Author Topic: Fix or replace  (Read 1578 times)

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Offline Chief of the Boat

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2018, 03:47:03 PM »
Is that a 2016 Yamaha F50?  Pretty much the same engine as the F70 with a different head.
I would go for it.   :twocents:
1994 Sea Explorer 1511 loves whitecaps 2010 Yamaha F-70 2012 Yamaha F-8 with a  Fixed SaltBoss Bracket Lowrance HDS-5 & 7 Gen 2 Standard Horizon Fixed VHF 2150 with AIS

Online Fisherdv

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2018, 04:27:53 PM »
 :yeahthat:
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Offline Omega3

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2018, 04:49:48 PM »
Being the gearhead I am,I would Deep Creep the cylinders and check the fuel pump.Then compresion test.A whole powerhead for one of only 2 pistons is not needed.It's a 2 stroke simple.Replace both pistons and rings.At 100 hours that thing is like new.A good mechanic should be able to tear that small motor down,hone the cylinders and put it back together in 10 hours.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline wedocq

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2018, 06:30:03 PM »
 :yeahthat: You would think! Right??
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:09:25 PM by StreamFixer »
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Threeweight

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2018, 12:13:18 AM »
If you do buy a heavier 4 stroke just make sure you budget for trim tabs, moving the battery, etc to compensate for the additional weight. Many threads on people having to do that to balance their boat with a 4 stroke instead of the lighter 2 stroke.

In brand new motors, an Etec 60 weighs 240 pounds, a Yamaha F60/F70 weighs 257# (the "high output" Etec 60 weights 320).  An Etec 90 is 320 pounds and a 4 stroke Suzuki 90 is 341, Honda 90 359... the weight advantages of two strokes are not that big these days.

The reason to move weight forward is that Arima's carry their fuel, batteries, main motor and kicker all on the stern.  Not so much a heavy motor issue as a design issue (though heavy motors certainly don't help).
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 12:22:32 AM by Threeweight »
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2018, 05:53:42 AM »
   Are we talking about powering a Sea Hunter?   If so, the Honda 60 is the "lightest" of all.............239 lbs.! :wink:   Keep in mind, that boat is rated for 80 HP max.   BTW, unlike the 2 cylinder 240 lb. Etec..........the Honda is 3 cylinders.  The "high output" Etec 60 HP 3 cylinder is...................What?.........320 lbs.?  This is a no-brainer.

Yat
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:13:45 PM by Yachter Yat »
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom. Next, stretch the Explorer by 9 and steal 2 or 3 from the cabin.  Please hurry, I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2018, 02:58:49 PM »
Today's update The mechanic used a scope to look inside the cylinder and can see melted aluminum. We have now talked about tearing down the motor to inspect the damage and he said that might be about $500 labour? at that point if it is reparable maybe another $ 1500 so about all I should spend on it. I wonder if there might be any market for a Mechanic's special or parts motor. If it needs a power head it is not worth it as the motor value is about 3000 the same as the part. I went to see the Yamaha dealer however he is closed on Monday so I will tomorrow. I am open to any more advise but I am leaning toward a camp return or new Yamaha 50
1988 Sea Hunter 60 Suzuki 5hp Mariner
1958 9 ft moulded birch 1958 3 hp Johnston and a 30 pound electric

Online Fisherdv

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2018, 03:09:05 PM »
Gee’s, that’s $2K right off the bat and you know it will probably go above that all said and done. I’d probably lean twords your other options if you can  :twocents:
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2018, 10:02:12 PM »

Ugh. I was hoping for a simple fix.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Salmon King

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Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2018, 08:45:43 AM »
Today's update The mechanic used a scope to look inside the cylinder and can see melted aluminum. We have now talked about tearing down the motor to inspect the damage and he said that might be about $500 labour? at that point if it is reparable maybe another $ 1500 so about all I should spend on it. I wonder if there might be any market for a Mechanic's special or parts motor. If it needs a power head it is not worth it as the motor value is about 3000 the same as the part. I went to see the Yamaha dealer however he is closed on Monday so I will tomorrow. I am open to any more advise but I am leaning toward a camp return or new Yamaha 50

Yours is the first eTec I’ve ever heard of self destructing!
Sounds like it’s time for a repower :facepalm:
At those estimates and whatever other things that will inevitably pop up IMHO it’s not worth the effort.
I’d ask the mechanic about him buying it for parts or part it out on CL or eBay.
The lower unit alone, if it’s in like new condition, would be $750-$800.

 :twocents:
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
2011 14’ Sterling
9’ Pontoon (Bismarck)
8’ Pontoon (Hood)

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2018, 10:20:14 AM »

The Computer (EMM?) are $500.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline GregE

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2018, 10:21:36 AM »
Gotta ask...  what's a camp return?     rental fleet ?  :shrug9:
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline diodon

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2018, 10:25:55 AM »
Trash or trouser its all how you might look at it. :wink:
2007 21 Sea Explorer.   2007 Suzuki DF140.        2011 Honda 9.9

Offline Threeweight

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2018, 11:21:30 AM »
In areas where fishing lodges are common (with guides in-house, or boats you can rent) they often lease their outboard motors for a few years, then return them and swap out for a brand new engine. 

Those lease returns then get re-sold by the dealers as "camp returns".
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2018, 04:08:51 PM »
   As I posted on another thread, I think the Honda 60 would be perfect on that boat.  No...I don't sell these things.  I've simply had such good luck with these Honda's in the past, that I feel compelled to pass it on.  You did seem to be concerned about dependability, correct?  If that's the case, I don't think you could do any better. 

Yat
[/quote
Should be a fun day the one that doesn't fish is playing Mah Jongg so I am going shopping Yat, in Canada the 60 Honda is 8,800 boat show price and the Yamaha 60 is 10,149 before any discount, We have a dealer here that sells both and I have a High School buddy who is a salesman there who should be pretty knowledgeable having been a guide for a long time so I should get a good comparison. The guides here mostly run Yamaha and my son has a few of them (Too Many toys!!). --- I forgot to click on post so fast forward to this afternoon I found two different Yamaha 50's one got dunked in the salt chuck when brand new and has had everthing replaced that the salt would effect at a cost of 1700 it is 5500 and comes with controls but no prop with a warranty until Feb 2020 the other is a Camp return with 200 hrs no controls or prop for 5600 and warranty until March 2019. I am inclined toward the one that got dunked as I had a dunked in salt motor that had no issues and if anything was to go wrong its under warranty and the dealer is going to cover anything related to salt damage.
1988 Sea Hunter 60 Suzuki 5hp Mariner
1958 9 ft moulded birch 1958 3 hp Johnston and a 30 pound electric

Offline Chief of the Boat

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2018, 04:32:12 PM »
IMO I would stay away from any engine that was submerged.  Who is the warranty with?  I think being submerged is in the fine print that voids the warranty. 
 :twocents:
1994 Sea Explorer 1511 loves whitecaps 2010 Yamaha F-70 2012 Yamaha F-8 with a  Fixed SaltBoss Bracket Lowrance HDS-5 & 7 Gen 2 Standard Horizon Fixed VHF 2150 with AIS

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2018, 09:17:32 PM »
    Chief makes some good points.  Whatever you do, make sure you get a warrantee in writing.  What you want to avoid is getting into a "he said" argument down the road.  Remember the old saying:   "Even the most faded document is better than the most vivid memory". 

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom. Next, stretch the Explorer by 9 and steal 2 or 3 from the cabin.  Please hurry, I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Threeweight

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2018, 10:21:13 AM »
Read the fine print on that warranty... does it cover computer/electrical?  Was the ECM, entire electrical system, all wiring, and all fuel system components (right down to the fuel injectors) replaced?  That's $2000-3000 worth of components, at dealer cost.

If not, run, don't walk, away from a modern engine that was submerged in the salt.

One observation on your Etec... 2 strokes historically relied on fuel for lubrication, and with older designs this was their achilies heel for longevity.  Fueling problems (gummed up carb running too lean, etc...) could cause catastrophic failure as the engine would then run with no lube until things went boom.

The Etec design is a big improvement, as it eliminates the mixing of fuel/oil/air prior to hitting the combustion chamber, and instead injects the oil directly into the chamber through a system that is separate from the fuel injection.  I'd be curious if there was a failure of some kind in the oil injection system on your cooked cylinder, causing it to run with no lubrication.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline ATGEP

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2018, 11:15:02 AM »
IMHO there are too many ways for water to create problems on the newer motors to ever want one dunked.  Not to mention the whole hydro lock issue that can leave components stressed but not failed.  I want 1 thing from a boat ENG...100% reliability.

Offline Omega3

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2018, 11:50:10 AM »
100 % reliable engine of any kind does not exsist.The web is full of pages of guys having problems with engines of all brands and models.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2018, 01:14:35 PM »
   Aaaah........excuse me, Omega.   Oh........never mind.

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom. Next, stretch the Explorer by 9 and steal 2 or 3 from the cabin.  Please hurry, I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2018, 09:52:44 PM »
IMHO there are too many ways for water to create problems on the newer motors to ever want one dunked.  Not to mention the whole hydro lock issue that can leave components stressed but not failed.  I want 1 thing from a boat ENG...100% reliability.

+1

Newer motors are computerized. (Think of dunking your iPhone)
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2018, 06:15:21 AM »
IMHO there are too many ways for water to create problems on the newer motors to ever want one dunked.  Not to mention the whole hydro lock issue that can leave components stressed but not failed.  I want 1 thing from a boat ENG...100% reliability.

+1

Newer motors are computerized. (Think of dunking your iPhone)

Thanks guys I won’t be buying the dunked motor. Yesterday I found a backyard actually looks like a scrap yard who sounded extremely knowledgeable he had the power head off in under three hours and has quoted 800 to finish fixing it and I pay for the parts he has found on the web kits to repair the injector and says the cylinder is washed? So he is going to have it bored and put a very slightly bigger piston? All Greek to me but worth the gamble
1988 Sea Hunter 60 Suzuki 5hp Mariner
1958 9 ft moulded birch 1958 3 hp Johnston and a 30 pound electric

Offline Threeweight

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2018, 03:16:12 PM »
I think he means the piston ran without lubrication, which probably resulted in both a melted piston and a scored cylinder wall.  He's going to replace the injector(s) for that cylinder, bore out the cylinder slightly oversize, then rebuild using a larger piston.  Hopefully the crankshaft and bearings are still good.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Fix or replace
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2018, 04:32:39 PM »


I am curious what caused that. Lean burn caused by bad injector?  Previous owner ran the oil dry ? Overheat ?

The printout should tell the story ??
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."