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hose won't stay on kicker

Started by strokersquid, May 28, 2012, 09:19:20 PM

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strokersquid

Bought an Attwood hose and bulb new for my Johnny 9.9 sailmaster kicker.female connecter fits but falls off. if i pull back on the lever it will stay until it is bumped but i would not trust this on the water .Is this just a bad fit ? or do Attwoods not fit well ?

Threeweight

Had this happen on my old Johnson... look at the little stainless steel clip that "locks" into place to hold it on.  For mine, I was able to take a pair of needle nose and bend the lip of the clip out just a tad.  Not much, but it was enough to allow it to lock in place.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Defiance 250 Admiral, twin Yamaha 150's and T9.9

"Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

strokersquid

on the motor or on the line ?

Hydro-Therapy



   I had the same thing happen with a 9.9 yamaha. Found the attwood fitting to have poor tolerances , We ended up taking the old one off and putting on the new hose. It is frustrating to pay the high prices they get for this stuff and it is junk.


  H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

strokersquid

Quote from: strokersquid on May 28, 2012, 10:37:16 PM
on the motor or on the line ?
i get what you mean now. i  bought another from Waly's and if the new one does not fit i will try your trick

Keel-er

had the same problem on my Merc 8hp and it turned out to be a bit of rubber flash (excess not removed from when the fitting was molded) and once I cleaned that out, it worked fine.  I do agree with the general concensus that the fittings are pretty shabby quality overall
1986 Sea Ranger 17 "Nancy Lyn"-Sold
2020 Yamaha F90
1995 Sea Ranger 19
2023 Tohatsu 140
2020 Yamaha 9.9

strokersquid

Quote from: Threeweight on May 28, 2012, 09:47:56 PM
Had this happen on my old Johnson... look at the little stainless steel clip that "locks" into place to hold it on.  For mine, I was able to take a pair of needle nose and bend the lip of the clip out just a tad.  Not much, but it was enough to allow it to lock in place.
did that and it worked like  a charm! thanks !

Chuck Jones

Maybe this subject can help me.  I had my Arima in storage for a little over a year and a half. I had it properly covered with a complete sunbrella cover, but the Yamaha ProV 150 2Stroke did sit out in the sun in a tilt up position...consequenly I've had to completely drain the tank, (yes it had about 5 gallons of old gas in it..my bad!) replace the filter, replace the impeller, fuel pumps, and put in a carb kit.  I bought two thermostats just in case, but never had to use them.  The problem I'm encountering is when I try to go over 5K rpms (not for a continual run, but just a speed check)...it will run ok for about a minute or less, then start sounding like fuel starvation.  I replaced the squeeze bulb at the time of the carb kit...and this discussion has me wondering if the problem might sit in the bulb?  I did save the old one and the squeeze bulb appears to be smaller than the old one, if that's an issue at all. I bought the new one from the Yamaha dealer so that shouldn't be a problem...or should it? It runs fine at about 4200 and lower, and the speed/rpm ratio in the higher range has been consistently 1K higher than the speed...in other words, at   3400 rpm I'm running 34 mph...4200 rpm; 42 mph. I can cruse ok at 26-36 mph, but if I try to go into WOT or above 48K it starts slowing down acting like starvation.  If I have my brother go back and squeeze/fill the bulb, it picks back up again and runs for a while till I hear the rpms dropping off (easy to hear on a 2 stroke!!).  I've had the mechanic out for a sea trial after the carb kit installation and he adjusted the carbs....and we were in really rough water so it was difficult to run it at WOT or in the higher rpm range....he did hear it drop off a couple times and that's when we went in, left it in the water on the trailer and replaced the fuel pumps, took it back out and...it seemed to take care of it, but again, rough water prevented a good run.  Thought it was resolved till I went out with my brother yesterday for some stripers on calm water where I could leave it at high rpms for a while to see what happened....it happened.  I also noticed that at idle, every so often I'll get a little hiccup like a very slight hesitation in a cylinder...then it idles ok, then a hiccup.

Looking for some ideas or suggestions.......the molding tab in the bulb does interest me and I'll pull it and check it out, or replace the old line and bulb.  This is a good lesson for anyone who stores a boat for a long time...do whatever it takes to preserve the reliability you had before you stored it.   I don't think that anyone on this forum stores their boats for that long...most of you are out there using them as they should be.     
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

strokersquid

how about the fuel pump in the motor ? carb needle valves not letting enough fuel in the carbs ? i don't think the bulb size should matter at all since the limit is the diameter of the fuel hose in that circuit.

Hydro-Therapy



Chuck I also don't think primer ball is your problem. You stated that you cleaned out the fuel tank. This can leave small particles of gunk ( no see em's) that can plug a fuel filter real fast. Your fuel pump may be strong enough to pull fuel though for the lower rpm's ,but not for the  wot. Another thing that may clog filter is junk on the inside of the fuel line itself. from old gas sitting in it.Weird stuff happens when things sit around for awhile. My boat had sat for 2 years before I got it and had a bunch of gremlins in it.


  H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

Chuck Jones

I replaced the two fuel pumps....as outlined on the initial explanation when I first ran into the problem....the mechanic diagnosed it up front and had me buy a couple fuel pumps before we went out on the sea trial and he replaced them on the water when the engine started crapping out.  Don't know where to turn except to the possibility of an air leak somewhere that's causing the fuel flow to fall off when the carbs suck major vacuum....pull more fuel in that's inhibited somewhere in the system....an air leak in the fittings to the filter?  How about the fact that both the Pro V and the 9.9 Yammi 4 stroke pull gas from the same tank?  If the 9T is up on the hydraulic mount and then further tilted on it''s own hydraulic tilt...could the fuel bowl drain and possibly suck air thru the 9T's carburator?      Where could air get in to inhibit the fuel flow?

I've been in touch with a dealer who has an 08 150 four stroke in the crate he wants to sell me for 11K....but I'm ambivolent about spending a total of around 12K out the door for the engine,tax,  remount the new one, run it for proof of life etc....the rest of the accesssories like cables and controls should be a plug and play...including the existing connections and functionality of the dashboard tach, oil gauge etc.  Waddaya think?  I don't have a buyer for the older ProV....but that's something I'd have to try to negotiate....I don't want a used 150 sitting in my garage for a year.  To say I'm ambivoltent is an understatement.  Yes...no...maybe.???
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

Hydro-Therapy


Chuck it very possible you are getting a air leak from the 9.9.I have seen this happen  a bunch of times.

To check if this is the problem ,just disconnect the fuel line at the motor of the 9.9 and go for a run.If this is the problem it is easy to fix.You install  a anti-syphon barbed fitting (one that has a check ball in it) to the line that feeds the 9.9 at the fuel filter. The fitting is less the $10.

  H-T
Fish forever Work whenever !!!!!
"89" 19SR Keith 115 Merc. 15 4s kicker W/trollmaster Raymarine A70D

ak-angler

If your motor is sucking air, the kicker line is a definite possibility. But, so is every old fuel line and connection. Just a tiny crack in a line will let air in under high vacuum conditions. Most often this happens under the clamps at the fittings.

Could also be a clogged vent on the fuel tank. Or, a bad anti-siphon valve - either at the tank, or in the bulb. If the bulb never collapses, I doubt it's either the vent or the AS valve at the tank. But, it could still be the AS valve in the bulb.
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Chuck Jones

First of all, thanks guys for the feedback on possibilities....ALL of which I'll go and check.  Since the engine is a 91 and the fuel lines are undoubtedly of the same vintage, I'm going to cut out about an inch or so and re-attach the lines with the clamps.  I may also put the old fuel line and squeeze pump back on....but first I'll run it with the fuel line to the T9 disconnected.  No sense causing myself a lot of work if I can eliminate the easiest task.  Then I'd move to putting the old fuel line and ball pump back on, followed by re-attaching the the fuel filter under the transom since it's easy to get to....If I do it in sequence, and it stops the problem at any given point, I'll fall back on the old adage....if it works, don't fix it.  HOWEVER....after 20 years it might not be a bad idea to replace old fuel lines.  The T9 runs great, but it's not sucking major vacuum even at high rpm....the ProV on the other hand with three carbs at WOT would demand a lot of fuel and in so doing, pull in air from a small slice or crack in a hose.

Thanks again guys for the intuitive thoughts and suggestions.  Great forum.  Here's wishing all of you screaming reels.

Chuck
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

strokersquid

got an outboard tank ? you could run off that. if it runs ok, then it is the fuel line and/or tank. if not its in the engine.

GregE

+ 1 on AK's comments.

An ozone crack in your bulb will open at high draw but the engine idles fine-  first hand  knowledge on that one.   :redface:
Greg
2005 SL 22 Honda 225 Kodak II
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT, Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat; SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Chuck Jones

GREAT idea....except I sold the 3 gallon tank at a garage sale.  Shudda otta kept it....but I can borrow one from someone for a test run.  That would be a great way to isolate the problem then start on the search and destroy mission to hunt down the errant line.  Another great idea from the forum audience.
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

strokersquid


Markshoreline

As with bringing any old boat up to snuff, swapping out all the fuel lines, connectors, bulbs and etc. is a really cheap way to solve/eliminate problems.  I did this and then was able to determine that I needed to replace check valves and fuel pick up tubes as well.  I can say with confidence that i have no fuel system problems today.   :beerchug:

Mark
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

StreamFixer

Quote from: markshoreline on June 07, 2012, 10:09:55 PM
I can say with confidence that i have no fuel system problems today.   :beerchug:

Mark

Really enjoy tempting fate do you??? :hoboy:

StreamFixer
'01 Hewes Sportsman 18
'14 Yamaha 90
'01 T8 w/ solas 4 blade
'19 Minn Kota 80# (Alterra)
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top


"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu

Chuck Jones

StrokerSquid: I live in Elk Grove....a burg just south of Sacramento.  Liverwurst lives here too.   We've been doing a number of projects together....even managed to take his boat out for .....ready for this?......FISHING!!  So far we've just been working on mine fixing this and that....and he's been putting in his radar tower, electronics,  and wiring in lights etc...so most of our interaction has been doing "stuff"....until we finally said $crew it....these boats are meant to be ON the water.so we went and it was great.  JW's 21 hums like a sewing machine with that 150 4 Stroke...definitely need to get out more...and we will soon.

I talked to the mechanic at Buck's outboard and he told me that he thought trying to use a portable tank wouldn't have a gas pickup big enough to handle the flow rate of a V6  at WOT.  Dunno, but I hadn't thought of that.   He was also of the opinion that I should disconnect the fuel line from the T9 first and try running it....then go to the gas pickup in the 48 gallon tank...but that means removing the tank to be able to remove the pickup.  I'd like to look at other options before I go thru removing the tank.
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

strokersquid

is the fuel line a bigger diameter on that 150 ? if not then why wouldn't an outboard tank work ?

ak-angler

A portable tank with a 3/8" line should feed that 150 just fine. 
1985 Sea Ranger 17 Skiff Top with 2012 Suzuki DF90A - Sold

2007 Cape Cruiser Marinaut 26 with twin 2006 Honda BF90's

Chuck Jones

Today I got together with Liverwurst and we traced down all the fuel lines.  Found a very visible hole in the line coming out of the gas/water separator...cut back any lines that looked hinky about an inch or more back and took out any plastic ties and replaced all connectors with stainless hose clamps.  Fired it up and it runs at 11-1200 rpm...and idles rough.  Before our "fix" it was idling at 7-800 rpm and starving for fuel at 4K.  Since I already paid the mechanic for the carb rebuilds, he's getting it back to adjust things now that I think I found the air leak.  Good call by the guys who suggested air leak in the gas lines.  Hopefully, that's going to be the source of the problem and a good carb tune may resolve my issues.

One thing I forgot to do when we ran it with the muffs on is I forgot to disconnect the T9 to see if that made any difference.  I think now it smells like it's running rich....fumes burned my eyes which is usually an indicator of rich...plus it would hiccup at idle.  Tried to adjust the carbs, but leaning them out didn't seem to do much.  I even turned the set screw on #2 all the way closed and it didn't seem to affect it....not a good sign.  leaning it all the way shut should have made it start to gallop.  Time for the expert.
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking

Chuck Jones

FINALLY ran down the problem.   The engine continued to run well at idle and up to about 3800 rpm....so a very knowledgeable retired engine mechanic went for a run with me. We took off the cover to the three 2bbl carbs and ran the boat up to between 46-5200 rpm and when it started to starve out, we began a systematic procedure of squirting carb cleaner into each of the two barrel carbs.  When we finally hit the errant carb....the rpm picked up and as long as you kept squirting the cleaner in....the engine would run.  Stop and it would drop one cylinder from fuel starvation and rpms would nose dive.  At least at this point, we can focus on that one carb in #4 cylinder...and most likely the high speed jet.  Although we tried putting a hand over the intake and sucking whatever it is out of the jet, it didn't work, and will require a tear down.   I'm very confident that we have the problem isolated...and I can put a little more time and miles on this engine before I go to a 4 $troke.  It's a '91 but only has 260 hours on it.  So far I've replaced the fuel pumps, thermostats, chased down and cut/reattched or  replaced all questionable fuel lines...put on clamps where we found zip ties, and replaced the water pump....so once it's running right, I should be trouble free for a while.  with a 2:1 gear ration in the lower unit, this 150 Yami makes this a fast boat when it runs right.
(91) 19' Sea Ranger HT....SOLD 5/2013
(07) 21' Sea Ranger HT.....SOLD 3/2014
(05) 21' Design Concepts ...4/20/14

I often have silent thoughts in my head, but sometimes I worry about what they're thinking