Author Topic: 1kw transducer  (Read 3977 times)

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Seattleflyfisher

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1kw transducer
« on: September 11, 2012, 10:25:54 PM »
I just picked up a Raymarine e7d and my P74 is not cutting it. Looking a putting my P58 transome transducer back on. Is there anybody with a 1kw ducer?  What can you see?  Japan, China?


SFF

Offline Wyrguy

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 11:11:44 PM »
SeattleFF, What can you see?  Japan, China?... No, but you could probably ping the seals away from your catch (or get chased down by those nasty Canadian Navy anti-sub experts) I got talked out of the 1kW transducer... used mostly if you're DEEP fishing I was told (and costs WAY more too) I don't need to 'see' whats at 1000 to 1500 ft. It would probably just scare me anyways! I have the 600 watt Airmar p66 with my Raymarine E120W... works great up here!

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins where the land ends!
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Seattleflyfisher

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 06:19:40 AM »

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 06:27:26 AM »
What size of transducer does it take to see you downrigger ball?


SFF

Offline Chuck Jones

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 06:40:09 AM »
Iv'e seen my DR ball using the standard transducer that comes with the HDS 5...using the shallow water setting.  I watched it bounce thru a herd of salmon (YEAH I know it's NOT a herd)  and work it's way thru the whole herd...with no results.  Frustrating.  It was set on the 87 khz...ping speed 14.  I know you know that the size of the cone in shallow water isn't too large....and I don't recall the formula for cone size according to depth.  But at 15-20 feet, you're only seeing about 5 feet across the diameter of the cone.  Gets pretty large at 100 feet.
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Offline Wyrguy

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 06:47:25 AM »
SFF, I'm not so sure about others, (Tuna! guys?) but I'm not usually fishing at 50 mph!  :shrug9:  Sorry, couldn't resist  :facepalm:

As far as seeing the downrigger balls, yup, I can see mine (at times) but mine are BIG balls (15 lbs) and a buddy fishes with those pancake types, can't see his on his sounder. I believe that the abiliy to 'see' that sorta thing is based more on the resolution and refresh rate of your head unit, and yes more power would be useful, but only if your going deeper. Some electronics wizard can probably help me out here  :anyone: I just know that the $1350 vs $280 cost of the add-on DS module for my Raymarine head unit (and the additional battery power it would 'eat') wasn't something I thought I needed. I was told that a lot of the Pro fishers use those high powered units for intimate looks at bottom structure, When I drag a lure/bait past the fish, I'm not worried about what they are laying on...  :twocents:

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins where the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250 O/S & T9.9 Yamahas c/w iTroll
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer c/w stainless disc brakes
Raymarine E120W, Digital HD Colour radar, Scotty HP 2106 DR's c/w 15 lb glow ballzzzz!

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 06:53:30 AM »
I agree on the speed :biggrin:  why do you think they call me Seattle Fly Fisher :redface:

My e7d does not need a dsm module so I'm just looking at what's out there. I can pick up the 1kw for $700. Not sure what the p66'is running.


SFF

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 07:40:54 AM »
I can see my down rigger weights really easy.   They are right there, on the shop floor   :shrug9:

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Offline Kimbrey

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 04:51:39 PM »
I have the P66 for my Raymarine stuff.  I was surprised how well it worked in the deep water this past May when we went halibut fishing.  As you recall I had my electronics stolen out of the boat just a bit before halibut opened up last spring.  In the process of replacing everything I ordered the 1000W unit as my dsm can pump out 1000w.  Finally got home from AK a little over a week ago so now all I have to do is figure how to mount the thing.  It is BIG, BIG, BIG.  I was surprised when I opened the box. Power never hurts though.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Offline Wyrguy

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 05:10:15 PM »
I can see my down rigger weights really easy.   They are right there, on the shop floor   :shrug9:

StreamFixer

I can see mine fine... even in the dark!   :anyone:

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins where the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250 O/S & T9.9 Yamahas c/w iTroll
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer c/w stainless disc brakes
Raymarine E120W, Digital HD Colour radar, Scotty HP 2106 DR's c/w 15 lb glow ballzzzz!

