Author Topic: Need to Re-Wire everything  (Read 3038 times)

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Offline AlAdams

Need to Re-Wire everything
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:55:23 AM »
I've got my new Lowrance unit mounted, transducers mounted, cables routed to the cabin and now - the unit needs power.  I know it's probably simple but I can't seem to get my mind around the wiring piece.  To add to that all my wiring is '88 vintage - glass fuses (original Arima install) and some directly to the battery which makes me nervous.  I've never had a problem but it's probably a disaster waiting to happen.  I have purchased the SeaStar fuse panels - one for the cuddy and one for back by the battery but that's as far as I've gotten.    I've read and re-read most of the posts on wiring and it seems to go in one and out the other.  It's pretty much a foreign language to me.
   
Is there anyone close (Edgewood/Puyallup area) that has some time to help get me going?  There's a fridge full of cold beers in the garage next to the boat...  Thanks!!  Al
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Offline Red 22

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 02:11:31 PM »
Beer and electrical components by themselves are ok, together they are like magic... they disappear in smoke.
Tony

05' Red Legend 22 skip tower, Honda 225, Honda 9.9,  Garmin 740s, Garmin HD 18 radar Garmin GHP10 auto-pilot
“I’ve always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can’t afford it.” What these men can’t afford is not to go.
-Sterling Hayden

Offline amazing grace

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 07:47:36 PM »
That was cute Red22.

No help here Al, but I did want to add that you are not alone. I have two boat the same vintage as yours and yes they are an accident waiting to happen I feel. Mostly due to the age but also due to the way in which they were wired originally and the stuff that got added along the way.  :facepalm:

I feel a complete re-wire is the way to go. I bet there are some folks who will help you out. If I were closer I would bring one over and we could drink a couple and figure things out after consulting each others interpetation of a mulittude of threads on here about some of the awesome wiring jobs done by some of our resident experts.  :shrug9:

I am going to have one professionally done and use it as a template for the other one hopefully. Good luck and I wish you well. You are on the right track I would say.  :beerchug:
1989 22' C-Dory Angler

Offline AlAdams

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 08:55:08 PM »
Thanks AG!  I may end up doing the same. I really don't need beer to pop a bunch of fuses or make unwanted smoke. I'd just rather it be done right so I don't have to cross my fingers and hope things work when the boat hits the water.  I've done that for 25 years.  All the chatter on this site has made me more aware that hoping things work isn't smart or safe. You know the saying - no brains no headaches! Maybe I'm a smartin' up a bit.  AA
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 09:37:31 PM »
I am getting this company to make me a dash panel.

http://newwiremarine.com/calculator/

Offline AlAdams

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 05:17:42 PM »
Thought I'd try to post a few photos. Cuddy wiring look familiar? 
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 05:19:45 PM »
Al, how much re-wiring are you going to do?


SFF

Offline AlAdams

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 05:44:13 PM »
What I'd like to do first is get the new Lowrance hooked up along with the second Scotty.   I may just hook those into the existing junk as time is running short.  I need to pull all new marine grade wire, make all new connections, label everything and eventually hook up the second battery. 
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Offline GregE

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 06:20:27 PM »
Al, looks like I'm running a parallel track with you.  Got lots of 'stuff'- need to get it mounted and wired correctly. 

Dragging feet on whether to redo the cuddy plywood to Starboard first or having to relocate everything later.





« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:25:23 PM by ReBait »
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline AlAdams

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 06:37:13 PM »
Greg - yours looks pretty organized compared to mine. I like the wood. Kind of classic. The only problem I have is the screws keep backing out on their own. After every trip I go through the boat with a Phillips head screwdriver. Depending on the trip the cuddy door can be hanging by a thread. The little tricks I've tried haven't worked all that well.  Starboard might fix that but it looks like a lot of time and $.  I'll stay with the wood but that's just my preference. Al
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Seattleflyfisher

  • Guest
Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 06:46:30 PM »
Al, I'm in west seattle. When I get the Gator Chaser back from Arima you are welcome to come over and check out what I'm doing.



SFF

Offline GregE

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 04:52:49 PM »
Al, did you see Tony Alua's boat at Pt Defiance?

