Author Topic: Downrigger's from Definace  (Read 3420 times)

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Offline 2New

Downrigger's from Definace
« on: January 09, 2014, 07:37:42 PM »
I stopped at Defiance Marine today and bought my downriggers, scotty 1106 electric, with 60”,  boom, swivel mount.  The 1106 has automatic stop.  I guess you can have your DR’s stop where it is to your liking by adjusting a movable piece on the cable.
As CompTime mentioned, I will install the weight retriever cords, seems like a good idea.  I went with the 15 lb balls.  I was told 12 or 15 pound for the type of fishing I will be doing and that more weight would be better than less.   I guess these scotty’s are good for up to 20 lbs.  Definace is putting a hook on the base of the boom to hang the ball on when traveling out on the water.  When trailering the boat, I will secure the balls in a holder.
I have an appointment with Definace on Febuary 1st , to install and wire DR’s.  While I am there I will have them check my battery/battery switch wiring to make sure everything is the way it should be.  Don’t want any problems out on the water!... :fishing:

Dean

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 09:55:04 PM »
Dean,
While the Scotties will pull 15lb, the repair person at Outdoor Emporium recommends to stick with 12 lbs so there is less drain on the boat's electrical system, so that's what I stick with.
Those 60" booms should get the balls way out there!   :arms:
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline GregE

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 10:10:38 PM »
Good for you-  going to a good source.  (If you don't know cars, know your mechanic) 

It may feel costly but Defiance  can finance   :biggrin:
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline Tom Mac

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 06:30:35 AM »
Dean,
While the Scotties will pull 15lb, the repair person at Outdoor Emporium recommends to stick with 12 lbs so there is less drain on the boat's electrical system, so that's what I stick with.
Those 60" booms should get the balls way out there!   :arms:

I'm with Mark on this, have spare fuses on board. And at 60 inches with 15lb balls that's a lot of weight on the gunnels. But bigger the balls the less blow back witch is good.
1991 Sea Ranger 17, 2014 F90 Yamaha, 2008 T8 Yamaha

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 07:03:37 AM »
Tm
Do you run the older Scottie's?
How do the perform hauling up the ball with the 15 compared to the 12?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 09:22:26 AM by markshoreline »
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Kimbrey

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 07:25:37 AM »
I have those.  I have had them three years or maybe more, I forget.  When I first got them I extended the boom a few times and now I just don't bother with it.  I've been using 15lb weights the past couple of years with no problems.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Offline pescadore

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 07:30:24 AM »
Using 12 lb balls are a real treat. Even 10 lbs may be enough when summer fishing, as the big Chinook come into shallow water. But most of the year, and certainly in the winter, we use 15lbs. I have a friend who uses 20s, and the lines are nice and steep, but the downriggers sure seem to groan.   

Also it may be worth mentioning that Scotty calls for 12g marine wire for run lengths less than 25'.  (10g if longer). But I opted for 10g anyway, under the principal that bigger is better.

Offline AlAdams

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 08:10:04 AM »
I have the older Scotties and typically run 15lb weights.  My only recommendation would be to have them serviced on a regular basis to make sure the brake and clutch are adjusted correctly.  Once out of adjustment those heavy weights are a nightmare as you're trying to stop a free falling ball.  There is a way to do it yourself if you're out fishing and your downrigger starts acting up.  I think Scotty recommends 40lbs of tension on the brake.  I've used my digital scale to get it close - adjusting the nuts until the brake starts releasing at 40lbs.  Then I take it to Tom at Sportco (or your authorized repair place) for fine tuning.  I think the procedure is in the Scotty manual although I've lost my manuals and can't verify that now.
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Offline GutZ

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 01:12:15 PM »
You are going to want to have some long releases with those arms. I am currently rigging mine on 100# leader. The ones I use are a  :arms: fathom long. Get a crimper set and rig your own. The Scotty releases with the chartreuse head are the ones to go with. Be aware that there are two setting on them. You will usually want to use the setting furthest back.

Cable? I hope you mean Braid!
It's always good to have a plan.
It's always better to have a good plan.

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 08:06:54 PM »
I'm with GutZ on the homemade release cables and the Scotty releases.  I also use a BIG snap swivel to connect to the downrigger ball.  Used to use 6 footers, now mine are just long enough to get up to the rod holder so I can pull it up once and lock it in there while I'm getting my gear ready to hook up.
Also, I use 300-400 lb leader because I can lift it with my naked hand and not get cut by it due to the larger leader it also survives the occasional trips into the prop and scrapes on the bottom.  So buy the big crimp set that fits the big leader.  2New, if you need enough leader for a couple of sets I can send you some if you let me know.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline 2New

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 08:08:07 PM »
Good advise all, Defiance say's 15lbs are ok but maybe I should go 12lbs.MMMMMM what to do?
    Have spare fuses , will do.
    I will keep check on the clutch and brake adjustment, thanks.
    I got 60" releases from Defiance and will learn to make my own.
    Gutz on the Sea Kitten, 2New doesn't know if he has cable or braided . Guess I got whatever comes with the Scottys.

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 08:25:27 PM »
Not sure Defiance is the place this question should be answered. They are boat builders, nothing wrong with that but talking to the Scotty service reps is the ideal place.


Just say-in



SFF
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 09:01:38 PM by Seattleflyfisher »

Offline 2New

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2014, 08:51:29 PM »
SFF, your right,  talking to the scotty reps before I spend over 100 bucks for 2, 15lb ball's  makes good sense.

Offline PNW Pride

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 08:57:23 PM »
10g wire, Scotty high speed cable, weight retrieve cord, blue snubbers, 60" Scotty quick release to 15lb ball and your set.  I also recommend the Cannon terminal gear with the plastic snap, be sure to check the cable for kinks and cut off 1-4' every year. :twocents:
21' Sea Ranger/Honda 150HP

Offline Tom Mac

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 09:10:47 PM »
Tm
Do you run the older Scottie's?
How do the perform hauling up the ball with the 15 compared to the 12?

I do run the older Scotties with 60 inch booms (never have needed to use them extended), but I only run 10 and 12 pound balls. There is blow back when fishing deep but using braid helps cut it down to a min. 15 pounders are expensive and a lot of weight on the rigger just haven't found the need to go that heavy.
1991 Sea Ranger 17, 2014 F90 Yamaha, 2008 T8 Yamaha

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 09:18:37 PM »
I don't use the retrieve cords because it is one more thing to get tangled or in the way.  I have a gaff in my rear rod holder rack that I use to scoop up the release clip lines.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline CanvasGuy

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Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2014, 04:16:01 AM »
OK Weighing in here ,,,
I run my Downriggers off the stern Corners..
 where Salmon University recommends you mount them..on an Arima.
and use my Swivel bases to retrieve my line to hook up my release
 I run a 550Lb parachute cord as a snubber allowing enough to keep the balls just under the surface.
and easy hand hold to pick up..
I run ACE n the Hole set up..running the flasher off the ball..(only way to fly IMHO) nothing but fish on my line.... :party:
and recently went to 200# power pro braid  if you are real attentive when you drag a ball and retie after every indecent...
since I run 2106's I run 15 lb balls if I can get them...
and it works Great for me..

MY :twocents: 
Gary Smart
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Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2014, 07:02:42 AM »
If you have a prop guard the release clip lines can be shorter than the distance to the prop- or longer than it.
Just don't make them the same length because it will find its way into the prop- guard or not! 
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline wedocq

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2014, 08:30:30 AM »
Mark, your repair guy sounds like our UPS mechanics, he doesn't want you to use 15 lb balls because there is a slight chance you might have to use the lifetime warranty, so better not do it! I have had my Scottys for 10 years now with now problems with 15 lb balls. If you are fishing past 60' or so, I think it's the only way to go.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline AlAdams

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2014, 08:53:32 AM »
I think the main advantage to running the heavier weights is when fishing for silvers.  The 15lb balls allow you to kick your speed up keeping your line more vertical.  For kings I troll slower so I'll use the 12 or 10lb balls just because they're easier to handle. 
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2014, 09:14:30 AM »
Shawn- yeah you're right, it's about reducing load and wear on the systems to avoid failure.  But you have a point regarding the lifetime warranty. 