Offline Kimbrey

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 05:57:28 PM »
Here's the size difference between the two ducers.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 06:55:08 PM »
Greg

Did you have the 1k before?  Do they both show very detail bottom pictures


SFF

Offline ak-angler

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 07:40:43 PM »
Meh.

I'm not exactly impressed with the video posted above. Even the cheapest, lowest quality sounder with the cheapest, lowest quality transducer should be able to hold bottom lock in 50 feet of water at cruise speeds. If it can't, I'd say the 'ducer isn't mounted properly, or it's picking up interference from other electrical circuits. And, before somebody comments about how fast that boat is going, it really wouldn't matter, since the speed of sound in water (which is how a 'ducer works) is about 3300 mph. You'd have to be going really, really, really fast to outrun a transducer ping.
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Seattleflyfisher

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 07:52:36 PM »
I'm not really caught up in the speed video. Just trying to an idea of how clear the 1kw pickes up the bottom detail.


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Offline Kimbrey

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Offline ak-angler

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2012, 09:14:56 PM »
As far as picking up detail goes, I have no doubt that any 1kw transducer would be head and shoulders above the 600w units, which would be loads better than the 250w units that typically come packaged with most sounders.

Of course, without knowing what the bottom actually looks like, there's no way to know how well the video shows the advantages of the much more expensive transducer. If they had a split screen showing the same track with both the 1k and a lower powered unit, it would mean something. Otherwise... meh.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Offline Hydro-Therapy

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2012, 05:16:44 AM »


 Kimbrey did you ever get the 1000 watt transducer installed ? My curious mind wants to know if it improved the detail.


 H-T
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Offline Kimbrey

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2012, 08:53:42 AM »


 Kimbrey did you ever get the 1000 watt transducer installed ? My curious mind wants to know if it improved the detail.


 H-T
No not yet.  Seems like I get pulled one way and then the other.  I should be able to get on the job today but probably won't be able to plop the boat into the water until next week.  Going tuna fishing Friday with a guy from BD.  I just don't think I'll have time to get my boat ready for tuna this year.  Anyway I'm still a bit confused of where to install it.  When I was in the process of purchasing the boat I had the consignment dealer install the tabs.  I gave them instructions on where to put the tabs as per Arima and then when I picked up the boat they were 4 or 5 inches away from the sponson.  I have the choice of mounting in between the edge of the tab and the sponson which a "step" in the hull will come into play or mount on the inside of the tab which the ducer might affect water flow to the prop.  I think I'll mount on the inside.  If there is a performance drop well then I'll have a big job of moving the tabs.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Seattleflyfisher

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Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2012, 10:20:17 AM »
That is the same place I'm in. With the smart tabs in place very little room for transducer.



MAD :redface:

Offline Hydro-Therapy

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 10:34:05 AM »
 With trim tabs on I went out to the sponson with mine.Other wise it would be in the prop wash. Mounted a piece of Starboard and the proceeded to make shims for the negative angles. It works fine out there. I did go to the inward side of the sponson as not to hit it on the dock or to catch lines. It has been there for almost 2 years with out an incident.


   H-T
 
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
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Offline Kimbrey

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2012, 12:40:08 PM »
I was thinking I wouldn't have a problem with prop wash as the ducer will be forward of the prop and to the side a bit.  Just not the recommended 6" to the side.  My main worry is messing up the water flow to the prop.  Of course my thinking could be completely wrong.  That's happened once or twice before. :biggrin: :biggrin:
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Offline Hydro-Therapy

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2012, 07:47:03 PM »


 To my understanding the reason for the 6" offset is to avoid picking up interference for the spinning prop and showing your lower unit at the top of the graph. Thus blocking a portion of the picture. It is like someone standing in front of the TV when trying to see your favorite football team make a touch down. :twocents:


   H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

Offline Kimbrey

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2012, 07:53:13 PM »
With trim tabs on I went out to the sponson with mine.Other wise it would be in the prop wash. Mounted a piece of Starboard and the proceeded to make shims for the negative angles. It works fine out there. I did go to the inward side of the sponson as not to hit it on the dock or to catch lines. It has been there for almost 2 years with out an incident.


   H-T
 
The 1000 watt ducer comes with 3 shims so that will be handy.  Use whatever is needed.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Offline FISHSTALKER

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2012, 07:57:54 AM »
Airmar FAQ -
http://faq.airmar.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=1&id=134&artlang=en

I bought my P-66 + for around $135-.  $135. vs. $750 leaves a Grand Canyon sized cash gap for making your choice.
The difference is already listed in the FAQ. What it doesn't mention is for what use and exactly what purpose will you use it? For that kind of cash($750) I'd be looking more in the direction of the CHIRP broadband ducer.

The 1000 watt is designed for up to 2500' depth vs. 1600' depth with the P66. Besides commercial fishing which most have now moved on to the more expensive CHIRP systems, the 1000w was used for wreck finding (treasure hunters/ divers) and bottom mapping.
As stated in the FAQ less ringing = clearer ID. If you fish real deep and 600 + more dollars is of little concern then ....

With my P66 I locate Kings in freshwater down to 300' and that pretty much maxes out my ability to reach them.
91' Sea Ranger 19' cabin 91 Merc 115, 05' Honda 15, Furuno FCV 585, Cannon DT20's, Bert's track sys.

Offline Vancouvertechie

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2012, 08:29:56 AM »
I would have to agree that most of us are not going to be fishing below 500 feet on a normal basis.  Possibly a halibut trip or two below that number, but how many bait checks are you going to do?  Unless you have a powered reel?  Eh, Finn Finn or Grizzle? 

The only reason I would think of fishing that deep is for Swordfish at 1500 plus feet, but that requires a much bigger boat and more advanced fishing tactics. 

VT
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2003 15' SeaHunter 50HP Suzuki (FI4Strk)
1991 16' SeaChaser 50HP Johnson (Keith)
1995 19' SeaRanger 115 Yamaha (FI4Strk)

Offline Kimbrey

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2012, 09:46:16 AM »
I don't think the advantage to the tm260 vs P66 is just a deeper depth reading.  According to some of the reviews I've read the tm260 is 50 times more sensitive at 50kHz and 13 times at 200kHz.  In theory you should be able to see a salmon at 50' better than with say the P66.  I'll let you know when I give mine a try this week.  Hope to leave for CQ tomorrow if I don't get jammed up here at home.

CHIRP sounds interesting.  Beside ducer the rest of the stuff sounds expensive or was the last time I looked.

Commercially or at least in my world of fishing the main sounder of choice is the Simrad ES70 (http://www.simrad.com/www/01/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/2928D36857652582C125763F0049D99D?OpenDocument).  This is made by a different division of Simrad the stuff we would buy.  We run three ducers.  38kHz, 120kHz & 200kHz.  All are what are called a split beam so the ducers have several elements in them that will fire at different times during each pulse...if that makes sense.  I actually can see sole on the bottom with the 120kHz.  Haven't heard of anyone trying the CHIRP but it might not reach deep enough.  Though I have fished in 8 to 10 fathom 20 fathoms is shallow for us.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth

Offline Threeweight

Re: 1kw transducer
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2012, 10:46:02 AM »
Hey now, us Oregon halibut fisherman have no choice but to fish deeper than 500'.  For the most part, our shallower areas are pretty poor in terms of #'s of fish produced.

That said, I use a 1000 kw Airmar and a 3-4 year old Garmin sounder w/ a 10" screen on my friends boat regularly, and I am not that impressed.  I think the ducer' could give fantastic target separation, but the older Garmin technology just can't display it very effectively.  To really get the most out of that transducer, you need a digital sounder and a high resolution screen.
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