Author Topic: Auto bilge wiring question  (Read 6125 times)

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Offline cbunk

Auto bilge wiring question
« on: February 19, 2011, 02:56:09 PM »
I'm getting ready to install my automatic bilge.  I'm not sure if it should be wired to a switch or if I should just hardwire it.  So how's yours setup?? :anyone:
1991 17' Sea Chaser
1991 100hp Mercury
1993  9.9hp Mercury

Online polarbill1999

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 03:06:14 PM »
I would think you would want your auto bilge connected to the batteries whether it be directly to the batteries or througha bus bar.
Brett
1996 Sea Chaser 16 the "Rhumb Runner"
70hp Envinrude VRO
6hp Tohatsu 4 stroke

Offline Danno

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 04:08:45 PM »
Which type of auto-bilge do you have? One with a float or the type that cycles on every couple of minutes? The float types can be wired through a fuse directly to a battery or on a trailerable boat like an Arima, you can wire it through a switch in there because you don't need it powered up while it's on the trailer. I would tend to take it right to the battery via a fuse that's located as close to the battery as possible.

The cycling type of auto-bilge need to be on a switch otherwise they will wear down the battery pretty quickly if the engine's not charging the battery. They usually have a OFF/ON/AUTO switch so that you can leave it in auto while in the water. If you dock your boat a lot, you should consideer a float type to eliminate the concern about wearing the battery down.
Previously owned a 1998 19' SR

Lures are designed to catch fishermen not fish.

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 04:24:28 PM »
I have my "electronic float" type Rulemate 500 controlled by a fused bilge pump switch with manual and auto positions, it is momentary on manual, will stay on in auto.  It is powered from by electronics battery (forward) directly (ahead of the house master breaker/switch) so my starting battery is by itself.  I need the pump to work when it is on the bouy.  In auto I calculated that it will handle at least 6" of rainfall on one battery charge.  Worked great last season.

 
'84 SR17 Restored '10 Honda BF90

Offline corky12

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 08:10:35 AM »
I kept the original 500 gph pump w/switch and added a new auto 750 gph rule that I wired directly to the battery. I plumbed it right into the motor well because it was easy to do and I didn,t want to mess with going thru the side. I think you really need 2 pumps. Sometimes you don,t realize how much water is in the bilge untill that auto pump comes on .-  John

Online Threeweight

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 09:50:20 PM »
Go with a three way switch.  Pump should come with directions... that way you will have off/auto/manual-on options, and you can test the pump as needed.

If you have not bought your pump yet, check out "The Whale" brand auto pump... very compact and has a built in sensor to trigger the auto (vs. the kind that self-tests every few minutes that can kill your battery.)

Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline cbunk

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 09:14:49 AM »
Thanks for the input guys.  The one I bought has an internal float with an option for a three way switch.  I decided to go with the three way switch option because I like the idea of being able to use it as a second manual bilge or in the automatic position as well as the option to turn cut power to the unit while the boat is trailered.  I'm also thinking about relocating both units further back towards the transom but still with in reach of the fish box access hole for an occasional clean out as needed. 
1991 17' Sea Chaser
1991 100hp Mercury
1993  9.9hp Mercury

Offline fishing eagle

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Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 05:10:16 PM »
Mounting the bilge pump aft toward the transom makes good sense to me. Yet when I changed out my bilge pump with a new auto/manual pump I really could not come up with a good way to relocate the pump further back from that access port hole in the fishbox. I couldn't really find a way to redrill pilot holes for screws to mount the pump base. I did thing to use silicone or adhesive to mount the base but was concerned with blocking the intake holes in the base or the bilge pump coming loose when I most needed it.  That 4 inch port in my fish box didn't allow much room for working on the pump or getting my hands into without me enlarging the access hole. I did not consider that at the time.

I would still like to add a second bilge pump closer to the transom to help remove bilge water when I use my washdown pump. I am open to suggestions and hope that you will share what you are able to do with all of us here on the forum. Thanks in advance for sharing.
(Reel Delight) a 2001 Sea Ranger 19, 2003 Honda 90, 2010 Yamaha T8 w/power tilt, Panther T4 steering system, Hummingbird electronics, & Scotty 1116 electric downriggers.
U.S. Navy Veteran, member of U.S. Power Squadron & Past President of Lake George Fishing Alliance (Retired & ready to fish!)

Online Threeweight

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 05:34:58 PM »
I used fast-cure 3m 5200 to glue down the base for my Whale pump.  The intake for the pump is not located in the base on it, but rather a few inches forward of it.  I sound like I own stock in the company, but the horizontal design of this unit really does make a lot of sense for the limited space we have in an Arima.

Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline cbunk

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2011, 08:58:08 AM »
I also have an idea on a way to wire the 3 way switch.  I was thinking of wiring the manual side of the switch to both pumps giving the manual side a sort of dual mode.  Then of course the other side would go to the single auto bilges auto mode.
1991 17' Sea Chaser
1991 100hp Mercury
1993  9.9hp Mercury

Offline SRanger

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2011, 09:09:29 AM »

Nice Pump 3WT!

Wonder if you could get access closer to the rear of the bilge by removing the fuel tank?  A lot of work unless you are already thinking of pulling the tank for something else...like a new Wema fuel tank sensor:)  Thought I saw a hole thru the floor (under the tank location) into the bilge in some of the photos with tanks removed.
99 19' Arima Sea Ranger HT,  Honda BF130/BF8.
88 17' Arima Sea Ranger ST,  Yamaha F80/Merc 8 (sold)

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2011, 09:22:00 AM »
So SRanger,   If you remove your fuel tank to install a fuel pump, what are you planning to carry fuel in??? :doh:

StreamFixer
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline SRanger

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2011, 09:34:50 AM »

Good point Streamfixer!   Originally I had planned to reinstall the tank after adding the fuel gauge.  Now you got me thinking...but no smart alec replies are coming to mind.  Will work on it:) 

One thing is for sure...my Keith needs lots of fuel!!  Wonder if a 6gal aux tank would fit under the bait well...currently have a 4 gal kicker tank with premix oil and gas.
99 19' Arima Sea Ranger HT,  Honda BF130/BF8.
88 17' Arima Sea Ranger ST,  Yamaha F80/Merc 8 (sold)

Offline Danno

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2011, 09:40:30 AM »
  Wonder if a 6gal aux tank would fit under the bait well...currently have a 4 gal kicker tank with premix oil and gas.


I had a Honda 6 gal portable tank under my 19' SR baitwell. It should fit under yours as well.
Previously owned a 1998 19' SR

Lures are designed to catch fishermen not fish.

Offline fishing eagle

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Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 10:07:11 AM »
Cbunk I suggest you wire each pump independently with its own switch. That way you have redundancy. One switch would be acceptable to a higher amperage due to the starting current of both pumps starting together. Plus if the single switch or its circuit fails... you have no bilge pump.
(Reel Delight) a 2001 Sea Ranger 19, 2003 Honda 90, 2010 Yamaha T8 w/power tilt, Panther T4 steering system, Hummingbird electronics, & Scotty 1116 electric downriggers.
U.S. Navy Veteran, member of U.S. Power Squadron & Past President of Lake George Fishing Alliance (Retired & ready to fish!)

Offline cbunk

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2011, 12:24:40 PM »
Good point Fishing Eagle. :doh:  I'll leave the original pump alone and go ahead and wire the second one independently.  That way there's a backup if need be. :clap:
1991 17' Sea Chaser
1991 100hp Mercury
1993  9.9hp Mercury

Offline woody

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2011, 01:01:10 PM »
You know, if you guys used 5200 when you drilled holes, you would not need all those bilge pumps. Just a thought.

Woody

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 01:06:25 PM »
If you think Woody's suggestions are helpful here, you should do a shop project with him   :doh: :nono:

StreamFixer
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline fishing eagle

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Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2011, 04:11:59 PM »
I think Woody has stock in 3M and gets some kind of kick back on every tube of 5200 sold.

If Woody's bilge pump fails he will just mount another one someplace near by the other that is permantly fixed to the hull with 5200.
(Reel Delight) a 2001 Sea Ranger 19, 2003 Honda 90, 2010 Yamaha T8 w/power tilt, Panther T4 steering system, Hummingbird electronics, & Scotty 1116 electric downriggers.
U.S. Navy Veteran, member of U.S. Power Squadron & Past President of Lake George Fishing Alliance (Retired & ready to fish!)

Offline First Cabin

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 01:33:01 PM »
For you guys that have added a second bilge pump;

How/where are you routing the discharge?  What size line?  Anyone have pictures?

I like the looks of that Whale Pump.  This is on my To-Do list.
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Online Threeweight

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 02:09:22 PM »
Different volume pumps will require diifferent hoses... they will have a fitting molded into them.  The one I used (I think it pumps 800 gallons per hour) uses a 3/4 inch hose.  Avoid the really thin white plastic hose w/ pleats... it gets kinked easily.  West Marine (and probably other places) sell a type of bilge pump hose that is made of clear PVC-type material, very flexible, with a hard plastic spiral re-enforcement molded into it that makes it impossible to kink or crush--go with that stuff.

Re: the discharge... I ran mine into the motor well on the port side, up pretty high (just under the bait well bottom).  Advantages -- you don't have to drill through the hull, foam, and liner (just one lay of glass and gel coat), and it gets it up and away from the possibility of waves pushing water into the boat through the discharge.  

