Trim tab troubles; electrical foibles

[Frumboldt]

On my second sea trial on my newly purchased 89 sea ranger one of my trim tabs was not working.  The reality of owning a 24 year old boat is sinking in. Good thing I'm not a perfectionist.  Rather than trim out i was listing to port or running level. Wife and kids are off on a trip this coming weekend and rather than tackling the honey do list I'll be seeing if I can get this boat that ran prefect on the pre-buy test drive ready to fish the waters off eureka ca for salmon and halibut (more bad news for the honey do list but at least I should be able to stock the freezer with fish). So in preparation for this fix it attempt I have are a few questions for this amazingly helpfull group.

1. If the hydraulic fluid is low/empty does one need to bleed the lines after adding fluid? The reservoir tank under the pump assembly has become opaque with age; hard to tell if it had fluid or not. That is the first thing i will check beyond that don't really know what the issue could be. Clogged line? Bad piston? Tired pump?

2. The tachometer and temp gauge were working intermittently on the last trip. Could be related to my trim tab issue? Or just an unrelated bad connection? Lights, horn, GPS, Radio, were all working fine. Not much of a plumber; less of an electrician. Is there and "Idiots Guide to Boat electronics" out there?

Sorry no pictures haven't been able to figure that out either. I may need professional help but I've got redundant radio and GPS and a kicker  motor that is pretty straight forward. I should be fine right? :whistle:

[Markshoreline]

Frumbolt,

If you bought a 24 year old boat then you are going to have issues!  My boat is only 22 years old and I have them.  The factory wiring was only marginal at best and with age, corrosion and vibration there are many ways and places that there could be failure.

I wouldn't assume it is the actual trim tab system that is failing- rather would check whether there is current to the actuators when the switch is on.  This will require a volt meter and probably someone to help.

That's where I would check first.  If you have power to the tabs then there's something about the tab system that requires attention.

I'm no electrician for sure but have learned a lot on this site.  I also have on my bookshelf The 12 Volt Bible for Boats which has been helpful, and there are other references that may be even better.

[wedocq]

If there is air in the lines, you sometimes can tell by the sound the pump makes, which would sound like it's "squirting" thru the lines. On mine to bleed them, run then up and then down a few times, open up the resevoir to allow the extra air to excape, add a little fluid, and repeat the process.
-Shawn 

[Frumboldt]

Good tips guys, gonna have some time to tinker this weekend and I have bit of a game plan now. 
still got a couple of weeks to iron out the kinks before the season opens. Thanks.   

[Threeweight]

The intermittent thing affecting multiple gauges makes me think they all share a common ground, which is probably bad.   Time to install a negative bus bar, and rip all that bad wiring out and replace with tinned marine grade and good marine quality crimp connectors.  :twocents:

The most of the wiring on Arimas is done by the dealer, not the factory, and most dealers cut corners with electrical components because few customers really look at them closely.  My boat is an 89, and the original wiring in it was spectacularly poor.

[Chuck Jones]

 ...Ground sounds like it's intermittent.  Good suggestions.

[Frumboldt]

Yes there is probably a rewire in my future. Thanks for the input. Seeing as how I don't know $%!+ about wiring that's gonna cost me a bundle.  But I'm gonna mess around with a bit first.

[wwunder]

If your tabs are Bennett's, they have some good troubleshooting tips on their website.

[Frumboldt]

Yep they are Bennetts I will take a look at that directly. Thanks

[croaker stroker]

My boat is 26 years old. If you are having electrical problems like I did when I first got my boat, there may be a simple, temporary fix until you upgrade your wiring....Under my dash there is a fuse panel for all the electrical components.  The connections to this panel are made with push on connectors which can corrode and become loose over time. To fix this problem I unplugged all the connections and carefully (very carefully) squeezed them with a pair of pliers so that they fit tight.  I also found that the fuses and holders also had corrosion which I scraped and replaced the fuses. This solved my intermittent electrical problems.  Hope this helps.

(the Bennet Switch and connectors could also be the culprit of your T.T. Problem)

[ishan]

hey frumboldt
there is a local guy, christopher fonda, that runs "sea power services..."
he's actually an old friend from santa cruz and an amazing marine electrician and ukelaley player :smile1: ...
i can get you his number...

