Author Topic: "M" Bow Eye  (Read 4840 times)

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Offline Croaker Stroker

"M" Bow Eye
« on: July 12, 2013, 05:56:20 PM »
I finally decided to cut into the bow eye area to install my new bow eye.  And here's what I found....

The nuts were completely rusted away and just crumbled when I picked away the surrounding foam.  (The dark pieces are rusted nut fragments.

I started to make a cut-out for an access deck plate, but decided to go through the top where there was alerady cut-outs for the gas tank mounting bolts.

One problem that I encountered was that the "M" eyebolt was not long enough.  There was no room for the outer backing plate, or the inner one on the bottom bolt.  I had to grind away some fiberglass to even fit the nut.  I was able to fit the inner backing plate on the upper two bolts, so I think it will be plenty strong.

Next step is to make a Starboard deck plate to fit.



« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:24:19 PM by Croaker Stroker »
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline woody

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 07:36:02 PM »
Just to remind everyone, CS has a Pacer.  That (from the top) approach is not available in SC or SR's.

Keeler, anyone else ... any trouble with length of the eye bolts?  This is the first time that has been mentioned.

Woody
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 07:46:50 AM by woody »

Offline Kahunanui

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2013, 04:05:28 AM »

How do you determine, before you tear into the boat, IF you need to address the faulty nut problem?   Is this on all Arima of a certain age or what should one use as trigger to decide that yes, I need to cut and replace or no, my eye bolts are fine ?

I have 15 11 SC that ID indicates is 2001 model

Thank you
Stay Pono,  Lawai'a        -        U.S.C.G. -  O.U.P.V.


2001 SC 15'11" 75 hp Honda re-carbed to 90 w/ 9.9 Honda boot. Hawaii is home, currently @ USMC Camp Lejeune NC

Offline Markshoreline

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2013, 05:54:11 AM »
Unless the bow eye is corroded on the exterior, the only way to inspect the nuts is to gain access to them by cutting an access hole in the forward-most point of the cuddy.  Plan ahead to make the hole's dimensions that will fit an access plate or starboard cover to seal the hole.

I'd recommend making the hole lower than the one in the pic since that one's initial purpose was to access the anchor locker drain.  The high location made for difficult access to the bow eye and nuts.

The rusty pic is what the nuts look like if they are corroded!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline woody

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2013, 07:56:09 AM »
Big K

Been trying to see if there is any common year/boat/etc for corrosion.  Unable to see.  We know that Arima ordered from the most reliable manufactures in the best grade they could get ... but suspicion is that not all pigs are equal. Arima also improved installation procedures and practices over the years attempting to put out a high quality product.

My opinion now is to put it on your inspection list for inspection and possible replacement. An access hole is required on most boats.  Cover with deck plate, or better I think, Starboard as Croaker did. Some members have found the nuts corroded, others found corrosion (shouldering or collaring) on the bolts.

Sorry, no model years, exposure to salt? resin coverage? too many variables. If you lift your boat with it, inspect.  Bottom line, in time subject to failure. So you need to inspection and replacement if needed now and then.  When??????

Woody




« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 09:58:11 AM by StreamFixer »

Offline Kahunanui

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2013, 11:42:43 AM »
Thank you all.   I , of course,  was hoping for a year model group or other characteristic to narrow it down.  I will put it on the list. Thanks
Stay Pono,  Lawai'a        -        U.S.C.G. -  O.U.P.V.


2001 SC 15'11" 75 hp Honda re-carbed to 90 w/ 9.9 Honda boot. Hawaii is home, currently @ USMC Camp Lejeune NC

Offline Packman

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 01:04:10 PM »
I have a 1991 Sea Ranger 19 and just did the "cut a hole and inspect the nuts" thing and am very glad I did, the nuts and small washers were very rusted. They rust because the anchor locker drains right on top of them.  After 20 years even stainless steel is challenged by this abuse.  I placed a 1/8" x 2 1/2" x 5" stainless steel plate over the area and screwed it down with new stainless steel washers and nuts.  Finished off the hole with a deck plate so I can inspect it anytime.  Whole thing took a short afternoon and is well worth it.  Now when I winch the boat the final foot or so I won't be wondering if the bow eye is going to come out. 
Sea Ranger 19, Mercury 115 4-stroke

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 01:08:40 PM »
Couple of questions....