My project link
http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=4767.0

Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline AlAdams

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 07:24:57 AM »
I did!  I think I was at the boathouse visiting with Tony yesterday morning.  He has done a masterful job.  I've got my work cut out for me.  I was messing around in my boat last night - hooked up the new downrigger (to the battery...). Now non of the lights, horn, wiper etc work.  Very par for the course for me.  I'm pretty sure it's the power lead going up to the cuddy.  So, I'm going to start accumulating parts, wire, connectors, new batteries.  My problem is I've got a couple of fishing trips planned into August so I won't start on this overhaul until we're back.  Hopefully I can jimmy things together enough to where everything works for now.  I took pictures of Tony's masterpiece too!  If mine can look close to what he's put together I'll be happy!
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2013, 07:29:33 AM »
Many of us have found this to be a terrific marine wiring source.

Fast, competitive and High quality.

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/

StreamFixer
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline pnwislanddog

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2013, 09:55:41 AM »
Al, your the wiring in your boat looks a lot like mine. I too have an older Arima ('89). The wiring has been added to, subtracted from, abandoned in place, and generally cobbled together so much that I can't realistically trace the circuits. It will be a major job to re-do the boat, but that's really the only way to make it right. I, like you and others, have to wait till I have a hole in my schedule. Actually, its more accurate to say that I'm waiting till I put it on my schedule. I guess I'm choosing to do other projects first.

Anyway... when I finally get down to it I know from my experiences in rewiring homes to first remove every trace of the existing system... all the way down to the batteries and panel. Then, start to rebuild. And, just like house wiring, its basically a simple system. You begin with a source of energy, lead it to a distribution panel, then branch out from there to all the appliances. Along the way are switches and meters that get wired in according to their particular needs. If one takes this simple approach, then one is really just dealing with one device at a time. And most of us have already some experience in doing that. So take it one step at a time. Pretty soon that entire boat will be rewired. Then one neatens it all up with a bazillion cable ties. And labels... everything gets labels.

The one aspect that I'd like most to avoid is working in the cramped confines of the boat. I don't bend as well as I used to nor do my legs get me up and down so quickly and effortlessly. Pulling wire will be awkward by myself so maybe I'll add a beer fridge to my shop/boat yard.  :whistle:

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2013, 10:32:13 AM »
Island Dog

Too bad you are not closer,  I'd loan you Woody   :whistle: :wink:

StreamFixer
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline AlAdams

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2013, 06:51:27 PM »
Island Dog -

Unlike you, I'm the only one to blame for any wiring issues on my boat. 

I know what you mean by being cramped up in the cuddy.  I'm 6'4" (or I used to be) and if I hold a position in the cuddy for too long getting out and standing up can be a struggle. 

I did figure out why nothing in the front of the boat worked - I failed to hook up two negative wires to the battery.  They hid themselves from me the bastards!  So, now things work, all except for the anchor light and the wiper.  It's always a corrosion issue with the light.  I need to change that out to an LED.  The wiper I'm not sure.  I think I'll fix that with some RainEx.  That wiper has always been a poor excuse for a wiper anyway.  Not Arima's fault - Don says that's all they had to choose from in the early days.  I probably need to upgrade to the newer model.
 
I think I'll dump all the switches that came with the boat during the rewire and go with the Blue Sea switch set-up.  I've had problems with the old switches corroding. I have to crawl in the cuddy with my dental scraping tool and pick away until there's enough metal to metal to get things working again. 

I need to draw up a plan, get all the parts together, lay them out and make sure everything's there - probably have someone that knows this stuff take a look.  Then I'll be ok to do the grunt work.  It's always easier to pull wires with two people.  You already know my aptitude for these things - but if you want help I'd be happy to volunteer.  Al
You can't trust water, even a straight stick will turn crooked in it - WC Fields

'88 SR w/Skip Tower  '02 Honda 90,'02 Honda 15
Electrical by R. Wyrguy.

Offline Wyrguy

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Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 06:05:37 PM »
Beer and electrical components by themselves are ok, together they are like magic... they disappear in smoke.

