Installing a second bilge pump

[Enniberg]

I have been wanting to install a second bilge pump in my boat for a long time, and I think time has come.

I am quite certain that there is a thread somewhere on the board covering just this issue, but I just can't find anything.

What pump for this application?

What is the best location for install? Does the tank have to come out?

What is the best way to wire it / discharge the water?

johan

[Markshoreline]

I'm about ready to do that also.  Belinda posted about this a few months ago, mentioning to install a hatch access cover in the bottom rear of the fish box and set the pump under that.  I'd like to hook one up there and set it up on an automatic switch.
Mark

[corky12]

I took my tank out and cut a small hole in the raised floor that holds the tank. I put in a 750 gph automatic rule. Per Woody I plumbed it thru the port rear storage and into the engine well. I didn,t feel like going thru the side of the boat and tearing it apart. The well in the back works fine. I wired direct to the battery switch with a fuse between. I left enough slack in the wiring that I can get to the pump and remove it if I have to by going thru the access port behind the fish storage area. Its tight but you can reach it. I did have to remove the tank to complete the plumbing. I,m sometimes surprised how much water gets in just by the normal usage. My livewell will sometimes overflow or light rain etc, and on comes the auto pump. Nice to have the standard pump and an extra one. - John

[First Cabin]

I too took my tank out and installed an auto-start Rule bilge pump on a separate fuse and switch wired directly to one battery.  The discharge comes out behind the tank and flows into the motor well near where the baitwell drain flows.

When I am moored, I turn the battery switch off and the auto-bilge on so it is the only thing in the boat drawing power.  I also run it while on the water and I think there may be a need.  I am satisfied with the arrangement.  I left enough hose and wire in the bilge so if/when necessary I can pull it out the access hole in the fish box to service .

[Threeweight]

Johan,

I installed a second one in mine a couple of seasons ago.  I used this automatic pump made by "Whale" in New Zealand.  It is more compact than the Rules and such, and fits in the Arima space better.  It also uses a sensor to detect water (change in electrical conductivity) vs. having a float to get stuck.



If you want to go the cut-the-fish-box route, the Whale is low profile enough that it would not stick up into the box.  I did not do that, I installed mine through the existing access hole in the fish box, kind of a pain.  Cleaned the hull thoroughly with Simple Green, then acetone, then scuffed it up with sandpaper.  Another acetone cleaning, then I glued the base down w/ 3m 5200 and let it set over night.  Used some foam pool noodles to wedge it down.  If you can, it would be easier to do with the fuel tank out (Arima has a hole under the fuel tank for this purpose).

I also wired mine straight from the battery (with an inline fuse), but I ran the + wiring up to a switch at the helm so I could turn it off.  My second pump is wired off a fused switch at the helm.

[Enniberg]

Steve,

where did you source that Whale brand pump?

What is the capacity (Gph)?

How did you route the discharge of water?

johan

[Threeweight]

West Marine carries them.  650 gph, I think they only make one size.  I routed the hose out through the motor well.  I had drilled an extra hole for routing the hose when I had my gas tank out when I first got the boat, so I had no problems routing it.

[Markshoreline]

john
what kind if fitting did you use to exit the tank into the splashwell?  that sounds like a good idea!
mark

[Enniberg]

Whoever gets down to doing this first should take a series of pictures to show how it is done step by step.

I think the part I am still a bit unsure about how the discharge is going to be routed.

Removing the tank is a problem for me right now - it is full of fuel that would take a significant number of hours to burn.

johan

[Hydro-Therapy]

 Johan  you have a couple of cars that need fuel.My wife's car is always in need of gas. By putting the boat fuel in them would insure fresh fuel in the boat and eliminate any problem fuel . Hense your tank would be empty and you can do the work you would like to do.

 H-T

[Fish On]

Johan,

I am also nearby should want to get rid of any surplus gas. I could temporarily store it for you and return what is left minus the "storage fee" once you're done with this project....

[woody]

Throw in some marine oil, and I'll take some.

Woody

[Turkeyburger]

I added a second bilge pump last year. It's a Rule 1100 automatic plumbed through the hull on the port side.

To make the through-hull I first drilled a pilot hole from the outside to mark where I wanted the fitting. Then I used a Dremel Multimax tool from the inside to plunge cut through the liner and clear away the foam, and a hole saw from the outside to make the final hole through the hull.

Ideally you would remove the fuel tank to plumb the new hose and wiring. I had a full tank too so I drilled a hole through the deck in front of the tank and sealed the exposed edges with epoxy before routing my hose through.

My pumps sit right inside the access cover, so they are easy to clean and swap out, quite a bit of water can remain in the back of the bilge. Having the pickup further aft would be nice.

You might also consider wiring the pumps to a small terminal block at the stern next to the batteries. That way you don't have any butt connector splices in the bilge or in the battery box, and the pumps and wires are easier to troubleshoot /swap out.

Also make sure all your wiring is watertight... at least in the back of the boat. I use only adhesive lined ring terminals. Or use adhesive lined shrink tubing to cover the end of the wire. That way moisture won't wick inside the insulation. I use a heat gun to heat the shrink tubing and adhesive.

If anyone know of a good way to drain your fuel tank I'm interested in hearing about it.

If I had it to do over I would remove the tank to allow access to the bilge, wiring, pumps, and hoses, upgrade the primary pump to 1100 gph or better and add a high water alarm.

[StreamFixer]

Please pardon my ignorance as I suspect it will really shine here. 

Don't bilge pumps come with check valves incorporated into them to prevent back flow? 

If they do, I would suggest you think about putting a 'Y' into the existing system thus eliminating the need for another hull penetration. 

If they don't it cannot be all that difficult of install check valves (aka back flow preventers) in the system.

But then again, this is something I have not investigated so I'm probably talking through my hat ----- again :hoboy:

StreamFixer

[LvrWurst 21 SR Skip]

Re: draining your fuel tank...I have done this with several boats by disconnecting my hose from the outboard...removing the plug that adapts to the OB...insert a piece of tubing into the end of the hose while adding enough fuel line hose to reach down to grade into a 5 gal fuel cans. Then prime the bulb on the fuel line and let gravity do the work. If the fuel is good, you could also insert the fuel line hose into your fuel fill on the vehicle. Good luck...JW

[the craw]

The whale pumps are also avalible in 500 & 1100 gph sizes. I saw them in the Defender catolog.
Doug.

[Threeweight]

Russ, I don't think bilge pumps do come with a check valve.  The other problem with the "Y" solution is that your maximum flow rate is limited by the amount the single hose can take.  If it takes  3/4" hose to route 650 gallons per hour of flow, connecting two 650 gph pumps to the same 3/4" hose via a Y isn't going to work well (you'd get the redundancy, but not the maximum pumping rate.)

I have also had issues with boats where wasps built nests in the through hull fittings and plugged up the hose (my boat was like this when I got it).  I like having two outlets, just in case.

Re: the exit connection... I went through the motor well so I would not have to open another hole in the foam between the liner and the hull.  It is really very simple... drill the pilot, then use a hole saw in a drill motor (start in reverse to avoid cracking the gel coat) to cut the appropriate sized hole.  Then add one of these with 4200 to seal it up.



Another random thought... on the hose, when I did mine the guy at West Marine suggested that I avoid the soft white nylon hose and go with this stuff:



More $$, but the black stuff molded into it makes it crush and kink proof.

Johan, you can do this job without removing the tank, but having small hands help if you go through the access hole in the fish box.  I suspect your son could be bribed into helping with the job!

[StreamFixer]

I guess I didn't realize the purpose of the second bilge pump if discharge line would be the limiting factor.

I somehow assumed the second pump was to have automatic operation, not to supplement capacity.

My bilge pump is adequate to keep the boat dry during normal crappy weather and I don't more for more than overnight so auto pumping is not a serious consideration for me.  I sure as heck would not want to be in a situation where I would need more than the capacity of the existing discharge line to dry out the bilge.

StreamFixer

[Threeweight]

I wanted the second on mine both for the automatic pumping (in case I leave it moored over night in a rainstorm), and for the extra pumping volume.  If I hit a submerged dead head or piling, or take a big wave over the bow crossing the bar, 1300 gallons per hour sounds a lot better than 650!

Of course, the Tuna! skippers will tell you that a panicked crew member with a square, 5 gallon bucket can move 10,000 gallons an hour... did I mention I keep two square buckets on my boat?  :biggrin:

[Enniberg]

You guys are a great reservoir of knowledge!!

Special thanks to Steve (3WT) and Turkeyburger - it is no big secret that my mental capacity is rather limited - pictures help greatly!  :bowdown:

Larry, I have though about draining the fuel, like Liver says, it is very easy and I have done it several times on previous Arima's I've owned, but right now my vehicles have rather full tanks - I crossed the border yesterday and loaded up on "cheap" American gasolin - I know, cheap is relative, but believe you me, it costs a lot more up here in fishing paradise. There should be room again by the weekend - unless the weather turns out nice, then I might just go fishing.

Off course I could easily solve that problem by taking Ron and Woody up on their generous offer  :whistle:

I wished I had a second bilge pump last year on the final weekend of the season fishing out of Ucluelet - we were 13 miles offshore in really lousy weather - the lone bilge pump seized and the fuse blew. half way home there was so much water in the boat that the hatches on the fish box floated off. My wife and son are seasoned boaters, and I would have no problems dealing with the situations if they were with me, but I had a couple of seasick greenhorns with me, making the whole think rather dicy. We slowed down to reduce the spray and got home just fine - I actually liked the way the boat handled with the weight  :biggrin:

The bucket is great, but there has to be someone to "operate" it.

johan

[BigMac]

Johan,

Don't ever tell Kay that story.  I'm having enought trouble getting her to Ukee.

Certainly a second bilge pump is desirable, but in the meantime, or in addition, you should consider a manual pump just in case.  There is the plastic tubular kind for about 20 or so $$ that is readily available.  Whale also has a compact one,their smallest, that pumps a big volume for about $70.  I have this on the 22 as the straight tube pump wouldn't access far enough into the bilge.

An added benefit--the greenhorns can be put to work doing something constructive. 

(Dave) 

[Enniberg]

Dave, I promise not to tell Kay about that particular event  :biggrin: I do own one of those manual pumps, but just as with the bucket, I does require someone to operate it, and my crew had succumbed to seasickness.

johan

[Keel-er]

I installed a Rule auto pump and a Tsunami as a backup with a manual switch.  Actually, the auto has a switch in case I want to turn it on myself.  Kind of a belt and suspenders arrangement.  Both are installed through the hatch in the fishbox.  Graduated from the Woody Installation school of 5200 so they aren't going anywhere soon.  I wanted the back up cause you never know what water might come over the transom....or when you might forget to launch the boat without the plug installed.  Not that I would ever do such a thing... :biggrin:

[Enniberg]

Tank is out and I am finally getting down to installing another bilge pump.

The one thing I am still struggling with is the routing of the discharge from the new pump. I wanted to get a pump that can move some water, so I got a 1200 gph, but the required 1 1/8" hose is a pain to deal with. I drilled a hole in the aft floor, port side, opposite from where the factory pump is plumbed and wired on the stb side. Problem is there is just not enough space underneath, between the liner and the hull to run such a thick hose through.

What say the pro's?

johan

[StreamFixer]

A professional Engineer's solution:

You can run a 1" hose, however that will reduce the discharge about 1/3.

If there is room for a 1" hose through the tight area, try a "Y", run the 2 -1" hoses, "Y" back together once you are through the tight spot and go to discharge.  You could achieve nearly the same running 2 -3/4 inch hoses.  Any thing less than 3/4" will significantly reduce discharge flows.

StreamFixer