Author Topic: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan  (Read 2468 times)

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Offline BayWolf

For over a year now, we have been fighting for greater transparency in the fisheries management in Washington State.  We are in a unique position here, since we have a federal mandate to Co-manage our fish with the Treaty Tribes.  Our state Department of Fish and Wildlife has been conducting negotiations (Called the North of Falcon) in which they agree on harvest sharing, seasons, limits, policy and laws that govern our fishing in Washington waters.  Since 2013, when public observers were thrown out of the negotiations by the tribal representatives, we (non-tribal citizens) have been prohibited from any knowledge of what is taking place in these negotiations.  We find out about the results when the agreement is submitted for approval.  We don't believe this is Co-mamangement since the public has been excluded from having a voice in the process.  The department blames the tribes, saying they are calling the shots, and since they are "sovereign" there is nothing that can be done to force these meetings to be open.  All we have been asking for is a live video feed be allowed of the negotiations, but to date, the tribes have said no. So we continue to be left sitting on the curb.

Now, we have a TEN YEAR PLAN, that will impact our fishing for the next TEN YEARS! A plan that was entirely crafted and agreed to completely WITHOUT any public input. In fact, our DFW Commission which holds supervision over the Department was not even consulted!

So we ask, how can this be fair and equitable Co-management when one side of the "Co" has been prohibited from even participating?  :shrug9:



"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline BayWolf

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 12:23:56 PM »
On Dec 21st, the Twin Harbors FISH & WILDLIFE Advocacy with us (Washington Citizen Sportsmen) came together and filed a legal petition requesting the Commission provide stricter instructions to the Dept. by converting the NOF Policy from an advisory policy to a rule. By state law, the Commission has 60 days to either move forward or provide written reasons for not doing so.

We believe this action might provide the catalyst needed to get the Commission to move off of their position of voicing support for greater transparency while doing very little toward that end.

If we can motivate the Commission to move forward on this, it will allow for public input, wherein we can address the open meetings.
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 05:43:31 PM »
I really hope that what you stated in your last post happens as I'm sick and tired of having limited fishing seasons in limited areas because the tribes are overfishing with their nets and it's only really affecting us sports-fishermen.  Please keep us informed!
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline Hunter

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 06:21:47 PM »
I personally think that a very real and related problem in all of this is that the tribes have massive amounts of casino dollars to support the legal teams that have the "juice" to support all tribal agendas, including those related to fisheries.   There is nothing traditional, ancestral or ritual about casinos.  I think WA state should remove all restrictions and fully allow unlimited non-tribal casinos to create open and fair competition and then also establish a tax on said non-tribal casino profits that is dedicated to providing legal support to represent non-tribal sport fishermen and all of the industries that are supported by sport fishing. 

The real answer is to eliminate all mass kill methods of commercial fishing.       
2001 Sea Legend 22 (Gone But Not Forgotten)
2017 Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220 ET-HT - Honda BF250 & Honda 9.9 Power Thrust
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Offline Zarn

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 09:08:39 PM »
Compounding that secret agenda is the large turn over of hatchery operations to our NAB's (native american brothers). On many rivers of NAB hatchery management in ten years the vast majority or the only returning salmonids will have extra fins. Some extra non-food for thought.... It's already happening....

Our current tact is to live in the SOW w/o any substantial contribution to most state tax base or pay for play recreational opportunities. Then... take our annual 5 figure sports budget elsewhere where we will actually receive a reasonable ROI for our spend. So far, so good. We also completed divestiture of business and residences in oregon in qtr. 3, 2016 (a 5 year plan completed in 2.5 years). We did the same thing this year with most of our holdings in the SOW (state of washington). Feels Good...! Free at last... Free at last... freedom of choice from excessive, liberal regulation and another group's short sighted, overbearing greed. I agree that ALL forms of mass fish destruction (gill and other netting) needs to end. Same same for everyone... hook and line... period

BTW... We never have and never will support tribal casino's. I would urge you to do the same.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 09:13:30 PM by Zarn »
SOLD... 87'SR, Blue Stripe/Top & ETEC 90, Honda 8, Arima owner... 11 years. Gonna miss her but I'll still be around here.