A hint--take you time with this project.  Clean the area of the bilge you intent to mount the pump very well with Simple Green or something similar, then go over it with acetone or the like, the rough it up with coarse sand paper, then clean with acetone again.  Put a thick coat of fast cure 5200 on the mount, and stick it down.  Best if you can keep pressure on it in some way (hard to do, but I had some success using a piece of pool noodle foam cut to size).  Let it dry for 24 hours, then come back and attach the hose.

If you don't clean it very well and a have a completely dry surface, the 5200 won't stick.  If you try and connect the hose before the 5200 is fully cured, the torque from the bends in the hose will peel it all back up.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 02:13:39 PM by Threeweight »
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline First Cabin

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 02:50:59 PM »

 I ran mine into the motor well on the port side, up pretty high (just under the bait well bottom).  Advantages -- you don't have to drill through the hull, foam, and liner (just one lay of glass and gel coat), and it gets it up and away from the possibility of waves pushing water into the boat through the discharge.  

Put a thick coat of fast cure 5200 on the mount, and stick it down.  


That's kinda what my plan is.

Where did your route the hose?  Did you drill another hole in the platform behind the gas tank to take the hose out of the bilge?  Then did you put a through hull hose barb in the motor well or did you just drill a hole and hang the hose through?  If you put a through hull fitting there, does the bilge pump splash the water all over the motor well or did you direct it out the back somehow?  I'm just thinking that if I have the boat moored with the main motor tilted up, the bilge pump would be directed right into the side of the motor.  It would be nice to come out with an elbow and direct that water over the transom, especially as that little drain near the transom sometimes gets clogged.

One last thing.....how are you ever going to remove the pump?  I love that 5200, but it seems a little too permanent for this.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 03:33:36 PM by ejthomp »
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline First Cabin

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2011, 03:30:15 PM »
I'm just playing a little Murphy's law here....

Suppose you somehow managed to take enough water on board that the rear of the boat submerged enough for the water level to be over the rear boot in the motor well (where the steering cable enters the boat).  How much water would you be taking on with that boot submerged?  Would the bilge pump keep up?

The reason I ask is that last year while bottom fishing out of Neah Bay, my fishing partner and I were both standing in the extreme back of the boat and I was using the kicker to keep us in position.  I wasn't paying any attention to the waves splashing in the motor well as I backed into waves.  After a while I noticed and said to my partner..."Hey, we're sitting kinda low back here."  I looked in the fish box and we were full of water!!!!  Luckily all it took was for me to recognize the problem, turn the boat around and switch on the bilge pump.  That bilge pump sure ran for a long time!!!!

After that trip, I modified the boot where the steering cable enters the boat and reduced the ease at which water can flow in there.  And I began to think about installing an automatic bilge pump!

Something to think about though....  I've seen plenty of Arimas with torn boots and that hole is sometimes very close to the water line....
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline Danno

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2011, 03:44:01 PM »
It's good to understand Murphy's Laws if you're going to take your Arima out into the ocean.

I would definitely consider a second bilge pump, and with a high preference for an automatic one, to be an essentially piece of equipment in the open sea. The choice is yours as to whether you buy the electric float system or the mechanical one but I would definitely have one.
Previously owned a 1998 19' SR

Lures are designed to catch fishermen not fish.

Online Threeweight

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2011, 03:49:21 PM »
Re: routing the hose... the stock bilge hose runs through a hole under the edge of the fuel tank on the starboard side, under the bait well, to the outlet through the side of the boat.  You could probably fit a 2nd hose through there.  When I had the fuel tank out, I drilled a second hole on the port side (same basic location) and rain the hose for my #2 pump through there.  I used a 3/4 " thru-hull hose barb, and sealed it up against the hull w/ 3m 4200.  It drains into the well... I am not too worried about it overwhelming the drain hole in the motor well... if it does, it will simply run over the top of the well.  I have seen some Arima 17's powered by chunky 4 strokes (*cough* Streamfixer *cough*) where the lip of transom routinely gets water coming in over it.

Re: removing 5200... its hard, but not impossible.  The only reason I can foresee now for removing my pump is to replace it with another one of the same make/model should mine burn out.  

Re: taking in enough water to submerge the outlet in the motor well... check the location of the stock outlet on the side of your boat.  You might be shocked to see how close to the water it is... my motor well outlet is mounted at the same height (as close to the bottom of the bait well as I could get it), just draining into the motor well instead of straight outside the boat.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline First Cabin

Re: Auto bilge wiring question
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2011, 04:08:23 PM »

Re: taking in enough water to submerge the outlet in the motor well...


You misunderstand me.  I'm talking about taking on enough water to submerge the boot where the steering cable enters the boat in the motor well.  That is the real weak point.    If the boot is torn, water will just pour in the boat faster than any bilge pump can take it out.  And we're really only talking about a few inches.

I'm not very concerned about the outlet of the bilge pump.
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8