Access to wood transom portside

[mariner]

My 19SR has the OEM 4 bolt hole pattern on portside to mount the kicker bracket.   While this is sufficient, I have a 9.9 with power trim/tilt, electric start and a heavy duty garelick height adjustable bracket.... The bracket and kicker is heavier than the 2 stroke kickers which were originally mounted on the Pre-2000 arimas.   I would like to add an additional 2 through bolts from the kicker mounting plate through the sponson... However, the 2 bolts would be approximately 2.5-3" below the rub rail on the sponson.  I do not have access to the inside area due to the arima baitwell(i think that's what it's called).   I've heard some folks have cut into the baitwell to access the inside transom area in order to cut out a section and pull foam in order to get the bolt to adhere to the glassed in plywood.   Is there any other way to get this accomplished without cutting into the baitwell?  If you cut into it, how easy would it be to repair it?  I use it as a live well to keep live bait or to keep crabs/prawns fresh when they are caught.

[davidsea]

   I haven't done that exact spot, but had to do something similar on the other side to add both a boarding ladder and a second bilge pump outlet.  Measuring just by feel, I'd say you've got about 3 - 3 1/2" between the liner and the baitwell at the spot you want to drill..  Might fit a small air angle grinder with a very short carbide burr to cut the liner, but you'd still have to get the foam out, and there's no way you could see what you're doing. Using power tools entirely by feel isn't on my list.  Try the method I used for my boarding ladder:
     Required tools are 1/2" power drill, hole saw and arbor (3 to 3 1/2"), a long 1/8" drill bit (10-12"),  step bit, and a standard bit in whatever size you need for the bracket bolts.
     Method: 1)  Mark the exact hole location for the bolts on the outside of the hull, then drill with the long 1/8" bit  all the way through the hull, foam, liner, and into the baitwell.  2) using the 1/8" holes inside  the baitwell as a locator for the pilot bit,  use the holesaw to cut through the baitwell wall .  3)  Remove the plug you just cut from the holesaw and save it.   4)  Reinsert the hole saw through the hole in the baitwell, and using the 1/8" hole in the liner as a locator, cut through the liner and just into the foam.  5) Stop, remove the liner plug from the holesaw, and remove the pilot bit from the arbor.  6) Reinsert holesaw and finish cutting the foam down to the inside of the hull.  (The hole in the liner will center the holesaw for this short cut)  7) Remove any remaining foam in the hole.  8)  Use the 1/8" hole on the outside of the hull to center a step bit to drill the gelcoat the required size for your bolts. ( This is less likely to grab and chip the gel coat.)   8) Drill through the hull to final size with a conventional bit.
     To repair the holes in the baitwell,  tape the plugs you cut out (and saved) to the inside of the baitwell, cut a couple of larger circles of fiberglass and apply with epoxy resin to the back side, allow to cure, and then finish the inside gaps with epoxy filler, marine-tex, or whatever.

[BayWolf]

DANG!!  Davidsea!  Well done...well done indeed!

[mariner]

Thanks for the very detailed and clear instructions Davidsea.  Well thought out and makes complete sense.  If there is 3 to 3.5" between the baitwell and the liner on transom, I would assume there is an inch or 2 of foam?  If that's the case wouldn't I need a 3" circular hole saw bit that is at least 5 inches long?  If the hole saw bit is 5" long and I needed to attach the but to a coress drill, how would it all fit inside of the baitwell?

[DevMah]

Cordless angle drill

Dr

[mariner]

Cordless angle drill

Dr

Hmmm.. Wonder if there is enough room to get that angle drill with a hole saw bit in between the baitbox and liner

[Danno]

Cordless angle drill

Dr

Hmmm.. Wonder if there is enough room to get that angle drill with a hole saw bit in between the baitbox and liners

Don't get your hopes up

[davidsea]

    Looking at my boat today, I didn't remember how much curvature there is in the back of the baitbox.  Also, looking at the factory kicker mount holes on the sponson, that they are offset inboard towards the motorwell.  The outboard mount holes are very nearly lined up with the center of the baitbox, the point of least clearance between box and liner.  At that point, and with the tools I pictured, the method described would work well.  On the inboard side, though, the curvature of the box would make for a more difficult job, even though there's a lot more clearance because of the curvature.  I pulled one of the bolts I have plugging the mount holes ( I don't have a kicker) and measured about an inch of hull thickness before I got to the threads in whatever metal is back there for support.  A couple of options here :   
  The hull plus reinforcement (plywood ?) may extend high enough above the existing holes to include the new holes you want.  You can check this by drilling a 1/8" hole there, and by "feel" while drilling, tell when the fiberglass hull material stops and the plywood - if any - starts.  If it's reinforced that high up, I would drop the whole 'drill-through' program, and just run in a couple of SS lag bolts, lightly coated with epoxy, and lock washers - don't think they would ever back out.
  If there is no reinforcement there, then do the center (outboard) one as described, and try to do the inboard side by cutting the liner and scooping out foam from inside the boat, rather than through the box.  It will be a nasty job, but at that location, there's more clearance and at least a partial view of what you're doing.
  The drill/holesaw I pictured will just fit inside the center of the box, and should work well.  The 3 1/4" holesaw shown will allow the chuck and nose of the drill through the drilled hole, up to where the numbers are on the clutch, giving enough depth to cut the liner and into the foam.  Bear in mind that most holesaw mandrels for saws big enough for this job are 7/16", and will not fit in most right-angle drills - their 3/8" chucks are too small.   Tip:  Those 7/16" mandrel shafts are 7/16" hex, not round, so if you're cutting soft material - like foam - a 7/16" socket on an extension and a ratchet work just as well as a drill.

[croaker stroker]

How is the bait well attached ?

[mariner]

Davidsea, good point about checking to see if there is reinforcement such as added layer of plywood behind the glassed in wood/fiberglass layer.  I suspect not since it's the sponson area.  I was able to poke around the 4 kicker bracket mounting holes ad did not see a very thick layer of glassed in wood/fiberglass.  I know there is a metal strip used as reinforcement and has the nuts welded onto it to allow the Bolts to adhere to.  I did not notice any additional reinforcement.   Even without reinforcement, I wonder if 2 lag screws would do the job without having to cut the inside liner and/or the baitwell.  I'd say 95% of the weight and stress is placed on the 4 bolts that attach to the OEM holes that came from the factory.  The additional 2 bolts or lag screws would give additional support since my kicker mounting plate is longer vertically rather than a square shape.

Not sure who to ask now that Belinda is not around.  Wonder if anyone has an idea or a drawing of what's behind the sponsons and whether there is any additional reinforcement as in an extra layer of plywood etc.. My arima is a 1999 19SR HT.

[davidsea]

  CS:  Appears to be bonded - no visible hardware or fasteners, probably done when deck was upside down, before  joining deck ans hull.
  Mariner:  Ask member Chief of the Boat, he may remember or have pictures.  I have seen some photos on the site of Arima parts before assembly, but don't know if any will show sponson reinforcement.  Also may have changed over the years - mine is 1996.

[croaker stroker]

Your boat may be different, but my Sea Sprinter had plywood reinforcement.  I think it is only on the Port side.

There was no bait-well on this boat. There were seats instead.

[jamaica]

This is what I did with mine, 1994 19'SR. I did not need to modify the "bait well" in any way, there was enough room to get the job done but it was literally a pain in the back, neck and a few other places. Slow going. I removed the factory backing plates and replaced them with 1/4" x 2" 316 SS bars. Cutting was done with a Dremal and the hole was covered with starboard when I was done.

[davidsea]

  The problem that Mariner is having is that he wants holes about 3" above the  upper stock mounting holes, and the clearance up there, just below the rubrail and near the top of the liner, is tighter than where you had to cut

[jamaica]

Here is where my factory bracket was. I wanted to use the same holes.

[croaker stroker]

Isn't there blind fasteners on that bracket that you can re-use ?  I thought the factory installed tee nuts or some type of fixed nut.

[jamaica]

The factory fasteners shown on my previous post were SS carriage bolts through square holes in the bracket. The nuts were nylocks not attached to the backing bars in any way except lots of silicone. The backing bars were 2" wide (or so) X less than 1/8" thick.

[neild]

Okay, here's my theory, and it's only a theory so I'd love someone to try it before I do my boarding ladder.

-Mark and drill a 1/4" hole at the bolt location.
-Get one of the short cheap hole saws like pictured and remove the centre drill bit.
-put a long 1/4" rod (or whatever size the centre drill bit was) through the transom and liner.
-From inside insert the rod in the hole saw mandrel. And put the required holesaw on the mandrel.
-Chuck the rod in a drill from outside the sponson and run in reverse, slightly pulling on the hole saw. This should cut the liner and into the foam.

If the hole saw is still too long to fit you can cut the end off the mandrel above the locking nut as show. cut down it should less than 2" depending on the holesaw depth.

Let me know if it works before I try it!

[davidsea]

    neild:   Really good idea - looks much easier than other methods described here.  I think it would work great as you described, since you'd only be cutting liner and foam, not baitbox or hull.  Probably a good idea to grind a flat on the 1/4" rod for the mandrel setscrew to seat on - would help to keep it from spinning on the rod.  You'd also need a variable-speed drill with some torque at very low speed - fiberglass eats holesaws if you spin them fast.  I'd also want a trial run on some plywood or something - outside the boat - before I pulled the trigger on the transom.   
BTW, when I installed my boarding ladder on the sponson, I through-bolted the top mounts only, since that's where most of the stress is.  The lower mounts I just screwed to the hull and sealed with 4200 - seems to be O.K. so far.

[neild]

Thanks for the info Davidsea,

That ladder looks great! It is one of the many things I have to do over winter. I'll try to remember to snap some pics when I do it to share.

[Yachter Yat]

   I love davidsea's ladder mounting as well.  Beautiful job! 


Yat