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Close to pulling the trigger

Started by birdman, January 25, 2013, 05:32:04 AM

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Salmon King

If stern weight is an issue for you (as it was for me) then remember the Etec is lighter.
I did not wish to relocate the batteries or fuel tank, etc. Also...When I got my motor I happened across a SCREAMIN' deal
I'm extremely pleased with the performance and economy.
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
2011 14' Sterling
9' Pontoon (Bismarck)
8' Pontoon (Hood)

birdman

Stern weight is definitely an issue.  I figure with the improved fuel economy expected with a 4 stroke I can get rid of the external 18 gallon tank I've had in the port, stern area and replace it with a smaller portable tank up front; I've got the 23 gallon tank for the primary fuel supply.  I'm thinking this will compensate for the extra weight I'm gaining with the 4 stroke.  Thoughts?
Terry; 17' Sea Ranger (1985); 90 HP Yamaha (2012)

amazing grace

Just :twocents: but weight hanging off the very back of the boat vs weight on the floor near the back of the boat is slightly different. I view it a bit different anyways.

Cluttered floor space in a 17' Arima can be troublesome as deck space is compromised for fishing and trapping.

I would want to know the exact weight of what I was removing compared to what I was replacing it with in terms of motors.

The weight would be "one" of the biggest considerations for me. TWenty pounds or more is enough to affect how the boat will sit, feel and preform.
1989 22' C-Dory Angler

1997 19' Sea Ranger hardtop with Alaskan bulkhead

Seattleflyfisher

Bird, now that you are almost ready to jump start thinking about the install, if you want to change where the cables come from? There are a few covers for the cables on the market? Hydraulic steering?
I used the boat show last year as my show front. I looked at every motor that was mounted!

Sff

strokersquid

actually i like the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. it smells like victory ! :dance: ( actually i do like it, though as others have said with the new direct injection motors you do not get the nector of the gods smell when you start and run it anymore  :shrug9:) my kicker is an old 2 stroke and i run it at times just to inhale the intoxicating odor. ok, that part is not true. my point is the new di strokers will give you the power spurt you are used to and not the odor you and your snooty dock mates don't enjoy ( you poor misguided wretches ) don't shy away from an etec or even a optimax if the price is right. yamaha and tohatsu do not make di strokers in the lower HP range.

Threeweight

#30
I spent a couple of hours talking to Don from Arima before I re-powered.  He had no worries about a 340# or even 400# motor on a 17' hull (for the record, the Optimax 90 is a 400# motor, heavier than any of the Japanese 4 stroke 90's).  ALL of the new Arima's are coming with Honda's that weigh just as much as the motor you are looking at.  The weight difference really isn't anything to stress about.

Don's advice was to view weight in the stern as a ride and trim of the boat thing, and to always seek "balance" (he actually cracked a couple of Buddha jokes).  You want to be able to adjust the trim of the boat wherever you want it, including bow down so that the sharpest part of the hull hits the chop first.  Stern heavy = rougher ride.  Really stern heavy (as in lots of extra fuel, ice, fish, etc... back there) also means bad fuel economy, as the rear ends up wanting to plow rather than slide over the top of the water (I had this problem last summer Tuna! fishing).

On the 17' Rangers, Don's advice was to fill up the freshwater tank in the bow and keep it full.  Folks who move the batteries forward accomplish the same thing (moving roughly 100# off the stern into the bow, and mounting it down low for good center of gravity).  Don's advice for my 17' Chaser was to remove my porta-potty, get a square bucket, and fill it with all of my halibut weights and down rigger balls, and put it in the cuddy in place of the porta potty.  I actually did this and it worked great.  A set of Smart Tabs really helped as well.

Come to the Neah Bay gathering in May and you will see 16' and 17' Arima's carrying loads that makes the extra 80-100# you are looking at seem like nothing.  Just remember that you have that extra poundage back there, and when you load the boat up in the future you do need to make sure you are loading the boat in a balanced fashion, with some heavy stuff in the bow to keep things in trim.

The one thing I would say could be a safety issue is where the dealer who originally rigged your boat cut the hole for the cable steering.  On my boat, that hole was cut WAY down low, and in windy following sea I could sometimes get slop coming in though that hole.  I believe a number of us have experience that in a 16' or 17' hull.  I solved it on my boat by patching that hole and switching to hydraulic steering.  Some have built a clam type cover out of starboard and sealed it.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Slacker

I have a problem with the math, how do i pencil out a new etec 90hp {white of course } for my 17sc when my 1987 70hp yamaha  blue smoke billowing  ,peta  hating  mosquito killing, fish an bird polluting  , women an children crying , 2 stroke has nothing wrong with it?
Do i get rid of it because it,s old?
slacker

amazing grace

#32
Sorry, I am just anal about a heavy stern. If you are dealing with a 90hp on a 17', you are fine period. 

