Author Topic: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan  (Read 1363 times)

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Online tsuribaka

10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« on: December 09, 2017, 03:43:21 PM »
I recently returned from overseas and finally got unbanned. I had seen reports elsewhere that WDFW published a plan for managing Puget Sound Chinook for the next 10 years but I don't see any discussion here.

WDFW has been taken to task by the state Fish and Wildlife Commission for not consulting with them prior to promulgating the plan. Several speakers at the Commission hearings over the past few days have suggested WDFW might have also considered consulting with the citizens of the state somewhere in the process prior to concluding negotiations with the co-managers.

Link to the plan on the WDFW website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01947/wdfw01947.pdf

Offline dbhazjack

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2017, 06:51:15 PM »
“Projected exploitation rates that emerge from pre-season planning will, for many management units, be lower than their respective ceiling rates”

Is this referring to the exploitation of sport fishermen in license fees versus reduction of fishing opportunities?  :shark:
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline BayWolf

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 11:22:30 AM »
The 8% impact ceiling on the Stilli may play a very large part in reducing all salmon fishing, especially in low projection years. It could very well shut many area's down completely.
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline Salmon King

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Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 11:43:58 AM »
And now you begin to understand yet another reason I sold the boat....
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
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Offline mustang65fbk

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 07:25:15 PM »
My buddy is part of the PSA (Puget Sound Anglers) forum and someone on there mentioned last week that the WDFW (Ron Warren) and the tribes worked out a new deal behind closed doors about a 338 page document for the tribes to fish.  I read part of the document and in it there are graphs in which the tribes/WDFW are trying to say that the sports-fishermen, while using hook and line, are catching just as many fish as the tribes are with their nets.  When does it get to the point where enough is enough?
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Offline Salmon King

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Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 08:45:29 PM »
Here’s how I look at this 10 year plan...

I’m fear it’s time we face the facts...recreational fishing in Puget Sound is going the way of the dinosaurs.
In 10 years (possibly even less) there will be no season for ANY Salmon species ANYWHERE in Puget Sound and coastal seasons will be extremely curtailed.
To top it off any Rivers and lakes having migrating Salmon will also be closed to recreational fishing.

Honestly...I cannot for the life of me figure out why fishing boat sales continue to set records year over year.

I sold my boat last month because I see the writing on the wall and recognize it for what it is.  For six years now I’ve caught more fish from shore anyway.

Doomsday outlook? 
Eh...maybe.  Maybe...but it might end up being remarkable insight?  Only time will tell...
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
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Offline BayWolf

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 08:40:20 AM »
Rather than give up, I would recommend joining the fight.  Remember, any fish not taken by recreational anglers is called forgone opportunity. The fish will end up in a net.
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline Rokefin

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 11:31:58 AM »
F the netting, and stop the salmon river fishing, then we will see continued healthy salmon runs.
1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline Omega3

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 05:19:53 PM »
The whole thing is a scam.Save wild Chinook?The only Chinook we can keep are hatchery raised.The hatcheries have cut way back on production.Big surprise there are less fish?The nets stay in and guess who gets to keep wild Chinook?Our partners,the tribes.The tribes that don't play by the same rules as us.We could not have a worse partner than the tribes.Partner means equal on both sides.There is no fight to be won or lost as long as the tribes are our partners.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline Rangerman

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 07:41:32 PM »
What I don't understand is how can the only group that uses selective methods never gets a mention by anyone!!
How can any fair minded person look at the 3 user groups and make no distinction?

The sportsman, the only user who uses selective methods, also pays an average of $500.00 per fish for opportunity
to fish for sport, put money back into the economy, funds hatcheries, funds enforcement.

The Commercials fish for profit, kill ESA listed fish to sell for profit, add minimal dollars back into the economy.

The Tribes fish for profit, kill ESA listed fish to sell for profit, add minimal dollars back into the economy.

If I was managing Salmon runs, Reporting on declining Salmon runs, interested in the recovery of Salomon runs
this would be an important factor to acknowledge.





Offline Salmon King

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Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 10:55:46 AM »
F the netting, and stop the salmon river fishing, then we will see continued healthy salmon runs.

That is not necessarily true sir.

Habitat in every river system has and is being systematically destroyed by either logging or human development.
We fail to allow wide enough greenbelt areas for rainwater runoff to be absorbed into the ground thus silt and contaminants get washed into our rivers clogging up the spawning areas.
Then when the nature tries to rejuvenate the rivers through flooding there’s nothing for the eggs to adhere to so the majority gets flushed out too.
One of the most important things we can do to enhance the Salmon runs is to improve our stewardship of our lands.
Things such as:
1.  Requiring greenbelt areas to be at least doubled in size.
2.  When there are no Salmon in the rivers current spawning areas need to be recycled to loosen and flush silt from the gravels (dredges... of which WDFW owns 2 but are never used) would be the preferred and most economical method.  Could even be done at no cost by allowing recreational prospectors to dredge those areas.  Dredging would also remove 99% of the heavy metals (which further pollute our fish and waterways) caught up in the gravel (lead from fishing and hunting, Mercury from OLD time mining operations).
3.  Remove obstructions from the waterways that block or restrict the fish from returning to spawn.

Just these items alone would have a significant impact in restoring the Salmon runs.


Then...if you could ever convince the Commercial and Tribal folks to troll for their fish rather than utilize nets we could win the battle to bring our Salmon back to their earlier glory years.
Realistically though neither of them will give up their netting opportunity without some major incentives and that is where you enter the realm of subsidies.
I have long been a proponent of offering subsidies NOT TO NET just like farmers get subsidies not to grow certain crops. The only difference is that in this case we are dealing with “Sovereign Nations” of people that want continuous revenge for the way their ancestors were wronged.  I get where they are coming from, but to hold entire industries hostage for something that happened many generations ago.
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
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Offline Rokefin

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 12:34:25 PM »
If we were to revenge ancestors all the way back in time we would all be a dysfunctional mess....I strongly believe that eliminating netting and river fishing, or heavily restrict river fishing, even with the other intangibles salmon runs would be extremely healthy. I'm very fortunate that down here in Central Ca  we do not have to deal with all the nonsense that our fellow states in Or and Wa have to deal with..

Just my personal opinion.
1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Online Croaker Stroker

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 12:47:05 PM »

Southern California....White Seabass and California Halibut have made a comeback in-part because of banning nets inside of three miles.

I am old enough to remember when recreational fishermen could not catch either of these species..

http://www.joincca.org

 
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
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"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 10:44:20 PM »
I wouldn't have so much of an issue with the tribes using their nets if they had to put a certain percentage of those profits from their fisheries and casinos back into the fish hatcheries and everything else so that we can sustain/prolong the salmon species.  But seeing as how the salmon species in the northwest is almost getting to the endangered level?  No way.  And if the tribes can net basically whenever they want to, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to fish the same area at the same time with hook and line. 
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
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Offline Chasin Baitman

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 10:11:04 PM »
This plan is as bad as it sounds fellas.  What's almost as bad is the way it was cooked up and rolled out - in total secrecy.  It begs the question, if WDFW doesn't represent us, who do they represent?

Bay Wolf has been doing a nice job spearheading the campaign to pierce the veil of secrecy around salmon policy in this state.  Keep up the good work, BW.

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Offline BruceL2_Fish

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2017, 07:50:37 AM »
 :yeahthat:
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Offline blindmonkey

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2017, 07:34:31 PM »
Interesting article. Canada also has much work to do to save our fish.
http://www.focusonvictoria.ca/novdec2017/the-orca-famine-and-puget-sounds-poisoned-rivers-r16/
Lorne
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Online tsuribaka

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2017, 08:31:46 AM »
I've been trying to follow comments around the internet posted by people studying the plan and here's how I summarize what I think I've learned so far:

This is a bad plan because:

1. It won't work! The regime in use for the past decade has already been successful in "eliminating Puget Sound harvest as a factor" in chinook recovery. Applying the draconian constraints outlined in the plan cannot be reasonably expected to positively impact recovery in any measurable way. To achieve the recovery we all want the focus at this point has to be on improving habitat and increasing production.

2. The cost is too high! Detailed analysis is not yet available but the plan will clearly mean reductions in fishing for all species (due to incidental chinook impacts) well beyond the already severely constrained seasons we've seen recently and could completely shut down all fishing in worst case scenarios. If the plan would help recovery one could argue the cost is necessary to achieve the end goal. But when the plan won't help recovery (see #1 above) it makes no sense at all to put at risk an enterprise that contributes $1.6B annually to Washington's economy.

Any corrections or additional summary points anyone has picked up??

Offline BayWolf

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 07:10:12 PM »
There is some news that is coming in an effort to end what just happened....
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline BayWolf

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2017, 04:34:24 PM »
Several groups have analyzed the Ten Year Plan.  If it is approved as written, it could very well close recreational salmon fishing from Neah Bay in.

The Commission is the last line of defense....we have to get them confirmed.
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

First Sergeant
U.S. Army (retired) :flag:

Offline Dhil12

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2018, 10:59:13 AM »
Here's an article I got from a friend. read it, and consider signing it

Thanks,
Darrell

https://tidalexchange.com/2018/01/04/wdfw-gives-up-puget-sound-fishing-for-nothing/
Darrell
2018 Sea Legend ht with bulkhead
2018 Yamaha 200
9.9 yamaha kicker

Offline Omega3

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2018, 01:55:52 PM »
That's a good article.A wise man told me 40 years ago.If the tribes are given control there will come a day when you won't be able to fish.All of the closures and restrictions placed on the white man has not changed this fact.The Indian refuses to change his ways of fishing and it has destroyed the resource.They manage for themselves and themselves alone.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline Dhil12

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2018, 03:43:54 PM »
That's a good article.A wise man told me 40 years ago.If the tribes are given control there will come a day when you won't be able to fish.All of the closures and restrictions placed on the white man has not changed this fact.The Indian refuses to change his ways of fishing and it has destroyed the resource.They manage for themselves and themselves alone.

I agree. If closures would restore the runs, then it should be closures for everyone, not just sports fishermen,EVERYONE! and I disagree with several other things
Darrell
2018 Sea Legend ht with bulkhead
2018 Yamaha 200
9.9 yamaha kicker

Offline Omega3

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2018, 04:31:54 PM »
I say hook and line for everyone.No commercial harvest for all fishing crab and shrimp.Same seasons and same restrictions for all.That would be an equal sharing of the resourse.10 years of that would bring things back into balance.
05 Sea Ranger 19  05 Evinrude 135 DI   17 Yamaha F8

Offline Tom Mac

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2018, 04:46:36 PM »
Yup every one should be equal, we have the same problems here in Canada.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:36:02 PM by Tom Mac »
1991 Sea Ranger 17, 2014 F90 Yamaha, 2008 T8 Yamaha

Offline KTACK174

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2018, 10:48:12 AM »
From the Everett Herald :  The Everett Steelhead and Salmon clubs monthly meeting is scheduled for 7pm on January 18th at the Everett Firefighter Hall 2411 Hewitt Ave.  The speaker will be Ron Gardner, President of Puget Sound Anglers  He will be discussing the proposed Puget Sound Chinook Management Plan and the effect it could have on Puget Sound fishing.  The meeting is open to the public.  I would encourage anyone in the general area who has an interest in whats going on here to attend.
1999 15'11" Arima SeaChaser   2000 Suzuki 70hp 4-Stroke

Online tsuribaka

Re: 10 Year Puget Sound Chinook Plan
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 07:09:28 PM »
Ron has posted a call for everyone to contact the Fish & Wildlife Commission as soon as possible. As Perry noted in another thread the commission held a conference call discussion today and will decide their policy at a commission meeting at the end of next week. He's also asking for as many people as possible to attend the 19 Jan commission meeting in Ridgefield.

Bureaucracies have a lot of natural inertia. Reversing course on this agreement will rile many of the stakeholders: WDFW, the tribes, NOAA, probably the court that mandated the negotiations, etc. We need the commissioners to be reminded that out of all of the stakeholders we the citizens of Washington are the ones who are their constituents and their job is to represent us. They will need solid demonstration of our dissatisfaction to take what is in their political world an incredibly drastic action. IMO to get the message across numbers are far more important than volume level of anger.

Anyway more info on the PSA site: http://www.pugetsoundanglers.org/ and details on the call to action here: https://gem.godaddy.com/s/4f7167?o=fm