may be too high on the sonar, try adjusting it down.  I'd also make sure it is set for saltwater and the depth you are working (if the option is there), and turn off any surface clutter and noise reduction features it has. 

Re: getting clear arches... the size/shape of the arches have as much to do with the cone of the transducer and how fast or slow fish are moving through it than it does anything else.   They need to be moving through the cone at a reasonable clip to display an arch, otherwise you get a blob.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

ak-angler

The squiggles do basically match the image of the bottom. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's not a fish. I think we need more info.

Are you moving, stationary, or drifting?
How was the water that day... lots of wave action lifting and settling the boat, or rocking side to side?


If you were moving really slow, stopped, or drifting, and the waves were tossing the boat to and fro, and a fish swam slowly through the sonar signal, that may be exactly what is shown on the screen.

If you were cruising in calm water, and the bottom contour actually matches what's shown in that picture, it's probably an odd echo, or maybe something like a kelp bed.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

fishorcrab

AK is onto something.  Where waves exist, the distance to the bottom or to fish varies according to the height of the wave at the part of the boat where the transducer is mounted regardless of how the unit is set up. This is best recognized with large swells some distance apart. 

All that being said, I can't keep the fish ID turned off long enough to learn to read the raw data reliably. She Who Must Be Obeyed, (SWMBO) likes to see the orange fish icons with their weight (or jersey number) next to them.  I've pointed out to her that that only applies in Australia which is native habitat for Orange Roughy fish that can be seen in the grocery store where the weight (or jersey number) is imprinted on the package with the fish.  :whistle:

Paul
SC16 Yamaha 4s 90
SP17 Honda 4s 90  - Croaker made me do it. :)

croaker stroker

Quote from: ak-angler on January 10, 2014, 03:02:20 PM



If you were moving really slow, stopped, or drifting, and the waves were tossing the boat to and fro, and a fish swam slowly through the sonar signal, that may be exactly what is shown on the screen.



Bingo !  Except the fish are probably not swimming much...just suspended above the reef while we drift slowly over them. Boat bouncing and rocking in 2' wind chop., 3' swell.

If you look closely, the thick red colored band is rocks....the green scattered just above the red is something else like kelp or fish.  The suspended green squiggle with a little bit of red is a larger fish.

Is there no adjustment to smooth out the bumps ?  Maybe "Paper" speed ??   Or, is this the best I can expect ?
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Salmon King

1.  What brand and model is your unit?

2.  What is the frequency of your transducer?

3.  If possible you should set your "Scroll Speed" to max. and Adjust your Ping rate to maybe X2.

4.  Adjust your sensitivity to MAX and then back it down until the screen just starts to clear out (on my Lowrance HDS7 that setting would be in the low 80% range).  This setting will change frequently as your location changes from one location to another....especially if you enter an area with a higher concentration of fresh water like a river mouth.

5. Sometimes it helps to change the pallet to another color combination if you can do that. 

For me...now that I have my unit set properly I can not only see the fish as nice arches (when they are nice enough to transverse the cone completely) but  I can even estimate what size the bait is (and be reasonably accurate) by changing the transducer frequency. 

I don't know if this helps you but I know these things worked for me.

S.K.
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
2011 14' Sterling
9' Pontoon (Bismarck)
8' Pontoon (Hood)

fishorcrab

CS,

I would experiment with the chart speed.  If the chart is moving faster, the wave bumps are farther apart and it might be easier to interpret. Another thing to try is setting the maximum depth rather than letting the unit set it automatically. That can reduce the difference from top to bottom of the bumps. It might make reading a depth accurately more difficult but could make it easier to understand what you are seeing.

This book helped me understand better what I was seeing although I am definitely no expert.  It has a good section on understanding what your fish finder is trying to tell you.
http://www.amazon.com/Sturgeon-Lingcod-Rockfish-Halibut-Pacific/dp/1571884211

I would like to have some time with an underwater camera down near the indicated fish/bottom but what time I get, I am usually desperately trying to catch something.  Where is all that time I was promised when I retired.  :shrug9:
SC16 Yamaha 4s 90
SP17 Honda 4s 90  - Croaker made me do it. :)

croaker stroker


SalmonKing, My unit is a Humminbird 788ciHD and the transducer is a 83/200.  Not sure if I have a "ping rate adjustment". Gotta read the manual.

Good point Fishorcrab, you can see on the close up view (bottom lock) that the "bumps" are exaggerated more than on the 120' side.  Maybe if I come off "auto" and set it on 300' depth when fishing 100' ??