Red, I just about spit out my coffee when I read this...!  :jester:

Al, wiring will always seem mysterious, the first time.  :anyone:
I'm going to share an 'insider secret' with you guys... the 'secret' is to remember that power goes out and it needs to return back to the battery. See, sounds simple?  :shrug9:

Wait, it's NOT!!! The use of undersized wires combined with poor connections is usually the route of all the evil that is marine wiring. When sizing the wires to a load/device, remember the 'secret', power out, returns to the battery, therefore whatever length to the device, double it for the VD calculation (relax Russ, it means volt drop  :doh: ) Blue Sea has a .pdf chart available (also an online Circuit Wizard, http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/ and an Android & iOS app) It lists the 2 different percentages of VD allowed by the US Coast Guard & ABYC, 3% and 10%...
In my 'professional opinion' why would you want to have a 'planned' 10% drop on voltage to something to save  :twocents: ??? None of my circuits are planned to exceed 2.5% VD. You go to all the trouble to buy great equipment, mounting it so it's 'just right where you want it', get all your fishing gear together, head out on the water... sounder doesn't work right, VHF is intermittent, lights not working, bilge pump iffy... engine won't restart... now how much does going up a wire size or two cost vs. that? False economy and potentially unsafe (words of wisdom from an Electrical Safety Officer that has investigated waaaaay too many electrical fires)

****** BEGIN TECHIE ALERT ******

I have two group 27 batteries (860 CCA starting battery and a 1000 CCA deep cycle) on my boat, something else that then leads to more issues and potential fires is called the AIC rating of the O/C (fuse or breaker) where connected to the battery. AIC (or sometimes AIR) is the Ampere Interrupting Capacity (or Rating) of the O/C. The MINIMUM AIC rating I require is 3000 amps!!!!! Think about a wrench or worse, your metal watch strap across the terminals of a battery! (ask me how I know what that’s like? Come and have a look at the scars on my uncles wrist) That’s how much current will flow in the wire if it was to ‘dead short’ to the other terminal and the amount of current that the fuse would have to ‘interrupt’ without burning itself up… or worse, the fuse internally flashing over and fusing together, then, it's just part of the circuit allowing even more current to flow, until… the wire bursts into flames or the battery EXPLODES from the internal thermal run-away… ALL conductors terminated on a battery terminal MUST have an O/C with the correct AIC rating (the exemption is the conductors that go directly to the engine/starter). The easiest way is to use the MRBF. http://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A

****** END TECHIE ALERT ******

One other thing that really gets my 'gourd pumped' is seeing multiple runs of small wire connected to larger wires with fuses (sometimes) located where the device being fed is instead of where the smaller wire receives its power from. ANY TIME a wire size is decreased, an O/C (either fuse or circuit breaker) is required within 7" (measured by wire length) of that connection. The MAXIMUM fuse at that connection point is based on the ampacity rating of the wire, not the device (VHF, FF, lights, etc.) The Blue Sea panels (or brand of your choice, but I'm VERY partial to Blue Sea) and also their switch panels solve that problem. If the device is marked (or requires) a smaller fuse then you have 2 choices, downsize the fuse at the switch/panel, or leave the inline fuse holder on the power lead with the smaller fuse there. There are of course pros and cons to either way, I'm wiring mine with the wires protected at their rating and then the devices with inline fuses (on the few that 'need' it)
   
There are TONS more pictures of my boat to follow (Danno, I'll start a new post when the time comes) and a description that explains the What, Where, & Why... but for now, the majority of the pics are locked away somewhere within the bits and bites of this old computer… and I still haven't finished... Stay tuned.

If anyone wants some more info or advice, contact me, I'll do my best to help.

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins were the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250 O/S & T9.9 Yamahas
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer c/w stainless disc brakes
Raymarine E120W, Scotty HP 2106 DR's c/w 15 lb glow ballzzzz!

Offline Ulua

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 10:40:18 PM »
Rick, so glad to see you back with your wisdom. Hope everything is getting better with you and yours.
85  17 Sea Ranger
2009 Honda 90
There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.  ~Steven Wright

Offline Wyrguy

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Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 10:47:45 PM »
Thanks Tony... My hope is that I can help all you guys as all the support for me has been great. Also, looking at the pics of your boat that ReBait Greg had posted... AWESOME! I'll try and step up my wiring to meet the challenge!

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins were the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250 O/S & T9.9 Yamahas
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer c/w stainless disc brakes
Raymarine E120W, Scotty HP 2106 DR's c/w 15 lb glow ballzzzz!

Offline Kahunanui

Re: Need to Re-Wire everything
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2013, 04:20:16 AM »
Thanks for all the advice and pics , great help
Stay Pono,  Lawai'a        -        U.S.C.G. -  O.U.P.V.


2001 SC 15'11" 75 hp Honda re-carbed to 90 w/ 9.9 Honda boot. Hawaii is home, currently @ USMC Camp Lejeune NC