Slacker, go for it. Your 70hp has value with such a beautiful list of qualities.  They SELL! :smile1:
1989 22' C-Dory Angler

1997 19' Sea Ranger hardtop with Alaskan bulkhead

So.Cali

#33
Slacker, I understand where you are coming from but for me it was easier. I realized that as my old motor got older, and things start to break and wear out, it's gonna need parts. These parts get harder to come by through the years. I also like to go out as far as I can reasonably go so the fuel consumption between the motors of old compared to today's motors is quite different. I really liked what the E-Tec had to offer in the ways of reliability and fuel consumption. When I got mine, BRP had a promotional package that just sweetened the deal. I considered weight as well. I don't run a kicker motor, but I have a fat ass, so every bit out helps. The E-Tec has no problem with power and just sips fuel. Starts without a problem every time and is warmed up and ready to go in minutes. If you get a chance to go for a ride in an E-Tec powered boat, go for it. I enjoy mine. The peace of mind is great that I don't have to worry about the motor working or not. I suppose any new motor today will give you that peace of mind.

Seattleflyfisher

Slacker, the only reason you buy that new motor is piece of mind. If your 70hp is perfect then there is no reason for new. It will just be a matter of time for a new motor though and the brand or technology of a buying a 4 stroke or buying into the 2 stroke is all it really comes down to.


SFF

Slacker

I like NEW...I would Love NEW white 90hp ....But i am still not there, Too old an lazy ,no trigger pulling just taking it on an off safe...
I can say that new will give you a feeling of security but it is still a mechanical device.
Just bought a honda civic  in 2011 an in less that a thousand miles i had a wheel bearing  go out 
I guess i am real old school ( caveman old ) why replace whats not broken.
slacker

Yachter Yat

Hey Threeweight:  What did you mean by "ALL of the new Arimas are coming with Hondas?"  Is Arima/Defiance rigging with motors? If they are and equipping with Hondas, all I've got to say is... :smile1:

Yat
History is not the past; it's the present, as we all carry it with us......James Baldwin    
16 SC/Honda 60  (sold)

woody

Slacker

It doesn't pencil out. 

Woody

amazing grace

Ahhhh, come on Woody. There is all kinds of folks putting on new motors that cost 2-1/2 times what their boat is worth. Whattya  talking about, "it does'nt pencil out"? :food: :smile1:
1989 22' C-Dory Angler

1997 19' Sea Ranger hardtop with Alaskan bulkhead

Threeweight

Owning a boat of any kind is not compatible with the principles of honest financial accounting  :facepalm:

Yachter, I should have said all of the new Defiance-Arima boats at the show were Honda equipped.  Defiance maintains a relatively small dealer network in the NW, and does mostly direct sales.  They rig their boats with Hondas (but I understand they will do other brands if the customer requests it as a special option).

I'm not sure what that means for the Arima dealer network.  There were several 2012 boats (with the white hulls) at the show that Don and others had "borrowed" from dealers in the Northwest to fill out the booth at the show.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

birdman

BOAT=bust out another thousand.  That's what was happening with my old 2 stroke.  Every 2-3 trips something new was going wrong that required a trip to the mechanic.  I'm handy but I don't diagnose that well.  I could've spent the money to keep getting it fixed, but peace of mind is a nice thing.  I certainly am not buying a new motor just because of no smoke, that's just gravy on top of the potatoes.  Lastly, buying a motor that is worth way more than the old hull?  Well, I'm not sure I can explain that.
Terry; 17' Sea Ranger (1985); 90 HP Yamaha (2012)

So.Cali

Realistically, the motors on our boats typically account for about 2/3's of their worth. A new motor just adds to the value, and your peace of mind. They use a lot less fuel too!

Hydro-Therapy



So Cal I like that accounting  2/3 motors, 2/3 boat, 1/3 electronics and such. If you say it fast enough to the wife it will all add up. Just don't tell her you are into a 15k boat over 20k and there is no way to ever re-coup the difference. :party: :doh: It is all put on : I need it to be safe !!!

  H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

Seattleflyfisher

Guys lets not look at the real numbers. I know this first hand on my tub of money. I will say I m the kind of guy that most Likely would never buy a new boat. So with every improvement on my boat it gets me closer to my New boat. My new motor took me from a used to a new boat. Also remember guys you don't need a big credit card or a wad of cash to buy the new motor. You can make the deal and then make payments to the dealer. Go get that motor!


SFF

So.Cali

HT, I'll go along with that! The motor makes up about 80% of the value on mine. She still has a ways to go before being real nice. Im just happy it works, and I can take it fishing. I still have a few gremlins to work out of it.

StreamFixer

Woody taught me this valuation method:

A used 17 Hull, in good shape, is worth about $7K, of course other sizes will vary a bit.  Then add the trailer, motor and electronics values, plus whatever extra goodies are offered.

Seems to be pretty accurate

StreamFixer
'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu