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IMPORTANT SERVICE INFO!!! CALLING ALL SUZUKI OWNERS!!!

Started by wedocq, April 25, 2011, 07:26:25 AM

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First Cabin

First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Threeweight

Depends on the hours, and how much salt usage.  If it was mostly a freshwater motor, that's a steal.  If a low hours salt motor, it could be ok.  Lots of salt, maybe offer them $2500.

Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

wedocq

Uffda! I cringe at the thought of buying someone else's problems. I would inspect the living crap out of that motor before considering buying it.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki [glow=red,2,300]DF175 [/glow] 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

feelin wright

Where is the engine holder located. Is it directly under the ECO on teh port side?  Looks like if this is it you have to pull the entire block to get to it.

Pretty sure that my engines are having this problem and would like to verify.

Threeweight

You don't need to  pull the block, just remove the cowling and the side panels from the leg of the motor.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

wedocq

The engine holder sits directly below the engine. Its about 2.5" To 4" thick. To see it best, remove the plastic cowling.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki [glow=red,2,300]DF175 [/glow] 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

GregE

Greg
2005 SL 22 Honda 225 Kodak II
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT, Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat; SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait


Threeweight

Friend of mine just bought a small 2002 Striper with a Suzuki Df140 (only 72 hours on the motor!).  Going to help him install a gold plug aluminum plug next weekend.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

GregE

Greg
2005 SL 22 Honda 225 Kodak II
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT, Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat; SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

wedocq

2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki [glow=red,2,300]DF175 [/glow] 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

GregE

I brought it up as there were several similar situations

Learn from other's experience I always say...
Greg
2005 SL 22 Honda 225 Kodak II
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT, Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat; SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

damascusmaker

Does this corrosion problem happen with suzuki's ran in fresh water or only those used in saltwater? I just bought a used 2012 suzuki  50hp thats only been used in fresh water and am wondering if I just made a mistake.

Thanks

Threeweight

You are fine.

This issue only affected Suzuki's using their 1.9 liter block (90 hp, 115 hp, and 140 hp engines), sold between the late 90's and up to about 2007.  No other Suzuki engine is affected by it.

Enjoy your new motor.  I have 400 trouble free hours on my 2009 Suzuki 90, and I love it. 
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Hydro-Therapy


Threeweight  How did that plug install go on your friends motor ????

  H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

damascusmaker

Thank you Threeweight for the reply. That's a relief. I've been shopping for a motor like this for several months and when I finally came across this one I jumped on it, this thread really had me worried that I messed up big time. Thanks 

Threeweight

Haven't gotten to it yet... the deluge last weekend got us sidetracked.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

BestBoats

Good to know about Susuki.  When a company does not stand behind their product and do everything they can to help the consumer that speaks volumes. If I am ever in the market they will not be on my list based on the consensus of stories here about how they treat their customers.  I don't do business with companies like that. Thanks for the heads up!
2007 21' Sea Ranger Hardtop "THE A-TEAM"
150 Evinrude Etec
9.9 Susuki EFI

Threeweight

I am not brand loyal, but I also hate threads that take a turn like this.

Yeah, the O2 sensor plug issue on the Suzuki 90-115-140's and how they handled it sucked.  So did Yamaha's refusal to warranty F200-225-250 exhaust corrosion, a $6000 repair bill.



Other not covered under warranty headaches I can think of are Etec EMM module failures, Honda corrosion and paint peeling off, Mercury Verado pencil coils and lower unit failures, etc... 

Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

BestBoats

#44
Quote from: Threeweight on November 06, 2015, 01:48:41 PM
I am not brand loyal, but I also hate threads that take a turn like this.

Yeah, the O2 sensor plug issue on the Suzuki 90-115-140's and how they handled it sucked.  So did Yamaha's refusal to warranty F200-225-250 exhaust corrosion, a $6000 repair bill.



Other not covered under warranty headaches I can think of are Etec EMM module failures, Honda corrosion and paint peeling off, Mercury Verado pencil coils and lower unit failures, etc...