1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker


I found the "pings per second" adjustment in the manual, but it only applies to recordings to the SD card.  :shrug9:
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Kimbrey

Something isn't quite right.  On your "bottom lock" part of the screen the bottom should be displayed in a straight line.
Or:
--The bottom lock is working correctly but all the up and down stuff is feed and or plant life above where the sounder is seeing bottom.  If you look on your right hand screen you can see where the bottom lock bracket is.  Inside this bracket is what is displayed on the left screen so 0 is down in the middle of the red. 
--It would be interesting to turn on the white line feature if the unit has that to see what the sounder sees at bottom.

The squiggles almost look like your sinker or a down rigger ball.

You might have the gain too high.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth—Sold—replaced with 28' Farallon Walkaround

ak-angler

Quote from: Kimbrey on January 10, 2014, 06:00:49 PM
Something isn't quite right.  On your "bottom lock" part of the screen the bottom should be displayed in a straight line.

That's a good point, Kimbrey. The 'bottom lock' should show as a straight line, with the bottom at 'zero' and height off the bottom increasing upward, like the examples below.



1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

ak-angler

#12
Hmmmm.... I just spent a few minutes going through the owner's manual for your unit, and I don't see any setting for 'bottom lock'. I do see 'bottom view', but that appears to be more of a 'zoom to range' setting than a traditional flat-line bottom lock like the pictures I posted above.  :shrug9:


EDIT: Found it. Page 101. It says that the 'bottom lock' feature should flatten out the bottom contour. And, obviously, your's isn't doing that. Maybe a call to the manufacturer is in order.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

croaker stroker


OK, back to the manual...

The left hand window is actually a "Zoom" feature.  (Between the brackets)

There is a separate function called "bottom lock" which I can switch on or off.  I bet it is switched off. 

I'll have to check it next time out ??   I would think since it says "bottom lock" at the bottom of the screen, it would be switched "on".  But maybe not.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker

#14
Oops.  AK, you beat me to the draw.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

ak-angler

Cool. Definitely try that BL setting the next time you're out.  :beerchug:
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

croaker stroker

#16
The collective knowledge on this site is awsome.  Thanks for all the input.



Point of interest....the bottom hardness shows up inverted in the center image with bottom lock on.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

LvrWurst 21 SR Skip

Croaker....Cool..really good stuff posted.
That HumBird should be a really good unit. I've had both side by side with Furuno & Lowrance and the Hummer works just fine. We never use Fish I.D. as I understand it takes away from what you see on the screen .....we set Ping speed  to accomodate our various speeds.....faster is better. We keep the sensitivity in the 72-80% range. Most of our fishing is in the 8'-30' depth using 200K. If running two DF's/ transducers they need to be set at different k's otherwise they conflict.

My issue with Depth Finders altogether, is I can't tell which way the fish are going....left or right  :party:
¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>«(((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>«(((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>«(((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>«(((º>«(((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>«(((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.
Just my two cents....JW.

PS if your DF is updatable thru a local shop...do it and get a second opinion on your pallette choice and setting for where you fish. This really helps.
19' Jetcraft  Like new 115 Yami 4 Stroke 
SOLD  16 Sea Explorer - 17 SR Skip -19 SR Skip - 21 SR Skip

German Sausages are the WURST!

croaker stroker

#18
I have been using fish finders since those circular flashers in the '70's.  I had a very good early Lowrance 1510? Gray line Paper recorder which worked pretty good.  I had a huge bronze thru hull transducer which weighed several pounds mounted on the Skipjack. GPS was not yet available, so we used separate Loran-C units for navigation. And....the Polaris NC-7200 which was one of the best additions and useful for finding the tuna fleet. (No cell phones then, so they had to use the VHF to communicate)

The HB is pretty good and works fine for me. So simple and compact compared to what we used in the "old days". It has the fish-n-chips SD card which gives a great image of the bottom on the GPS mode.  I don't pay too much attention to the fish marks because I am looking for structure.  Many times I see fish on the screen and no bites. Then there are other times when there are no fish shown and we catch limits. I turn the fish ID and fish alarm off.

When fishing for Lings...... No structure = No fish

PS...I can update on the Internet using an SD card. Then just plug the card into the unit to update. (Last time I checked, I was up to date.)
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

StreamFixer

I'm not too sure, but the one the left looks a lot like Fred....  Might be Jerry though....

StreamFixer
'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu

croaker stroker

#20
Quote from: StreamFixer on January 11, 2014, 10:55:39 AM
I'm not too sure, but the one the left looks a lot like Fred....  Might be Jerry though....

StreamFixer


I think you might be looking at them sideways.

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Threeweight

IMO, that is not wave action (unless the fish were swimming along trying to match your exact speed and direction).  Fish marked over a rocky spire on a slow drift should look like this:



I think you have the sensitivity set too high, and/or the noise reduction and clutter features of the unit are causing a bottom ghost.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

croaker stroker


No. Mine are fish. And they are HUGE.   :jester:
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker


Just trying to boost my posting count above yours.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