Author Topic: Ablative Bottom Paint  (Read 501 times)

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Offline JamesB

Ablative Bottom Paint
« on: January 20, 2018, 06:20:51 PM »
If I am planning on buying an Arima and plan to have it on a trailer, if there were 2 boats in similar condition for hull and engine, all else being equal, how much weighting would you give the boat without bottom paint vs the other boat with bottom paint?  My concern with having a boat with bottom paint is that I will have to re-apply every few years since it wears away and the other concern is that with a bottom painted boat, it most likely means the owner(s) have had it sitting in salt water.   My concern with a boat sitting in salt water is that you are not able to thoroughly flush your engine with fresh water after each use.   I have never had a boat in a marina or sitting in a slip.   Do most owners have the ability to flush the engines with fresh water after each use and if so, do most people actually do the freshwater/saltaway flushing or do they just trim up the motor and let it be?  My concern is the salt eating away at the interior components.  Perhaps someone who has a boat in a marina or slip can educate me here as I dont' know what happens to boats in a slip/marina after each use.

Offline Omega3

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 07:29:22 PM »
Can't think of anything where the phrase,"rode hard and put away wet" would apply more than a boat kept in salt water.I would buy the non painted boat with all other things being equal.My boat has been kept undercover and loved from day one.I would look for the same thing.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline Sparhawk

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 03:48:52 AM »
If I am planning on buying an Arima and plan to have it on a trailer, if there were 2 boats in similar condition for hull and engine, all else being equal, how much weighting would you give the boat without bottom paint vs the other boat with bottom paint?  My concern with having a boat with bottom paint is that I will have to re-apply every few years since it wears away and the other concern is that with a bottom painted boat, it most likely means the owner(s) have had it sitting in salt water.   My concern with a boat sitting in salt water is that you are not able to thoroughly flush your engine with fresh water after each use.   I have never had a boat in a marina or sitting in a slip.   Do most owners have the ability to flush the engines with fresh water after each use and if so, do most people actually do the freshwater/saltaway flushing or do they just trim up the motor and let it be?  My concern is the salt eating away at the interior components.  Perhaps someone who has a boat in a marina or slip can educate me here as I dont' know what happens to boats in a slip/marina after each use.
My boat Sparhawk (Tiderunner 150 cuddy) is pretty dang similar to an Arima, she is pretty much the grandfather of the Arima and she has bottompaint and I love it. When I repaint her, which I do usually once every 4-5 years, I will be using Seahawk Sharkskin. Sharkskin is also a hybrid paint, which I believe most are epoxy based. The paint will add a bit of weight but make sure to sand off the old layer(s) when repainting. The epoxy based paint part comes into play since it is not a hard paint, the boat it is on can be trailered repeatedly and be left out without damaging the effectiveness of the paint (according to my research). As for the engine, I usually just tilt it up, but I usually only have her in the water for a week or two. If I were you, consider that you will have to repaint the hull every 3-5 years (Depending on use) and let that be a factor of whether or not you want to do the work. I would also either pull the engine apart and check all the lines as well as clean them, if you are a grease monkey like my son (Redhawk). You could also take it to a mechanic or friend who knows boat motors and have them take a look at it. I would also run some Salt-away or another salt remover through it just to be sure everything was cleaned well.
"God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind I will never die" - Calvin and Hobbes

Sparrowhawk:
1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
70 Horsepower Evinrude

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 06:02:45 AM »
   Hi James:  If your going to trailer your boat, I'd forgo the bottom paint.  People never seem to mention it, but I believe it not only creates another maintenance problem, but may also have some slight effect on fuel consumption and overall performance as well.  This may be especially true on boats equipped with minimum (or marginal) horsepower.  I'm sure others may disagree......it's what makes the world go round.  (ha)  Have fun.

Yat
Dear Arima:  Stretch the Hunter platform by 5. Next, stretch the Explorer by 9 and steal 2 or 3 from the cabin.  Please hurry, I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Diablo

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 09:25:28 AM »
My first Arima had bottom paint because the previous owner left in a marina a couple weeks a year. I don’t think it made any difference in the value of the boat. Because of the additional maintenance and I don’t leave my boat in the water for long periods I would prefer no bottom paint. But that wouldn’t kill a sale of an otherwise nice boat.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline BruceL2_Fish

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 11:31:00 AM »
I have had my boat in the water for up to two weeks at a time and yes it does take extra cleaning after but, not to the point of needing bottom paint.   
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline La-Z-Buoy

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 12:14:53 PM »
I had a Seaswirl boat with red ablative bottom paint. Always trailer'd the boat. I didn't like it...... Regardless if it was wet or dry, it would come off on you. When working on the boat/motor etc. it was almost impossible to not end up with it on you or your clothes. Just sayin.......... If you don't intend to keep the boat in the water for long periods I'd go for the non painted boat......  :twocents:    BUT, if you got a screaming deal on the painted boat    :shrug9:   .
Richard

1991 19' Sea Ranger HT
DF 140 Suzuki, Honda 8

Offline Sparhawk

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 02:53:44 PM »
Here is a image of my boat with the bottom paint. I can’t speak for anyone else but I know that if I was a new boater I would not want the hassle of painting the hull every few years.
"God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind I will never die" - Calvin and Hobbes

Sparrowhawk:
1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
70 Horsepower Evinrude

Offline Peddler

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2018, 03:27:27 PM »
There are hard ablative paints that are made for trailer boat use. They can be washed, scrubbed, pressure washed, don’t smudge, and stand-up to wet/dry cycles.

My boat had old/worn bottom paint when I bought it. I’ve left it until a couple weeks ago. I just had a guy on Bainbridge Island blast it back to gel coat, primer, and top coat with a hard, ablative.

When I’m back to my computer, I’ll post some pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wishin' I was Fishin'

Offline Chief of the Boat

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2018, 04:12:11 PM »
Peddler,
Agate Pass Marine?
1994 Sea Explorer 1511 loves whitecaps 2010 Yamaha F-70 2012 Yamaha F-8 with a  Fixed SaltBoss Bracket Lowrance HDS-5 & 7 Gen 2 Standard Horizon Fixed VHF 2150 with AIS

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 09:46:44 PM »
There are hard ablative paints that are made for trailer boat use. They can be washed, scrubbed, pressure washed, don’t smudge, and stand-up to wet/dry cycles.

My boat had old/worn bottom paint when I bought it. I’ve left it until a couple weeks ago. I just had a guy on Bainbridge Island blast it back to gel coat, primer, and top coat with a hard, ablative.

When I’m back to my computer, I’ll post some pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd love to see the results as I've had the same mindset.  My boat is paint an almost turquoise color and the paint will smudge or run off when you take it on/off the trailer and when you wash/scrub the boat.  I'd love to have it painted a different color that doesn't rub/wear off as easily.
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline JamesB

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2018, 12:54:51 AM »
thank you for the responses.  I wasn't aware that the bottom paint rubs off that easily even if you were simply rinsing your boat off after each use.  I never thought of the rubbing against the trailer bunks which would cause issues.  Like I said, I've never had a boat with bottom paint and don't know the pros and cons.  I Just know that I don't need it since it won't be sitting in the water since I will be trailering it.  If I do find a boat that has what I want but it has bottom paint, is it possible to get all the bottom paint blasted or sanded off and to have the original gel coat painted back on?  I understand it may not match due to the fading of the original gelcoat that is above the waterline but I am not sure I want the hassles of dealing/maintaining a bottom paint if my boat will be trailered.   Is there any other options out there that will put a permanent coating such as gelcoat or a hard nonablative paint that is shiny and has a protective film?

Offline Peddler

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 09:38:18 PM »
Peddler,
Agate Pass Marine?

Yep, Bob is awesome. Phenomenal communication, thorough, and clean job!  Sent these pictures throughout the process. (More in my gallery.)

Like I said earlier, my old bottom paint was in rough shape.  I don't know when it was done last, but since I do not moor the boat I wasn't worried about it.  The time had come to address it though.  It was the last of the "Ugly" that needed fixing.

Before:




After Media Blast to remove old paint;




Primer/Sealer:


After - In a blue color to match some of my graphics: (He can do ANY color you want, including white, or "hull color.")




This is the product he applied, sorry it's sideways.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 09:44:14 PM by Peddler »
Wishin' I was Fishin'

Offline Peddler

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 09:42:46 PM »
thank you for the responses.  I wasn't aware that the bottom paint rubs off that easily even if you were simply rinsing your boat off after each use.  I never thought of the rubbing against the trailer bunks which would cause issues.  Like I said, I've never had a boat with bottom paint and don't know the pros and cons.  I Just know that I don't need it since it won't be sitting in the water since I will be trailering it.  If I do find a boat that has what I want but it has bottom paint, is it possible to get all the bottom paint blasted or sanded off and to have the original gel coat painted back on?  I understand it may not match due to the fading of the original gelcoat that is above the waterline but I am not sure I want the hassles of dealing/maintaining a bottom paint if my boat will be trailered.   Is there any other options out there that will put a permanent coating such as gelcoat or a hard nonablative paint that is shiny and has a protective film?

Not ALL bottom paint rubs off easily.  There are many types.  Some types that are not meant to dry out, some that can.  Some that are hard, some soft.  Most are ablative whether hard or soft. 

Going back to a gel coat surface would be tough, depending on how it was prepped originally.  If it was done correctly, you'd basically have to have new gel coat applied.  You'd probably be just as well off to have it re-painted with a shade of white bottom paint that matched the hull color.  These days bottom paint can be color mixed to match just-about any color.  I nearly went to a hull color on mine. 
Wishin' I was Fishin'

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 09:55:10 PM »
Wow those pictures after it was painted look fantastic.  Definitely night and day from before.  Might I ask how much he charges?  If you're not comfortable sharing, please PM me.  I'd love to do this to my boat.
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline Peddler

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 10:01:21 PM »
Wow those pictures after it was painted look fantastic.  Definitely night and day from before.  Might I ask how much he charges?  If you're not comfortable sharing, please PM me.  I'd love to do this to my boat.

The price for this job was $70/ft.  Your price may vary depending on the condition of your existing paint (if any) and what final product you and he decide is best for your intended use.

www.facebook.com/bottompainting
Wishin' I was Fishin'

Offline Fisherdv

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2018, 10:03:13 PM »
Peddler, your boat looks great! :bowdown:
2018, 16 ft Arima Sea Chaser, Honda 60HP

Offline Peddler

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 06:59:27 AM »
Peddler, your boat looks great! :bowdown:

Thanks!  I was fortunate to be able to put her together when I did, 5 years-ago. I couldn’t do it today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wishin' I was Fishin'

Offline JamesB

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 06:21:53 PM »
Is it possible to apply a non-ablative glossy epoxy bottom paint as a sealer after the bottom has been blasted?   You mentioned your paint is still an ablative paint.   If I don't plan on storing in the water for more than a few days at a time what options do I have?  Looks like going back to gelcoat will be time consuming and cost prohibitive. 

Offline OnA

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2018, 01:02:12 PM »
Like I said, I've never had a boat with bottom paint and don't know the pros and cons.  I Just know that I don't need it since it won't be sitting in the water since I will be trailering it.  If I do find a boat that has what I want but it has bottom paint, is it possible to get all the bottom paint blasted or sanded off and to have the original gel coat painted back on?

Just because someone has applied anti-fouling paint doesn't mean you have to maintain it.  If you aren't going keep it in the water, then you don't need to worry about it.  I suppose that depending on the condition, it could affect performance ever so slightly.  Also, just because a boat is moored in saltwater for an extended period of time, doesn't necessarily mean it has been abused.  Don't let these folks scare you off just because it has a little bottom paint.  The main issue is the engine and how well it has been maintained.
There are lots to learn about anti-fouling paint, so do your homework for sure, and knowing what type of paint is on the hull right now is a must.

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 01:23:44 PM »
My buddy owns an older 22ft Boston Whaler and he keeps it at anchor for 3 months a year in salt water and he does not recommend bottom paint. He just does a good power wash at the end of the year. He never flushes either except at the end of the season.

If it was year around I  would be concerned and paint the bottom.

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 02:23:28 PM »
I'm kind of on the fence about the bottom paint as I have a family beach cabin on south Whidbey Island where the boat is on the buoy during the summer time.  The current bottom paint on the boat is ok but will probably need to be repainted in a few seasons.  I guess the parents old 17' SC that we had didn't have any bottom paint on it and we had it for 5-10 years out on the buoy during the summer time and like Wheelhouse said, we would just pressure wash it and clean it every so often when barnacles and junk would stick to the sides.  I'm undecided on the matter, on the one hand it looks great and I'm sure it would keep some of the junk off but on the other, I think I'd rather spend almost $2k on something more beneficial as I've heard bottom painting a boat is really quite an undertaking to do on your own.
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline GHMariner

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 06:11:05 AM »
I just repainted the hull on my Sea Chaser. It lives in the saltwater most of the year. I just tilt the engine up and don't usually flush it (no source of fresh water on the buoy). I do flush it whenever I pull it out of the water.

Assuming you have proper anodes, the salt won't "eat away" at the engine, inside or out. It can accumulate in the coolant passages if you don't occasionally flush it. I've been doing this with boats of varying design and configuration for over 30 years, and I can tell you, the engine is far more likely to die from some other cause than salt accumulation. As for the rest of the boat, Arimas are designed for the saltwater environment, so there shouldn't be any issues.

Personally, I'd rather have a boat that I know has been properly maintained for the saltwater environment with bottom paint, stainless hardware, and tinned wire than one that has been a freshwater garage queen its entire life. As soon as you expose those boats to the saltwater, the zinc hardware and common copper wire starts falling apart.

Also, the prep work necessary for the first application of bottom paint is expensive. I'd rather have a boat that has that already done.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 08:28:23 AM by GHMariner »

Offline GHMariner

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 08:19:51 AM »
Here is a image of my boat with the bottom paint. I can’t speak for anyone else but I know that if I was a new boater I would not want the hassle of painting the hull every few years.


You only have to paint it if you need the antifouling properties, and painting is a lot easier than scraping off barnacles.

Offline GHMariner

Re: Ablative Bottom Paint
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 08:43:45 AM »
I'm kind of on the fence about the bottom paint as I have a family beach cabin on south Whidbey Island where the boat is on the buoy during the summer time.  The current bottom paint on the boat is ok but will probably need to be repainted in a few seasons.  I guess the parents old 17' SC that we had didn't have any bottom paint on it and we had it for 5-10 years out on the buoy during the summer time and like Wheelhouse said, we would just pressure wash it and clean it every so often when barnacles and junk would stick to the sides.  I'm undecided on the matter, on the one hand it looks great and I'm sure it would keep some of the junk off but on the other, I think I'd rather spend almost $2k on something more beneficial as I've heard bottom painting a boat is really quite an undertaking to do on your own.

It depends on if you want it done "right" or "good enough".  The hardest part is getting the boat off the trailer (you can paint it on the trailer if you want, but it's harder). There are several ways to accomplish that, and it depends on the size of your boat and the type of trailer, but once you've got that out of the way, it can be a pretty quick job. If you're willing to skip the prep and barrier coat (not strictly necessary for a well aged fiberglass hull), it's really as simple as a good pressure washing, followed by a day to dry out, then some masking and an hour of painting with a roller. I've gotten to where I can do the entire process in under two hours (plus drying time) and a single coat remains effective for 2 years. I use Pettit Hydrocoat because it is safe to use in my garage without a respirator and cleans up with soap and water.

Now, a newer hull that still has mold release agent will require prep, and a barrier coat will help prevent blisters and extend the life of your paint, but blisters aren't traditionally a problem on trailer boats, because they spend enough time out of the water to avoid the osmosis problem.