So, anybody know the retrieve difference (maybe feet per minute) on the older units between 12 and 15 pounds?  Mine probably aren't breaking any records with the 12's...
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline wedocq

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2014, 09:25:01 AM »
That's a good point Al. A little off subject, but the old school train of thought of going slow for kings has been changing in recent years. But I think that's because so many people don't use bait as much anymore. I have talked to some guys that will troll at 3-3.5 mph with certain gear for kings. That was unheard of 25 years ago.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline pescadore

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2014, 09:47:10 AM »
 I like the snubbers as well. They have saved my balls several times.  :smile1:

Some say they allow the balls to bounce but I think they also offer a few extra seconds to recover. I'm not sure how often they can be stretched out though. One time I brought it in at least 3 ft long,  so I retire them after a bad grounding. You can buy the snubber without the swivels for less money and re-rig them. They are always cheaper than new lead.

In the winter we like to fish the very bottom so I might move the release clip to the bottom of the snubber. Either way I rig my own release clips 4 feet long. I like stiff tuna line as it doesn't twist up so much. Then instead of the stainless snap that comes on the Scotty rigs, I use a clip straight on to the snubber swivel. This has saved me numerous release clips that seem to pop off all too easily.

Along with spare fuses, I keep an extra belt on board now. I broke one once and had to fish the rest of the weekend pulling the ball up and down by hand. Fortunately we were only fishing 35 feet deep with 10lb balls, and I had upgraded to braided downrigger line.

I  broke the belt as I was trying to get the ball off of a reef using the down rigger. Now if I ground out I put gloves on and pull the line by hand.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 10:50:24 AM by StreamFixer »

Offline GregE

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2014, 04:36:12 PM »
SNUBBERS COULD HAVE SAVED ME THREE DR balls 
Two slips that popped cables and one overrun into the boom and 42#s into the deep....   :doh:
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline BruceL2_Fish

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 05:09:06 PM »
I have used 15lbs balls on my Scotty's forever.   My downriggers were bought in the mid 1990's and have fished for 10 years. then we sold our boat and they sat in storage until we bought our arima this last year.   I ran them this summer they worked fine but I noticed they needed a tune up took them in for service.   They are still pulling 15's. 

We also use snubber and they have saved lots of balls.

Bruce
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline xplorz

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2014, 07:02:48 PM »
That's a good point Al. A little off subject, but the old school train of thought of going slow for kings has been changing in recent years. But I think that's because so many people don't use bait as much anymore. I have talked to some guys that will troll at 3-3.5 mph with certain gear for kings. That was unheard of 25 years ago.
-Shawn

That's the low end of commercial troll speed for chinook slamon and has been even when I was in the single digits age wise (late 60's) on my dads old double ended troller.
'89 Arima Sea Chaser 17, 98 Honda horses.

Offline yellowlab

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2014, 08:52:40 PM »
Use the orange bead stops if you're using braid, which I highly recommend. Tie them with a double palomar knot and use 3 stops with a dab of super glue to keep them from sliding. Braid is quiet, doesn't give off any current, and doesn't splinter like cable. I also use a snubber (Goldstar Green), 12# finned balls, good Sampo ball bearing swivels on flashers. I do not like the Scotty releases. I'd never found them to be the correct tension, either too loose or too tight, even with adjusting the clip or swapping out the pads. I highly recommend the heavy off shore release that John's Sporting Goods makes. I also use a small gaff and have marks on the wooden handle with intervals marks at 16", 22", 24" and 36", you'll never need a tape to fumble around while determining if a fish is worthy of the box. Oh, and I use a little surgical tubing on the release clip holds to keep them from sliding up or down the braid. Someone mentioned having a spare belt on board, I found this to be of wise info. Last summer we were 30 miles out and one belt failed and wouldn't you know it, the fishing was HOT. It took more time having to swap the belt from one rigger to the other as we had to filter through wild Coho after Coho trying to get our legal limits. Now, I carry spare parts aboard and make sure the riggers are working properly. 
21' Sea Ranger Skip Tower, 150 VTEC FI Honda, Salt Boss with Yamaha T8 on 703 controller, hot box plumbed and Marine Tech P2. Solas 4-blade 14.75x15 aluminum prop.