Nothing worse than when companies don't stand behind their products and mistakes. Looks like all the brands have done it. Hadn't heard about all those.
Maybe the real lesson here is having a motor with a "warranty" from any of these companies can be worth little more than the paper it is written on.  :shrug9:
2007 21' Sea Ranger Hardtop "THE A-TEAM"
150 Evinrude Etec
9.9 Susuki EFI

blindmonkey

Salt water is a brutal, hostile environment  for any outboard motor of any make. Realistically they are all built to meet a price point. I doubt any of us would want to pay the price for a motor that was 100% bullet proof  :bigshock:
Lorne
2013 17' Sea Chaser, Honda 90, Yamaha F8 SOLD
1994 Sea Explorer, Mercury 60, SOLD

damascusmaker

This is what I've learned over the years, you'll often  hear more negative reports and opinions about 1 dissatisfied customer experience  then you'll hear from all the thousands of happy customers experiences. I do agree that its good to hear when someone has a problem with a particular manufacturer so we can make more educated decisions on where we spend our money. But we also need to look at all the facts in order to make that educated decision. I heard 22 years ago from one gentleman that had a bad experience, say Yamaha was a piece of junk, I did some homework and bought one anyway, I just sold my 1994 yamaha last week and it never had a wench put to it in all that time and it was still running great, but I wanted a 4 stroke so I figured it was time to up grade. I'm not a rep for any company just saying we get good and bad reports about all companies if we look hard and long enough, but if these companies are so bad how do they stay in business for 50+ yrs. Just something to think about.

wedocq

Yup, very good points. It's definitely hard to decipher the difference between a few people having issues and a legitimate design flaw when reading reports on the internet.  I would encourage people to do their own research and not reach a conclusion from just one or two sources. For what it's worth, I realized Suzuki's issue was a  design flaw and once fixed, the motor is very solid.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki [glow=red,2,300]DF175 [/glow] 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

damascusmaker

Wedocq, I've heard nothing but great things about Suzuki for several yrs., thats why it worried me when I came across  suzuki's  having bad problems.  But I have one now and I'm looking forward to using it, it has to be the quietest motor I've ever been around, if it holds up half  as long as my old yamaha, I'll be happy.

Threeweight

We finally got around to installing the "gold plug" in my buddies Suzuki DF140.  This is a new-to-him boat and motor with about 150 hours on it, mostly freshwater.

The steel plug required some significant torque to get it out... it looked like the engine holder had been painted after the plug was put in.  We did not have to apply any heat to it, or penetrating oil, but a 24" breaker bar came in handy.

Couple of observations... this plug is on the "dry side" of the exaust.  It does not come in contact with water in the cooling jacket from what we could see.  In normal operation, the only saltwater it could come in contact with is from the outside of the motor if you dunked the power head.  The outside of his plug, and the top 3/4 of the threads, looked brand new.  However, the tip of the plug where it comes in contact with exhaust gasses from the motor was caked in black soot and rusted badly.  The aluminum threads in the engine jacket where the plug screwed in looked great, except for the bottom 1/8 of an inch or so, which had some corrosion started.

He cleaned the threads with a rag, and coated the new aluminum "gold plug" threads with silicone to try and reduce future corrosion, and screwed it in.  Went in fine, no issues when we ran the motor.

IMO, this corrosion issue has nothing to do with saltwater.  The plug simply doesn't come in contact with saltwater in normal situations.  From the looks of the plug, and what we could see of the inside of the engine holder/exhaust tube, the corrosion seemed to be coming from the corrosive exhaust gasses passing over the steel, and a corroding it.  The corrosion of the steel then spread from the tip of the plug to attack the threads in the aluminum it is screwed into.  I'd imagine that in an engine with a lot of hours, that did not have this problem addressed, the rotting away of that exhaust plug, then the aluminum around the plug, eventually takes out the aluminum casting right above it that separates the oil pan from the cooling jacket. 

Bottom line to me is if you own a Suzuki DF 90-115-140 of a 2007 or earlier vintage, get this fixed.  All the Saltway and freshwater flushes in the world won't do squat to address this, as the corrosion isn't in the cooling jacket and isn't saltwater related (at least when it starts).  The plug we used was cheap, and took 15 minutes to install.  I don't know how this new plug will stand up to the corrosive exhaust gasses over time either, but I bet it would be a heck of a lot better than the steel one we replaced.

One of the irony's here is it looks to me like this is a variation on the same problem the Yamaha links I posted above highlighted... engine designers not taking into consideration that unburnt fuel in the exhaust is corrosive.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson