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Bucking Bronco

Started by StreamFixer, June 15, 2012, 08:07:36 AM

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StreamFixer

I, and others, have discussed the Arima's rough ride in chop before, but, after yesterday, I thought it worth bringing up again.

Woody, a colleague and I went sturgeon fishing yesterday in my 19SC.  This was the first trip in it after installing my smart tabs.

As we were moving across nearly flat conditions, Woody remarked how much smoother the boat was riding that the last time we had it out in similar conditions.  Later in the day, with a modest chop, it was even more noticeable. 

The spray was coming from under the hull at the 20 to 25% mark rather than the 30 to 50% mark it had been without the tabs.  Does not sound like much, however, it is enough to get the V in the hull engaged instead of running, and pounding, on a flat bottom.

It is our opinion that there is nothing you could do to your boat, in the $100 to $150 range that would improve the comfort, and efficiency of operation, of running your boat. 

We discussed electric and hydraulic tabs that are adjustable in the cockpit.  However, most folks with those systems (that we have observed) usually find a setting they like and then seldom move them.  Others move them a lot.  Then again you are talking considerable more than $100 to $150 for the system and have yet another electric or hydraulic system to maintain.

So, hopefully next someone posts about rough ride and poor hole shot (my 19SC planes at 12.6 mph with around 700# of passengers and their gear, butts on the seats) they will remember the cure is pretty cheap.

StreamFixer

'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu

CanvasGuy

There's No Doubt At all...jury is in..
ALL Arima's Should have at least Smart tabs..other wise it's pound and more pound.. :yeahthat:
I have heard that for years,
when referring to Arima boats in my many discussions about boat types with my customers and friends..
the main Complaint about these boats, is they pound and are Pricey ,cause there's not much else to complain about.. :biggrin:

so when I discovered trim tabs... my life just got much smother..and I love my little Fat boat..and I adjust them at every run depending on the water conditions and weight 
distribution..
and then with an older hull..SMART RAIL A MUST HAVE..Soooooo much drier...and more stable in large waves and swells as in Bar crossings and Rough weather..
wouldn't have another older Arima without them... :yeahthat:
my :twocents:
CGBE
Gary Smart
boatless  now
http://www.smartcustomcanvas.com
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." Arthur C. Clarke

Hydro-Therapy



   :yeahthat: So much for the Sermon and Testimonial on trim tab. How Was The Fishing ???  And where did you go ????


  H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

Enniberg

Russ, I think I recall you went with the 80 lb actuators on your 17 - did you do the same on your 19?

johan
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. (unknown)

woody

H-T

Fishing was gorgeous, beautiful day with great buddies.

We fished out of Grey's River on the Columbia.  For non-Oregons, that is basically slightly east and across the river (Washington side) of Astoria.

That area has a lot of shallow areas so it does take a bit to thread the needle to get to the "freeways" where Sturgeon play at low tide.  All crew members keep a sharp lookout for changes on water surface and depth alarm is set with one set of eyes on the DF.  Not hard to go slightly left or right of the markers (placed 15 years ago so a bit "iffy") and find yourself aproaching 3 feet.  Muddy botom, but still walking through glass.  Fish in 20-30 feet of water under stern with sand scrimp. First timers ... take an orientation with an experienced skipper and put lots of markers on your screen.

We didn't catch anything (no pictures posted , so nothing happened... Russ is processing).  But IF something happened it was one around 4' (book says ?33 lbs?) and one around 5' (book says ?64? lbs).  The smallest and the largest in keeper sturgeons.


When Russ process the snaps and we post I will change this from NUTTIN happened to SOMETING happened.

Did talk to FinFinn on the phone who had just started fishing about 10-15 miles north of the Columbia.  At that time he said four hook ups with one keeper.  Salmon.

Woody

StreamFixer

Quote from: Enniberg on June 15, 2012, 08:51:20 AM
Russ, I think I recall you went with the 80 lb actuators on your 17 - did you do the same on your 19?

johan

Yes, quite adequate.  Probably more than needed on the 17 with it's present lighter motor(s) (Honda 90 & 8 w/o electrics  vs  Yamaha 115 & T-8 with electrics).