My First Arima was a 17' Sea Chaser Skip Tower with Honda 90 and 8  kicker

Offline wedocq

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2014, 10:04:26 PM »
That's a good point Al. A little off subject, but the old school train of thought of going slow for kings has been changing in recent years. But I think that's because so many people don't use bait as much anymore. I have talked to some guys that will troll at 3-3.5 mph with certain gear for kings. That was unheard of 25 years ago.
-Shawn

That's the low end of commercial troll speed for chinook slamon and has been even when I was in the single digits age wise (late 60's) on my dads old double ended troller.

Yup! My Grandfather was a sport troller, and he trolled fast as well. I think it was because he fished plugs, and they needed the speed. But anytime we sport fished, it was with herring, and very slow.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2014, 10:18:54 PM »
yellowlab,
That is great advice!  I've been frustrated by the stops slipping but never thought about tying them into place and gluing them too!  Also like your measurement marks on the gaff to easily ID short fish and release them.
I prefer the blue Scotty snubber because it is shorter and our hulls are so low...
In 20 years I've never had a belt fail but always carry a spare anyway.
I've had great luck with the Scotty releases with the yellow lips.  The trick is with high drag gear, such as flashers is to pull the clip back to that it gets in to super-hold range.

I've heard that trollers routinely run at 6 mph.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2014, 08:11:58 AM »
That's tuna speed.  The blow back must be HUGE 

StreamFixer
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
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Offline GoodDays

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2014, 03:00:59 PM »
25 pound cannon balls... or even 30's   :yeahthat:

GoodDays Greg

Offline GutZ

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2014, 04:14:16 PM »
SFF, your right,  talking to the scotty reps before I spend over 100 bucks for 2, 15lb ball's  makes good sense.

Check Outdoor Emporium for DR weights. I think you might get 4x 12# for $100
It's always good to have a plan.
It's always better to have a good plan.

Offline baddawg

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2014, 09:08:03 AM »
I have run 15lb for years, no problems.  I like the blowback being less, especially when fishing at 150' plus. Keep an eye on craigslist for downrigger balls, usually $25 to $30 each for 15lb balls.

Offline First Cabin

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 01:24:32 PM »
I always place two stops on the wire side by side.  They are less likely to slide out of position or fall off.  I set the stops at a spot on the wire where the downrigger ball remains just under the surface of the water and doesn't swing around while I'm checking the bait.  I also place the stop at the correct spot on the wire so I can lift the boom on the downrigger and the ball swings right to me and I can put it down inside the boat.

Mixed feelings on the snubbers.  I had a snubber break once which left me wondering if I was just adding another link to fail.  My wire breaks have usually been from frays further up the line and not at the ball itself so the snubber hasn't saved me.  I do really like grabbing onto it to pull the ball in though!  Much more comfortable than grabbing the wire!

Of course since I put Cannon wire on my Scottys I haven't lost any gear.  That was  a few years ago now and I haven't changed the Cannon wire yet.    Far fewer frays...little corrosion....  I'm convinced the Scotty wire is junk in comparison.  Put the wire side by side and look at it with a magnifying glass.  You'll notice the Cannon wire is wrapped 30% tighter(meaning more wire strands per foot, more flexibility and less work hardening), not to mention the anti-corrosion coating.

In short, if I were to buy a Scotty downrigger, the first time I needed to change the wire, I'd go with Cannon wire.  Lose a ball or two and the wire is cheap!
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline GregE

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 02:16:43 PM »
Good points Eric.
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline PNW Pride

Re: Downrigger's from Definace
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 07:50:14 AM »
LOL!  So many opinions and preferences.  I run Cannon D R's with Scotty high speed wire and Cannon terminal gear attached to the blue snubbers.  I have had gear wrapped around crab trap line at Westport numerous times and have always recovered with this setup.  The blue snubbers stretch but have not failed, the Scotty high speed is cheap and has a higher test lb rating than the normal stuff.  When I ran Cannon wire I lost a lot of gear, granted that wire was a few years old and I didn't re rig terminal gear every season.  Now I re rig terminal gear every year after I cut about 4-5' of wire off.  That last 4-5' of wire really takes a lot of abuse pulling 15lb weights in out of the water, I believe it creates weak points.
21' Sea Ranger/Honda 150HP