News:

Welcome to the largest gathering of ARIMA boat owners anywhere. We are a forum based gathering of Arima Boat enthusiasts that like to pleasure cruise, fish, camp, and hunt. While Arimas are centered in the PNW, we have members across the globe. It is 3/4's water after all. Lurk, join up, and post about your Arima upgrades, family trips, and of course, your fishing exploits. Just remember to add photos whenever possible.

Main Menu

Battery problems

Started by croaker stroker, June 02, 2019, 04:18:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

croaker stroker


I was checking out my batteries because last time out one of the batteries seemed weak. After years and years of experience in electrical engineering college, Naval training school in DC electronics and Gyro Compass repair, RV Service Manager, Robotic Manufacturing Machine troubleshooting and repair, I have come to learn one very important bit of knowledge which I will now pass on....



Wait for it....




Here it is !!




Wire is not suppose to stretch !   There !  You're welcome.   :jester:





1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker

#1
Shame on the ProMariner Marine Charger manufacturer for not using marine tinned wire.   :berry: :berry: :berry:

This charger is not that old. !

...

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Redhawk

That sucks but at least it is easy enough to put a new terminal on. Maybe you should have spliced in this just as an added precaution...
Sparhawk:
1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
1995 Mercury 60 2-stroke
1984 Evinrude 6 2-stroke

croaker stroker


Now I am questioning the other three lugs. (2 battery charger.) I think I will replace them too... Just for peace-of-mind.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

Redhawk

I would do the same but would also go over the entire wire to make sure it isn't corroded anywhere else. We don't have one (yet) so I don't know this myself but is it possible replace the leads with tinned wire? As long as the rest of it is working properly I don't see much of a downside other than you would void the warranty. Depending on how confident you are in your wiring abilities it could provide some piece of mind.
Sparhawk:
1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
1995 Mercury 60 2-stroke
1984 Evinrude 6 2-stroke

Markshoreline

As a recent victim of electrical corrosion I recommend checking all connections and making sure there is good contact and dielectric grease to prevent corrosion!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

ATGEP

A seldom used technique is doing a voltage drop test.  I did this on my buddys tin can and he was loosing 2.6 v under load to the helm station.  We solved all of that nonsense with the blue-sea component, gregs wire supply rebuild. After the rewire we cataloged about 20 different readings so he can do a quick check every year to know what the volt drop readings were when new and he can spot trouble early.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APLic9F7ZsA

croaker stroker

My charger detected the problem. (#2 battery is red)

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

First Cabin

Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 02, 2019, 04:20:26 PM
Shame on the ProMariner Marine Charger manufacturer for not using marine tinned wire.   :berry: :berry: :berry:

This charger is not that old. !

...

I had the exact same experience with a ProMariner Charger.  They must go to a very special supplier of extra crap wire. 
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

realtordarius

speaking of corrosion...and not that this totally relates but a few weeks ago I installed a new Lowrance Sonichub stereo/speakers.  Everything seemed to work fine for the first few days and then the sound started cutting in and out.  I looked everywhere, called Lowrance, spoke to a few electrician friends and could not figure out what was going on.  While on a camping trip recently we were at the dock and I decided to fiddle with the stereo again, this time pulling fuses.  Low and behold....the fuse powering the Sonichub......was slightly corroded.... :doh:.  Put a new one in and BAM.....everything's been working like a charm since.  Maybe this will help someone else chasing down the electrical gremlins...

SR 17 / 115 Etec in Vancouver, BC

croaker stroker


ATGEP..... Brilliant idea. Thanks for posting that. I had not thought of that.

I did a voltage drop test and found that the + wire from the "house" battery to the battery switch was 1.5 volts. Removed all the connections. Found corrosion on the terminal behind the battery switch. Also a little on the battery terminals as well. Scraped and cleaned everything and applied dielectric grease. Voltage drop is now less than .5 volts. Motor seems to turn over much better.

I also replaced the other three battery charger terminals.

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

ATGEP

Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 06, 2019, 04:42:20 PM

ATGEP..... Brilliant idea. Thanks for posting that. I had not thought of that.

I did a voltage drop test and found that the + wire from the "house" battery to the battery switch was 1.5 volts. Removed all the connections. Found corrosion on the terminal behind the battery switch. Also a little on the battery terminals as well. Scraped and cleaned everything and applied dielectric grease. Voltage drop is now less than .5 volts. Motor seems to turn over much better.

I also replaced the other three battery charger terminals.

Congrats! Thats a lot of drop on a short run. I have a load bank that pulls 20 amps that I hook up to see what happens under load. This is my go-to method for chasing down gremlins.

croaker stroker

Quote from: ATGEP on June 06, 2019, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 06, 2019, 04:42:20 PM

ATGEP..... Brilliant idea. Thanks for posting that. I had not thought of that.

I did a voltage drop test and found that the + wire from the "house" battery to the battery switch was 1.5 volts. Removed all the connections. Found corrosion on the terminal behind the battery switch. Also a little on the battery terminals as well. Scraped and cleaned everything and applied dielectric grease. Voltage drop is now less than .5 volts. Motor seems to turn over much better.

I also replaced the other three battery charger terminals.

Congrats! Thats a lot of drop on a short run. I have a load bank that pulls 20 amps that I hook up to see what happens under load. This is my go-to method for chasing down gremlins.

What kind of load bank do you have ?
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

DevMah

Quote from: ATGEP on June 06, 2019, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 06, 2019, 04:42:20 PM

ATGEP..... Brilliant idea. Thanks for posting that. I had not thought of that.

I did a voltage drop test and found that the + wire from the "house" battery to the battery switch was 1.5 volts. Removed all the connections. Found corrosion on the terminal behind the battery switch. Also a little on the battery terminals as well. Scraped and cleaned everything and applied dielectric grease. Voltage drop is now less than .5 volts. Motor seems to turn over much better.

I also replaced the other three battery charger terminals.

Congrats! Thats a lot of drop on a short run. I have a load bank that pulls 20 amps that I hook up to see what happens under load. This is my go-to method for chasing down gremlins.


There are two methods of voltage drop testing Static and dynamic. (as shown in the video)

Dynamic operating/full load (preferred method)

The best method is to have the circuit at its operating current otherwise you will get false results, just installing a 20 Amp load bank will not work for the larger circuits or main lines  like winches, pullers, engine, helm main run.
AGTEP- the 20 A load bank will work on smaller circuits but not on larger ones, If using a load bank then the correct load must be calculated and applied at the correct locations. 
FYI
0-.04v is acceptable
0.5v and above is not and requires repair.

Once again a simple inspection and cleaning of you cables and connections ( maintenance ) a minimum once a year ( twice preferred) will minimize these types of issues.

Dev


2015 21' Sea Ranger w 150 Yammy  (Tight lines) Sold
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

croaker stroker

I usually do clean the battery cable connections. However, I was surprised to see that only a small amount of corrosion could create such a voltage drop.

Now I am concerned about the contacts inside the battery switch. I replaced the Perko switch that was in the boat when I bought it. When I opened the switch, the contacts were badly corroded. I replaced that switch with a Blue Sea switch. The terminals on the back of the Blue Sea switch were slightly corroded, so I cleaned and applied dielectric grease.

Looking at the back side of the new switch, it looks like you could open it to clean the contacts inside.  Has anybody done that ?

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

DevMah

Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
I usually do clean the battery cable connections. However, I was surprised to see that only a small amount of corrosion could create such a voltage drop.

Now I am concerned about the contacts inside the battery switch. I replaced the Perko switch that was in the boat when I bought it. When I opened the switch, the contacts were badly corroded. I replaced that switch with a Blue Sea switch. The terminals on the back of the Blue Sea switch were slightly corroded, so I cleaned and applied dielectric grease.

Looking at the back side of the new switch, it looks like you could open it to clean the contacts inside.  Has anybody done that ?

Croaker just do a voltage drop test across the switch ( I would crank the engine  to create your load), no need to service the switch if there is minimal voltage drop.


Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger w 150 Yammy  (Tight lines) Sold
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

croaker stroker

Quote from: DevMah on June 07, 2019, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
I usually do clean the battery cable connections. However, I was surprised to see that only a small amount of corrosion could create such a voltage drop.

Now I am concerned about the contacts inside the battery switch. I replaced the Perko switch that was in the boat when I bought it. When I opened the switch, the contacts were badly corroded. I replaced that switch with a Blue Sea switch. The terminals on the back of the Blue Sea switch were slightly corroded, so I cleaned and applied dielectric grease.

Looking at the back side of the new switch, it looks like you could open it to clean the contacts inside.  Has anybody done that ?

Croaker just do a voltage drop test across the switch ( I would crank the engine  to create your load), no need to service the switch if there is minimal voltage drop.


Dev

Well, I guess I already did that because I checked between the start solenoid and the battery + post... The switch would be in that circuit so I should be OK.

I just remember how ugly the Perko switch was, yet it still worked. And I was wondering if the contacts were serviceable in the Blue Sea switch.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

DevMah

Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DevMah on June 07, 2019, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
I usually do clean the battery cable connections. However, I was surprised to see that only a small amount of corrosion could create such a voltage drop.

Now I am concerned about the contacts inside the battery switch. I replaced the Perko switch that was in the boat when I bought it. When I opened the switch, the contacts were badly corroded. I replaced that switch with a Blue Sea switch. The terminals on the back of the Blue Sea switch were slightly corroded, so I cleaned and applied dielectric grease.

Looking at the back side of the new switch, it looks like you could open it to clean the contacts inside.  Has anybody done that ?

Croaker just do a voltage drop test across the switch ( I would crank the engine  to create your load), no need to service the switch if there is minimal voltage drop.


Dev

Well, I guess I already did that because I checked between the start solenoid and the battery + post... The switch would be in that circuit so I should be OK.

I just remember how ugly the Perko switch was, yet it still worked. And I was wondering if the contacts were serviceable in the Blue Sea switch.

I'm sure that you could service them, we don't bother due to cost of labor to open clean, usually when it reachesthe shop for us to look at there no much left to salvage..


Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger w 150 Yammy  (Tight lines) Sold
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

croaker stroker

Quote from: DevMah on June 07, 2019, 10:45:11 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DevMah on June 07, 2019, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
I usually do clean the battery cable connections. However, I was surprised to see that only a small amount of corrosion could create such a voltage drop.

Now I am concerned about the contacts inside the battery switch. I replaced the Perko switch that was in the boat when I bought it. When I opened the switch, the contacts were badly corroded. I replaced that switch with a Blue Sea switch. The terminals on the back of the Blue Sea switch were slightly corroded, so I cleaned and applied dielectric grease.

Looking at the back side of the new switch, it looks like you could open it to clean the contacts inside.  Has anybody done that ?

Croaker just do a voltage drop test across the switch ( I would crank the engine  to create your load), no need to service the switch if there is minimal voltage drop.


Dev

Well, I guess I already did that because I checked between the start solenoid and the battery + post... The switch would be in that circuit so I should be OK.

I just remember how ugly the Perko switch was, yet it still worked. And I was wondering if the contacts were serviceable in the Blue Sea switch.

I'm sure that you could service them, we don't bother due to cost of labor to open clean, usually when it reachesthe shop for us to look at there no much left to salvage..


Dev

They claim to be waterproof.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

croaker stroker

#20
...

Wow. "As long as you own it" Warranty.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

DevMah

Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: DevMah on June 07, 2019, 10:45:11 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DevMah on June 07, 2019, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on June 07, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
I usually do clean the battery cable connections. However, I was surprised to see that only a small amount of corrosion could create such a voltage drop.

Now I am concerned about the contacts inside the battery switch. I replaced the Perko switch that was in the boat when I bought it. When I opened the switch, the contacts were badly corroded. I replaced that switch with a Blue Sea switch. The terminals on the back of the Blue Sea switch were slightly corroded, so I cleaned and applied dielectric grease.

Looking at the back side of the new switch, it looks like you could open it to clean the contacts inside.  Has anybody done that ?

Croaker just do a voltage drop test across the switch ( I would crank the engine  to create your load), no need to service the switch if there is minimal voltage drop.


Dev

Well, I guess I already did that because I checked between the start solenoid and the battery + post... The switch would be in that circuit so I should be OK.

I just remember how ugly the Perko switch was, yet it still worked. And I was wondering if the contacts were serviceable in the Blue Sea switch.

I'm sure that you could service them, we don't bother due to cost of labor to open clean, usually when it reachesthe shop for us to look at there no much left to salvage..


Dev

They claim to be waterproof.


They are as they have the igniting rating
2015 21' Sea Ranger w 150 Yammy  (Tight lines) Sold
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Fisherdv

CS, is your switch out in the open, exposed? I keep mine inside, under the bait wells. It maybe will get a tiny freshwater splash when I wash the deck from the two holes in the starboard panel, but that's about it.

I had a Perko on my last boat, completely exposed, and never had a problem in 15 years. It did look a little rusty though.
2018 Sea Chaser 16, Honda BFP60

croaker stroker


It is inside. Under the Starboard bait well. In the same compartment as the battery's corrosive fumes. 😂

Sorry Fisher. Couldn't resist. 😂
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
1985 - 15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"Ex Tridente Pax". 🇺🇸

davidsea

Quote from: realtordarius on June 05, 2019, 09:37:35 AM
speaking of corrosion...and not that this totally relates but a few weeks ago I installed a new Lowrance Sonichub stereo/speakers.  Everything seemed to work fine for the first few days and then the sound started cutting in and out.  I looked everywhere, called Lowrance, spoke to a few electrician friends and could not figure out what was going on.  While on a camping trip recently we were at the dock and I decided to fiddle with the stereo again, this time pulling fuses.  Low and behold....the fuse powering the Sonichub......was slightly corroded.... :doh:.  Put a new one in and BAM.....everything's been working like a charm since.  Maybe this will help someone else chasing down the electrical gremlins...


I have absolutely no faith in plastic in-line fuseholders with glass fuses that come standard with most "marine" electronics.  The only reason they still exist is to make the product $1 cheaper than doing it right.  Each of my accessories has a separate fuse in the fuse panel, which protects the wire run from the panel to the accessory, and makes troubleshooting easy. All the original fuseholders are no longer onboard. 
1996 SR19 Hdtp. - 2018 Honda  BF115D
2009 Duroboat 16 CC, Honda BF50  -  SOLD
and 19 other boats (I think, lost count)