Has anyone who owns an older boat (without inspection plate) found that they didn't need to replace the bolts ?

Who has replaced the rear tie-down eyes and did they also need replacing ??
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 01:15:13 PM by Croaker Stroker »
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Markshoreline

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2013, 10:49:20 PM »
Croaker,
My boat is a 1991. 

Your question about the rear tie-down eyes scares me to death- I don't even want to drill through the sponson wells just to look!  At least the rear eyes don't suffer the pulling strain that the front does.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline BlaineMike

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 07:21:45 PM »
When I was pulling my boat ( 1985 Sea Sprinter) out of the water last night I spotted threads on the bow eye  :bigshock:.  I carefully strapped the tie downs from the rear cleats to the trailer and gingerly drove her home.  Today I opened her up to find that the nuts on the bow eye had completely corroded away!  There are two large washers and on lock washer but nothing more than residual corrosion where the nuts once sat.  Using the winch I eased the bow eye out and I hope to pick up and install a replacement tomorrow.  I posted a couple of pics up in my gallery, but I am not sure how to attach them here and the pic size on my home PC is much too large to attach.  Thank goodness for the hours I have spent reading up on Arimas on this site or I may not have noticed the impending doom.
I now know why they call it fishing and not catching.

Offline Markshoreline

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2013, 08:30:05 PM »
Croaker, hate to tell you this but today I noticed rust on the lower part of my m bolt... :shrug9:
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2013, 08:38:04 PM »


Must be 304 stainless  :shrug9:   Oh well, the first bow eye lasted over 25 years, so it should outlast me.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Markshoreline

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2013, 10:26:40 PM »
Yeah, me too!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 04:39:19 PM »
Finally got to this project.  Woody got the 'M' eye for me last spring.  After very careful measurement and consultation with colleagues, we decided to put the access here.  However, since we were planning to place a 4" deck plate access, we needed to have a minimum of 6" flat surface.  So we could not put it here so we moved up about 8 inches and put it there.  As you can clearly see there turned out well for this project.  Here was on the flat area below and to the left of the date stamp.

This is where there is in relation to the inside of the bow on my 19SC


This is a close up of what we found


You can see the remnants of the silicone used to seal the unit when installed at the factory.

The hole needs to be 4 1/2" diameter.  We had a 4" hole saw and then used a drill mounted sanding wheel to remove the 1/4" all the way around.  Doing this was good because it gave us better access to the third nut on the 'M' bow eye.
We needed to use a drift pin to remove the existing eye.  In the process, a short 3/8 socket extension was tried and dropped into the bilge.  I am sure it will show up near the pumps someday.

This is the eye removed.  There was no corrosion on the nuts or threads.  If any one wants it, please let me know.



The next problem was creating enough room to drill the third hole (3/8") for the new 'M' eye.  My first idea was to use jack stands to raise the boat and pull the trailer forward a couple of feet.  My colleague suggested removing the winch.  One of those AHA!!!   :doh: moments.  Two bolts and the winch was out of the way.

Using the old eye and the 3 hole metal shield, we located and drilled the new hole. I observed from above to keep the left right alignment and colleague used the old eye for vertical alignment.  Removed the old eye, put the shield on the 'M', slathered on copious 5200 and installed the new eye.  Fit beautifully. however, we needed to back the nuts next to the eye all the way to have sufficient length to get through the glass in the bow.  It was tight to say the least.

This is what it looks like from the inside.  Getting the list on the boat for this shot was tough   :bigshock:


After getting the deck plate in place I measured to the center of the plate as shown here



Here is a close up so you can see the measurement to the center of the deck plate.  Right at 7" down from bottom of anchor locker.



Lessons learned:  The outside diameter of the lid of the deck plate is 4 1/2".  Which happens to be the diameter needed to install the deck plate unit.  It makes a handy template for marking if you need to do some grinding. 

-The threaded length on the 'M' screw eye is marginal.  Be sure to get all the silicone out that was around the old nuts. Be prepared to remove a little of the glass where the inside metal shield needs to go if the eye threads are not long enough.  You would likely need a grinder of some sort.  We just barely made it.