Remember....when attacked by a clown posse always go for the juggler first.

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 06:59:12 AM »
   The commercial fishing industry is what killed the sport in New England.  I assume the same is probably true in the Northwest as well. Let's face it, you can only drag the bottom so long before there's nothing left.  Current regulations limit only one Cod per person in our waters.  Funny, and yet sad, that this could be the reason my Arima is so clean, and my new Shimano Calcutta has pretty much turned into "wall art". 

   Interesting that what I find amusing about regulations is the way many conservatives have tried to eliminate them; claiming (in some way) they hinder business and growth. I could never quite come to understand that mentality. I mean, how is it that an industry can be allowed to run reckless to the point that it puts itself out of business?  Meanwhile, most of the liberals I know have always been in favor of reasonable restrictions.  I can't speak for the people of the Northwest, but here in the East, the so-called liberals I know have never been in favor of the long-standing free rein commercial fishermen enjoyed for years.   When the conservatives complain to me about the restrictive regulations on sport fishing these days, I simply tell them this:  The reason there's so many regulations today is because there were too few regulations years ago.  Sometimes I think we have our conservatives mixed-up with our liberals.  On the facetious side, can't you just hear Forest Gump saying that?  :biggrin:

Yat
   
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline BayWolf

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 10:55:57 PM »
There has been a lot of chatter that we may soon be looking for new Director for WDFW.  It’s becoming clear the scandals and failures of leadership have caught up to him!
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline Flying Arima

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 04:59:31 AM »
There has been a lot of chatter that we may soon be looking for new Director for WDFW.  It’s becoming clear the scandals and failures of leadership have caught up to him!

Good because that worthless pile of &&@“ never responds to my emails! The few times I was responded to was from a biologist who danced around the question never answering it. Wdfw needs new leadership and a good house cleaning. Hire people with core values and morals.
James


2015 19ft sea chaser / REEL TYME
2015 yamaha 115

Offline HemiGTX

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 06:12:25 AM »
When you fire a round from an autoloading rifle, all you do is chamber another round.
AKA: "The guy who fishes with Nicole"

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 10:59:14 AM »
When you fire a round from an autoloading rifle, all you do is chamber another round.

 :jester:  so true.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2018, 11:51:00 AM »
   WHOA......Croaker......wait just a minute.  Are you agreeing with Hemi when he says firing a Chinook from an automatic rifle, that another Chinook is automatically chambered from the 10 Year Management Plan?   

   Okay, then........why didn't you just say so.  :hoboy:

   .......and I'm the one snowed-in?   :jester:

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 11:55:14 AM »

Yat....back away from the fireplace. The fumes are getting to you !!
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Fisherdv

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 12:15:45 PM »

Yat....back away from the fireplace. The fumes are getting to you !!
Or maybe it’s the -20 degree cold
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2018, 12:30:17 PM »
    I just don't know how we go from a 10 Year Chinook plan to an automatic rifle.  Sooo...........you guys had some earthquakes out there?   Hmmm...........:jester:

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Fisherdv

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 12:38:40 PM »
When you fire a round from an autoloading rifle, all you do is chamber another round.
Yat, I think he’s talking about the wdfw leadership, one idiot out, another idiot in :shrug9:
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Offline ATGEP

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 12:54:26 PM »
What is the fine for catching a fish not in season? Not talking about 100, but perhaps one that you might catch while bouncing the bottom for sand dabs. Since none of the rules are being followed that make the rules, how legitimate are the plans crafted in secret?