[fishorcrab]

For corrosion on contacts, I found Corrosion Block to work well.  I have used it on all my trailer light sockets, trailer electrical plug and truck connector socket. and the push on contacts under the dash.  Corrosion is cleaned off and seems to keep the contacts clean.  I do remove the terminal and spray each separately before replacing the terminal.

Found it at Tillamook Sporting Goods but West Marine also carries it.  I usually use Boeshield if the contacts are already clean.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_11151_10001_441951_-1?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=441951&cid=sc_googlepla&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=COTG9aCP1rYCFe5lOgodOB8AQQ#.UXDmYHWQ2No

Paul

[ishan]

kinda off topic, but yesterday my marine mechanic told it it would be good to put zincs on my trim tabs if the boat is going to spend the season in a slip... do any of you bother with this? might save the tabs down the line...

[croaker stroker]

kinda off topic, but yesterday my marine mechanic told it it would be good to put zincs on my trim tabs if the boat is going to spend the season in a slip... do any of you bother with this? might save the tabs down the line...

Not just the tabs, it may save other underwater parts as well.

Good idea since the tabs may not be completely isolated from your electric circuit.  Also, traveling through the water may conduct electricity.

[Markshoreline]

Yup!

[Frumboldt]

I had a little chat with my boat mechanic and did a little diagnostic work (bumbling around). The pump was getting power and making noise on both batteries but no motion from the tabs.  I added fluid. Still no motion.  After some head scratching and attempts to get them to work, unscrewed the pistons, leaked some fluid out added more fluid etc. I switched the battery position to start (1) a little more up and down and the tabs worked.  Pump makes noise but does not move on battery (2). So I'm thinking battery 2 is low enough that it can't power the pump and/or some bad ground situation associated with battery 2. The previous owner suggested getting new batteries, they are five years old. I may do that or get a battery tester or trickle charger. I am going to take Croaker's advice and tune and clean my fuse panel. Ishan, I would like Chris's number because I'm not sure I'm gonna get where I want to go on my own (randomly disconnecting wires and cleaning contacts).

[StreamFixer]

Frumboldt

Save yourself a bunch of work and simply replace the 5 year old battery.....  (easy for me to say as its not my $$$  :whistle: )  They all eventually die...  That battery has certainly served its time...

StreamFixer

[ishan]

question... does the battery in question (#2) have enough juice to turn over your engine?

i talked to chris and unfortunately he is in the process of moving outa the country... to land locked switzerland! and is not taking on any new work... but he mentioned a guy that is around. i dont remember his name off hand but can get it.

a  10/2 amp charger is going to be your new best friend...a must have for a boat owner... and yes 5 years is pretty old for boat batteries. i'd think new ones are in order.

[Frumboldt]

Yep time to go battery shopping, and and probably get a charger too.  I would rather do that than try to get familiar with my Merc 150's emergency starting procedure or try to limp accross the bar on on an outgoing tide with my kicker motor.

[woody]

I bought some nice zinc like Mark has pictured above.  Drilled the holes and installed, even used loc tight.  Pretty proud of final results so I showed Streamfixer. 

Party Pooper pointed out my Smart Tabs were vinyl/plastic or something similar and I should have used what he called " vinyl zincs" (special order only available on line) on them.  He even had his new T Shirt on, something about "Friends Don't Let Friends Do Stupid Things".

Has anyone else used these vinyl zincs on their Smart Tabs and is there anything I should be aware of?

Woody

[StreamFixer]

The whole T-shirt quote is

"Friends don't let Friends do stupid things .... ALONE"   :arms:

StreamFixer

[wedocq]

Vinyl zincs work great. I installed them on my seats. :biggrin:

[Markshoreline]

Woody,
The main thing with vinyl zincs (although the correct term is just "vinyls") is to be careful not to mix materials! You have to use vinyl bolts and nuts like Smart Tabs have in the hinges to keep electrolysis from setting up, else it could actually worse than having no vinyls at all.

[Frumboldt]

Both batterys needed a charge; one was bad. Probably not enough fluid in the resevoir. Tabs seem to be working fine on both batteries now. Gonna sea trial her agian tommorow (minus wife and kids) and see how she goes.  Pulling both batteries and cleaning the leads is probably a good place to start my orientation on the electrical system.

[SRanger]

Had no idea what was coming when I posted this last evening.  Read the news when I got to work this morning and couldn't wait to get home and delete.

RIP Christina

SR