-It is a LOT easier to remove the winch than it is to try to pick up the boat and jockey the trailer   :whistle:

-With the short threads, installing the 'M' would have been really tough had we had the room to cut the access hole here as originally contemplated (8" below where it ended up being located)   :facepalm:

StreamFixer
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 04:50:35 PM by StreamFixer »
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline Diablo

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2014, 05:50:45 PM »
Great something else I need to do. Where would one get an 'M bolt'?
Thanks for the heads up on potential problem.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline Croaker Stroker

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Markshoreline

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2014, 06:18:07 PM »
Nice job!  I love my M bow eye - it was tough having three hooks on a single...
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Wyrguy

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Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 06:18:40 PM »
So let me see if I can get this right...  :shrug9:  :1zhelp:

Your 'fix' for something that doesn't appear to be 'broken' was to go "here and then there", cut a hole where none existed before, remove a factory installed part, replace with one that requires ANOTHER hole where none previously existed and is already proven to be 'suspect', goop the 'HECK' out of all of that... and then, when you put two out of three of the nylock nuts on, not do them up to take advantage of the fact that they're required to be tightened enough for the Nylock portion to prevent them vibrating loose... and then the third one is just a standard SS nut??? 
:hoboy: :nono: :anyone: :bigshock: :1zhelp: :1zhelp: :1zhelp:

Hmmmmm... call me :stooges:  but I'm leaving my bow eye exactly like Arima intended...

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins where the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250 O/S & T9.9 Yamahas c/w iTroll
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer c/w stainless disc brakes
Raymarine E120W, Digital HD Colour radar, Scotty HP 2106 DR's c/w 15 lb glow ballzzzz!

Offline ak-angler

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Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 06:37:16 PM »
Gee whiz, Rick. If we all left everything "exactly like Arima intended", none of us would have LED lights, dual batteries, trim tabs, or hydraulic steering. Not to mention cool upgrades like long range fuel tanks, diesel heaters, or dual pantographic wipers.

However, the above comment notwithstanding, I am concerned that the studs aren't long enough to properly engage the nuts. I believe conventional wisdom says there should be two threads protruding past the nut.  :anyone:
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Wyrguy

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Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 06:44:14 PM »
Gee whiz, Rick. If we all left everything "exactly like Arima intended", none of us would have LED lights, dual batteries, trim tabs, or hydraulic steering. Not to mention cool upgrades like long range fuel tanks, diesel heaters, or dual pantographic wipers.

However, the above comment notwithstanding, I am concerned that the studs aren't long enough to properly engage the nuts. I believe conventional wisdom says there should be two threads protruding past the nut.  :anyone:

Rod, you're right about all the additions/modifications/upgrades that we all make to our boats... my post was meant 'partly' tongue in cheek... except for the lack of lock washers and/or properly installed Nylock nuts...  IMHO, it would've been 'wiser' once the access hole was cut, to leave well enough alone  :twocents:   :nono: :nono: :nono:

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins where the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250 O/S & T9.9 Yamahas c/w iTroll
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer c/w stainless disc brakes
Raymarine E120W, Digital HD Colour radar, Scotty HP 2106 DR's c/w 15 lb glow ballzzzz!

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 06:49:59 PM »
I had the same issue (see my first post).  I gooped my nuts with 5200.  I'm thinking they won't turn.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:53:20 PM by Croaker Stroker »
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline ak-angler

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Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 07:29:50 PM »
IMHO, it would've been 'wiser' once the access hole was cut, to leave well enough alone  :twocents:   :nono: :nono: :nono:

Rick

Understood. But, even if the original bow eye wasn't corroded, as they have been on some boats, I can see the benefit of installing an 'M' eye. I think it would be great to have a separate point to hook up the safety chain. It would keep it from getting bound up with the winch hook. It's too bad the studs aren't just a bit longer, though...



1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 07:47:12 PM »

Maybe you could run a die down them to get a few more threads.   :shrug9:
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Diablo

Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 08:03:11 PM »
Thanks for the link CS.
I agree having a place to hook the safety chain would be better. It is pretty full on the original eye with a fat winch hook.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: "M" Bow Eye
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 08:13:39 PM »
While the threads did not extend beyond the nylon locks, they have definitely engaged that portion.  The third nylon nut has joined the socket extension taking some time off in the bilge.  I will be replacing the non-nylon nut and applying copious 5200 to the inside.  Once cured, the 5200 will further keep the nuts tight.  And with the new inspection port, I can now periodically check them.

StreamFixer

RickDickulous:  you have my express permission to be as  :stooges: you may wish any time you wish   :wink:
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'