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 03:57:28 PM »
I've heard from a buddy of mine, who can be a little bit on the overly dramatic side at times, that this would close down all fishing in the Puget Sound for 10 years, including the tribes netting, but with the one teeny tiny exception that they would be able to fish for "ceremonial purposes"?  If that is true, it basically sounds like they'd still be able to fish and net whenever they want to.  I'm kind of wondering about the same thing that ATGEP just seemed to hint at in terms of catching a fish out of season.  If this plan passes, when is enough going to be enough and why should only some of us (sports-fishermen) have to follow the rules when the few who net the most fish (natives) the rules simply don't apply to?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 04:04:16 PM by mustang65fbk »
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline ATGEP

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 08:00:45 PM »
Nothing pains me more than tossing back a fish that is mortally wounded. This past year I tossed back a 12lb nook that was hooked through the eye and was bleeding like crazy. I also had a huge rockfish pop back up dead as can be 15 mins after descending it in area 6.  In both cases my morals overruled and the laws were followed.  I will consider other options in the future as the laws being imposed upon us lack a certain legal basis on which they are enacted. 

Offline Omega3

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2018, 08:49:12 PM »
Just remember that the chinook with a fin in Puget Sound is a Federally recognized endangered speicies.Which as I understand it a Federal crime to retain.The only fish I know of that are worth thousands of dollars are derby winners.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline BayWolf

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 04:22:44 PM »
Although we do not advocate violating the law, we do want to point out that there is NO LAW stating the North of Falcon Tribal Meetings can be closed to the public per say.  We may be asking for concerned citizens to attend the meeting with us and demand entrance. We WILL probably get arrested tho for trespass or creating a public nuisance.  But you’ll get to be on TV!   Know any good lawyers?
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline Markshoreline

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 01:44:35 PM »
Everyone excuse Yat, he gets like this each year after being snowed in for a month.  He returns to normal after the thaw.  :jester:

The tribes have been pounding the crabs since before we started in July and they are continuing to do so today.  When is that going to stop?

2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 02:20:51 PM »

Just remember that the chinook with a fin in Puget Sound is a Federally recognized endangered speicies.

fingernail clippers ?
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Omega3

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 08:03:45 AM »

Just remember that the chinook with a fin in Puget Sound is a Federally recognized endangered speicies.

fingernail clippers ?
They look for the healed scar.Cutting the fin off will bring big trouble if checked by a warden.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline Chasin Baitman

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 08:32:50 AM »
What is the fine for catching a fish not in season? Not talking about 100, but perhaps one that you might catch while bouncing the bottom for sand dabs. Since none of the rules are being followed that make the rules, how legitimate are the plans crafted in secret?

I'm not exactly a revolutionary, but I think that IF this plan were adopted by NOAA and IF areas 5-9 were completely shut down year-round (both very strong possibilities)...then sportfishers "fishing anyway" is a legitimate response.  The issue is not that there are no fish.  We fish mark-selected so we are NOT the problem.  As it stands, hatchery fish by law have to be marked, and there's no indication that will change for this 10-year plan.

The tribes took the "fish anyway" approach in the 70s, and it was absolutely the right thing to do.  It was also effective.

Buuuut on the other hand the sportfishing community hasn't ever really been able to galvanize for any other issue, so why would this be any different.  It would probably be just me and baywolf out there, getting arrested.  That's no fun.  :wink:
2011 19' Sea Ranger, 2011 Suzuki DF115, 2011 Honda 8 kicker

"When you get into one of these groups, there's only a couple ways you can get out. One, is death. The other...mental institutions"

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: The Secretly Crafted Ten Year Chinook Salmon Harvest Management Plan
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 08:15:03 PM »
What is the fine for catching a fish not in season? Not talking about 100, but perhaps one that you might catch while bouncing the bottom for sand dabs. Since none of the rules are being followed that make the rules, how legitimate are the plans crafted in secret?

I'm not exactly a revolutionary, but I think that IF this plan were adopted by NOAA and IF areas 5-9 were completely shut down year-round (both very strong possibilities)...then sportfishers "fishing anyway" is a legitimate response.  The issue is not that there are no fish.  We fish mark-selected so we are NOT the problem.  As it stands, hatchery fish by law have to be marked, and there's no indication that will change for this 10-year plan.

The tribes took the "fish anyway" approach in the 70s, and it was absolutely the right thing to do.  It was also effective.

Buuuut on the other hand the sportfishing community hasn't ever really been able to galvanize for any other issue, so why would this be any different.  It would probably be just me and baywolf out there, getting arrested.  That's no fun.  :wink:

I'll join forces with you guys!
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke