Learning Outboard Maintenance

[redbaronace]

New Arima owner in SEATTLE, who just picked up a 19' SR with twin 45 4 stroke Hondas.  I figured that given the newer model of engines that they would provide many years of relatively trouble free enjoyment.  In the initial test run, it did idle a bit rough, but chalked it up to the fact that it hadn't been run in a while.  Turns out that after the 3rd time out, the engines are still running somewhat rough.

My plan all along was to learn how to maintain the outboards in order to keep boating affordable for my family.  What I didn't realize is that the time would come so soon.  Thus my questions is, how did the folks here who perform their own routine outboard engine maintenance learn the process?

I am reluctant to bring the boat to a mechanic or shop as I will not learn how to do it myself by doing so.  Any knowledgeable folks here willing or able to help a newbie learn the ins and outs of outboard maintenance.   My goal is to get my boat running in top top mechanical shape.  I am not looking for a handout and am willing to compensate some, but hoping that it is more on a doing me a favor in exchange for some extra cash basis. 

Your responses appreciated.

[So.Cali]

I bought the seloc repair manual for mine, then got frustrated with it, and bought a new motor. works great now! Joking aside, a seloc manual can help out a lot. getting into my old engine reminded me a lot of motorcycle stuff, which I have a lot of experience in. I would consider doing a basic tune up first, and go from there. ie; plugs, oil, and filters. probably wouldn't hurt to run a bottle of sea foam through the fuel tank.

[Seattleflyfisher]

Sea foam!   Not sure what the bottom of the inside of your gas tank looks like but it might be a winter project of cleaning it out. Run those motors with sea foam.


SFF

[allpauwork]

Doing you own minor maintenance items is always a good idea to know how to do them.  I had two older outboards that I tinkered with but at some point I did say UNCLE and got one new and one newer outboard for my two boats.  My current "new to me" Arima hasn't even been fired up yet as I'm redoing many things on the boat after it sat for 12 years but have already started looking around for a new motor.  My excuse is that I'm getting too old and want to get on the water.   

[Lucky1]

I'd run some sea foam through the both engines.  Also, check the fuel/water separator/filters.  Have you put any fresh gas in the tanks?  

A rough running engine could also come from a misfire somewhere.  I'd find out (from a reptuable dealer) what they will charge to hook up your motors to their computer to run a diagnostic test.

Are you sure both engines are running rough?    

[amazing grace]

Congrats, sounds like a neat boat. Post some pix so we can check her out. Honda's are great engines. How many hours on them and what year are they?
For me, I would find a good Honda marine dealer. Inquiry about  a service on them. Bite the bullet and get them running well. Then do routine maintainence to keep them running.   

[Threeweight]

I'd skip the Seloc manuals and try to find a genuine Honda shop manual on Ebay.  More $$, but the factory manuals have much better detail.

Honda 4 strokes running rough?  My first guess would be fuel related, probably gummed up carbs.  Running some sea foam through it, off a portable tank, might help.  Worth a shot.  Most likely going to need the carbs tore down, cleaned, then put back together with new gaskets.  That job is not too hard, but it isn't easy either.   You definitely want a manual.

[Chuck Jones]

You've had a number of excellent suggestions here...but in truth, even though you want to get to the point where you can do your own maintenance, you're likely to spend a lot of time chasing down unknown gremlins when a good Honda shop can find the problem quickly, fix it, THEN (as previously suggested) start your routine maintenance.  You need to baseline your engine with the proper carb settings, possibly a carb kit, fuel line checks. (I spent a lot of money chasing down a fuel starvation issue and when I finally changed to a new engine, the shop found a kink in the fuel line IN THE BACK of the gas tank where I couldn't see or get to it).

That's why I think that you need to baseline your engines...get them sync'd, running well and reliably, then go for the manual and ongoing maintenance.  There's really not much to do if you keep your engines running periodically thru the season.  Running sea foam thru them once in a while is a great habit to get into.  The worst you can do is what I did....let the boat sit for a couple years covered up but unattended...electrical contacts get corrorded, wiring gets brittle, connections arc and come loose, hose fittings loosen up, gas lines degrade, the bulb gets cracks in it, zip tied hose connections need to be changed out,  the gas in the bottom of the tank gets old and plugs up the pick-up tube, carbs sit with old gas that turns to varnish and clogs low and high speed jets, floats stick, batteries go flat, your sacrificial zinc annode needs replacing, etc etc etc.  Many gremlins start to live in high density housing in an engine that's sat alone and lonely.  OR.... you can get lucky, run some sea foam thru it, change plugs, check your water pump for good flow....and be off wit ya' laddie.

[rusty scuppers]

I'm with 3wt. on this one, a honda shop manual is the way to go, yes they cost more but it would be for your engine specific. As far as maintaince goes you might be able to get an owners manual an little or no cost for your engines, they can help alot, my yamaha manual even has a troubleshooting section I imagine honda would have it too.

[SR17inBC]

Redbaronace...How old is the fuel? I would start there first. I've had more problems with bad fuel than any other combination of problems. Empty the tank and start with fresh fuel. Second, try Seafoam the engines, then replace the plugs. If that doesn't improve things, start with a compression check, then start with the fuel system, then look to the carbs. Let us know how it goes.

[Markshoreline]

If you'd like to save money do as suggested- drain all the old fuel from the tanks and lines, add non ethanol gas with a strong dose of sea foam (1 pt in 10 gals- this time of year you can do this at 20 gals) along with the plugs and drain and replace the on board fuel filter and the ones in the motors and run it all through.  You didn't mention if the roughness is at idle or at speed but I'm guessing  idle. 
If you still have the issue have a competent shop look at it- you probably don't want to tear through 4 carbs then synch them as a rookie! 
Best wishes and let us know your course of action.

[finfinn]

Seafoam? What the .... is Seafoam? Would you use it in the fuel in addition or instead of Stabil? Or just run some through sometimes? I dump some of the blue stuff in each time I put gas in the tank and double the amount if the boat sits for a month or more. Should I foam the darn thing too?

[StreamFixer]

Finn

Seafoam ...  you know.... that yucky brownish yellow stuff you sometimes see when fishing in salt water.  Sometimes it is blowing down the beach during stormy weather.  Just grab a handful or two and stuff it into your fuel tank... 

No Worries Mate   :whistle: :hoboy:

StreamFixer

[Keel-er]

Johan,
Sea Foam is a fuel system cleaner/fuel conditioner that they sell down here.  I've used it for years both prior to winter set up and at least once during the season.  White can with red lettering.  The same company makes a spray for carbs called Deep Creep.  Similar to Power Tune at de-gumming carbs.  Good stuff, in my experience.
Will no doubt use some on my F100 after I get my fill of fall salmon fishing (?????) :hoboy:
Chris

[strokersquid]

Johan,
Sea Foam is a fuel system cleaner/fuel conditioner that they sell down here.  I've used it for years both prior to winter set up and at least once during the season.  White can with red lettering.  The same company makes a spray for carbs called Deep Creep.  Similar to Power Tune at de-gumming carbs.  Good stuff, in my experience.
Will no doubt use some on my F100 after I get my fill of fall salmon fishing (?????) :hoboy:
Chris

sorry to steal a thread but i found somebody else who had an f 100. Keeler, does yours backfire idling and require a very gentle touch to get off idle ? After that i'm fine and i have no complaints compared to  my old kieth. My f100 is  a 2002 with about 300+ hrs if the PO is to be believed

[La-Z-Buoy]

RBA,

You can get the owners manuals off of the Honda Marine web site. Just need the Serial Number and you can download it free. They charge for the hard copy. They also have the service manuals offered thru their Ebay site.

Richard

[croaker stroker]

+1 on what everybody said.

Carbs need to be syncronized now and then to idle smooth. Before that, they need to be clean. Seafoam will clean them if they are not seriously gummed up. Fuel should be thrown out if it's over a year old. Fuel tank should be clean and all clean filters. Stabil will prolong the fuel from becoming gummy.

[redbaronace]

Thanks to everyone who responded.  Yes, I will try the seafoam mentioned in this thread.  I have used it in the crankshaft and gas tank of my cars but never into the intake (which causes much smoke), though I heard this is it's most effective use in carbon buildup cleaning.  This is my first boat ever and I did not know these engines had carbs as I thought they were fuel injected.  I will read more about the procedure and give the seafoam treatment a try.  I will be the first to admit that I am a novice when it comes to boat maintenance, but can do minor auto engine repairs and have a decent array of tools at my disposal.

Some more details of my boat purchase.  The seller was in his 70's and a longtime boat owner.  He had done alot of recent work on the boat in the past 2 years (new canvas, trailer, starboard, bottom paint, all new electrical, chartplotter, VHS radio, uphostery, 3 batteries, charging system, downriggers, crab davit, etc) and poured quite a bit of funds into the boat.  He sold due to age and health related issues which prevented him from being able to operate it.  I took him at his word that the engines were fine and compression was strong across all cylinders.  I do feel he is an honest guy.  My basis was that if he had spent this much RECENT money on upgrading the entire boat, surely the engines were good.  Perhaps I should have had them checked out as they ran slightly rough during my 2 hour water test drive.  The main thing being one engine conking out periodically if left idling for a while and in general both operating less than completely smooth.


It came with 30+ gallons of gas in the tank and the seller claimed to have removed and scrubbed the fuel tank sometime during his 2 year ownership.  That being said, I'm not sure how old the existing gas in the tank is.  I will use non ethanol gas exclusively in these engines going forward.  In fact, I still have around 20 gallons of the old gas in the tanks still and planned to use it up first and start with non ethanol gas from that point.  I know of a family owned independent gas station in North Seattle whom sells non ethanol gas and I plan to fill the boat up there.  I was also planning to use the Techron injector cleaner (Costco) in the current tank of gas to see if it had any benefit.

Truthfully, at this point I have spent most of my available boat funds on the purchase of the boat itself and associated gear (PFD, basic fishing equipment, bumpers, etc) and am not able to just take it to Honda to get the work done.  Were I to go that route, while convenient, I would not learn how to work on these engines which is my intent of reaching out to this community.  I am a hands on person who learns best by watching and asking questions.  From going this route, I have gotten pretty good at house remodeling over the years.  Perhaps if someone was willing to assist me in the boat maintenance, I can help them in some house projects which they require a hand with in exchange.  Just trying to show that I'm not simply looking for a freebie, but an opportunity to save and learn.

My gratitude to those who responded and continue to respond.

[So.Cali]

My house could use some help! it might be a bit of a drive for ya though. . .

Anyhow, your honda's could be carbed or injected, depending on what year they are. Either way sea foam is good stuff. it will clean injectors as well as carbs. If your going to add the techron additive, why not fuel up at chevron? Their fuel has techron in it. The ethanol in the fuel shouldn't be an issue for your engines. However, if you have the gray type fuel line, that does not hold up to the ethanol, and can clog filters and carbs. You want to run a black fuel line. Check with a local marine shop for the correct line, they'll know. Apparently nobody is a fan of seloc manuals here. I've had pretty good success with them myself. The hard part with them, is that they cover many multiple engines per manual. I'm sure the factory manual is far better, but they cost a lot more. I bought a honda manual for my dirtbike, and it was a hundred bucks! Very discriptive though.

[redbaronace]

Thanks for the offer, and yes California is further than I am able / willing to go.   :smile1:

I will use the non ethanol gas station for all my boat filling needs.  Its my way of rewarding this small independent station (Spirit on 35th Avenue N.E.)  for going against the grain and offering ethanol free fuel for those of us who would seek it out.  While it costs about 30 cents more per gallon, I figure it will be better for the engines.  I do plan on using the boat all year around even if its just putting around on the local lake (Lake Washington).  Hopefully by doing this, I will have less issues which I understand can haunt seldom used motors.

The key is to first get my engines working well so that I can focus more on leisure and fishing with this new to us boat.

[amazing grace]

You might also look at a product called Tron. It too, is a fuel additive. Seems like it is a reconditioner for older fuel. I am not completely up on it, but a marine dealer highly recommended it. Might be worth looking into further.  I still would take to a Honda marine dealer with a good service dept and start there fwiw.

[Seattleflyfisher]

Is this the place for non ethanol gas?

http://www.ohmygas.com/gas-station/Bill-waters-spirit-9500-35th-Ave-Ne-Seattle-WA-98115/103653

[redbaronace]

Is this the place for non ethanol gas?

http://www.ohmygas.com/gas-station/Bill-waters-spirit-9500-35th-Ave-Ne-Seattle-WA-98115/103653

Yup, that's the place I get my gas.  Was pretty consistent in putting only this into my car for the longest time.  Now it seems like im in the truck always and it takes whatever cheapest gas I come across which is typically Arco or Costco.

[Keel-er]

Chris
[/quote]sorry to steal a thread but i found somebody else who had an f 100. Keeler, does yours backfire idling and require a very gentle touch to get off idle ? After that i'm fine and i have no complaints compared to  my old kieth. My f100 is  a 2002 with about 300+ hrs if the PO is to be believed

Strokersquid, I have not had any backfiring issues at all with my F100.  It idles smoothly and has a solid transition from idle to under power.  I did have an issue with the overheat sensor in that the wires got loose and when I'd hit the throttle, the wires would apparently move around some and this would cause the motor to sputter a bit then catch full.  My faithful mechanic root-caused the issue and corrected it.  I definitely like the motor.

Chris

[Markshoreline]

Redbaronace,
It sounds like with the previous owner's health that fuel in the best of worlds would be two years old.  I realize that 30 gals of fuel is worth $120+ in today's market, but I would get it out of there and replace it with fresh fuel spiked with Seafoam.  Maybe you have an old truck or a neighbor that could burn it?