Made the port tab stiffer by 1 notch and starboard softer by one notch.  Balanced well, but with 2 folks on one side and only 1 on the other, still a bad list.  Simple solution, have one of the other guys move to center and 'Walla' you are now in trim.

StreamFixer
'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu

CanvasGuy

Quote from: StreamFixer on June 15, 2012, 10:00:43 AM

Balanced well, but with 2 folks on one side and only 1 on the other, still a bad list.  Simple solution, have one of the other guys move to center and 'Walla' you are now in trim.
StreamFixer

now why didn't I think of that..Trimable fishing partners.. duH :doh:

Gary Smart
boatless  now
http://www.smartcustomcanvas.com
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." Arthur C. Clarke

StreamFixer

Quote from: CanvasGuy on June 15, 2012, 10:05:57 AM
Quote from: StreamFixer on June 15, 2012, 10:00:43 AM
Trimable fishing partners.. duH :doh:

I could use some 'trimming'.  Maybe I could fit through Grizzles eyebrow window then  :whistle: :jester:

StreamFixer
'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu

croaker stroker


I just poke my fishing partner in the side and he knows to move left. Trimming the other way, I move right.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Kimbrey

I have the hydraulic tabs which do work well but they have auto-retract when the ingnition is switch off so I always have to reset each time I fire up the main. Kind of a pain. I've considered adding the angle indicators but the cost. IE they think an a lot of their indicators.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth—Sold—replaced with 28' Farallon Walkaround

ak-angler

I don't know what brand of tabs you have Kim - but on the Lenco's the auto-retract is controlled by the orange wire. Unplug that, and no more issues with having to reset every time you turn the motor on.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Kimbrey

Quote from: ak-angler on June 15, 2012, 02:35:49 PM
I don't know what brand of tabs you have Kim - but on the Lenco's the auto-retract is controlled by the orange wire. Unplug that, and no more issues with having to reset every time you turn the motor on.
Thanks AK. I have Benett's which has a separate module for the auto-retract. It should be an easy unplug also but knowing me I'd probably forget and ding the tab putting the boat on the trailer.  I did turn 60 a bit over a week ago...bring on the GINKO!! I don't mind spending money on the boat but it just irks me that the cost for a rocker switch with some LEDs to show tab angle is $263 at BOE!!  Holy Schmoly!!
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth—Sold—replaced with 28' Farallon Walkaround

FISHSTALKER

Is there a brand preference?
91' Sea Ranger 19' cabin 91 Merc 115, 05' Honda 15, Furuno FCV 585, Cannon DT20's, Bert's track sys.

StreamFixer

Quote from: FISHSTALKER on June 15, 2012, 06:27:11 PM
Is there a brand preference?

If you are asking about the smart tabs, I am only aware of one manufacturer.  http://www.nauticusinc.com/smart_tabs.htm  they have a chart for choosing the appropriate tab for your boat based on length.

As far as electric or hydraulic tabs ...... I am Sgt Schultz....   :shrug9:

StreamFixer
'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu

Kimbrey

I only know of two of the powered tabs.  Benett's which are hydraulic and Lenco which are electric.  There are probably more makers out there but I don't know of them.  As what is best, electric or hydraulic I'm Schultzie's twin.
The Smart tabs sure has it's appeal.  Tweak, set and forget or at least that's what it sounds like.  So far I'm a bit confused where my hydraulic tabs are when I start pushing the switches.  Get it where the boat feels ok but in a bit of sloppy weather it's hard to tell if I'm in the sweet spot.  Then you have the tilt of the engine that also comes in to play.  Engine tilt really does have a lot of affect on my boat.  I think I just need more experience with them to figure how to best run them.  I suppose forking over the $$$ for the switches that tell the tab position would help.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth—Sold—replaced with 28' Farallon Walkaround

Kimbrey

Oh yeah...What Russ said.  Pushing the bow down some really helps the ride with our boats....a lot.
2005 Sea Legend --Sold--replaced with 26' Duckworth—Sold—replaced with 28' Farallon Walkaround

ak-angler

In regard to adjustable trim tabs, Bennet and Lenco are the two big players. But there are others. Insta Trim makes hydraulic tabs, and Lectrotab makes electric units.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Grizzle

Does anyone make a pair of hybrid tabs that are dynamic like smart tabs and also have a manual adjust capability?
Brook Stockton - My Boat: Mighty Molly - The Fish Monger - Arima SeaChaser 16 - Soft SkipTower and "The Rack"

SALTBOSS™ MARINE - Offshore Marine Products & Fabrication - http://saltbossmarine.com - brook@saltbossmarine.com - 206-953-SALT (7258)

croaker stroker

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

wedocq

The insta-trim 12x8 are the ones the Arima factory uses. This is what I installed, around $300 if I remember correctly.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki [glow=red,2,300]DF175 [/glow] 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

GoodDays

I have Bennets on my 17... they are awesome. Adjustable is nice as I can trim the boat out based on the weight of the passengers.... or if I am alone.. No annoying list !!

GoodDays Greg

Chuck Jones

I noticed that there are different sizes for different boats.....insofar as the Smart Tabs go...what is the consensus for the right size for the SR 19?  I dont' have any room in the back sponson lockers for anything other than batteries and the TR-1 hydraulic brain and gallon Oil tank. the Smart Tabs seemed to be the easiest and most economical way to go...provided they can actually do the job.  They're in essence a "dumb terminal" in that you set them for a designated tension according to the weight distribution of the boat.....but if you happen to pick up another "large passenger" or some additional gear, you might find that the settings you originally put them at aren't taking care of the problem.  This means that you have to go ashore or to a dock and readjust the tension on the actuators to compensate for the new weight distribution....whereas with the Bennett or Lenco, you can adjust from the helm???

For those of you running Smart Tabs....how do you find the changes in weight distribution affects the list on the boat?  When you run into that problem....do you just ask folks to shift over to the other side??  Because that is what I do without the tabs...and the boat levels out.  I think what I want is to be able to stabilize the list without having to manually hang over the side or go into the dock to change the settings.  How difficult is it to change the settings if you're out in the middle of the lake or whatever.???
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

CanvasGuy

#22
I Have

LENCO 12X9 with indicator switch.
Tabs Mounted close set to sponsoons as 1/2 inch.. inboard
Done and Done..NO more problems..
only 600.$ worth of  Wave riding pleasure and no more annoying lists.. :yeahthat:

As Stated many times...Many ways..

These Arimas All  NEED TABS..NO doubt.. Just How much is it worth to make a Great Boat Really shine..?
as for the Price and that seems to drive most of you...
you may find a set without switch  indicators cheap as some sets of Smart  tabs...
and you can adjust on the fly..as should be..


OR get Smart Tabs And Adjustable Boat HO's...

and live with it..

MY  :twocents:

CGBE
Gary Smart
boatless  now
http://www.smartcustomcanvas.com
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." Arthur C. Clarke

Chuck Jones

CG:  Is the 12 inches the measurement of the length it would take up on the transom and the 9 the depth of the tab?  I would really prefer a shorter run against the transom...dont' have to drill more holes to move transducers etc.  Currently running two transducers....took the paddle wheel off since GPS handles speed along with the pitot tube.
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

Wyrguy

I ordered my boat from the factory with the trim tabs so I don't know how it handles without them but after having (and riding) in other boats without them, I knew I wanted them on mine. Some research I did included this info from the Bennett site, yes it's a bit skewed towards hydraulics over electric but the reasons and the sizing chart seem helpful.  :twocents:

http://bennetttrimtabs.com/guidetotrimtabs.php

http://bennetttrimtabs.com/trimtabkits.php?cID=1

I also like the ability to be able to adjust 'on the fly' if needed.

Rick
'Arima Therapy' - Life begins where the land ends!
2012 Sea Legend HT, blue hull, S/S 6 rod rocket launcher/radar arch
F250XCA O/S T9.9 Yamahas Yamaha Command Link Plus  iTroll throttle control
Aluminum I-beam EZ Loader trailer
Raymarine E120W, Digital HD Colour radar, Two Scotty HP 2106 DRs