Author Topic: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?  (Read 936 times)

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Online mustang65fbk

Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« on: November 08, 2017, 10:34:18 PM »
Has anyone been out for winter blackmouth fishing lately? I’ve heard from a buddy that they’re doing pretty well fishing them at the race track over by Camano Island or Hat Island? Anyone on here gone out and had any success? I’ve got the weekend off and was thinking that if the weather is decent that I might give it a try.
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 10:53:33 PM »
It's hit and miss.  Watched a huge salmon jumping out of the water maybe 10 times.  It was hooked up but the guys trolling were yucking it up in the warm cabin and never bothered to look back.  The fish finally got off.
Also so a seal with a whopper, chewing on the surface then diving down- attracted a good school of gulls to harrass him, which is how we spotted the scene. 
They are out there, but lots of shakers, too.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline BigSid

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 05:42:33 AM »
Right now I’d be focusing on area 9 before it closes. Double Bluff on outgoing and pilot point on incoming. Of course Possession bar always an option as well. Run large gear or bait to cut down on shakers. 5” plugs and #4 spoons. Troll slightly faster than normal, bigger fish will chase.
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Offline rasslingref

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 08:52:01 PM »
Looks like areas 8.1, 8.2 and 9 are closing soon.

November 9, 2017

Salmon fishing to close temporarily in marine areas 8-1, 8-2 and 9

Action: Marine areas 8-1, 8-2 and 9 closed to salmon fishing, excluding year-round piers.

Effective Date:  Nov. 13, 2017, until further notice.

Species affected: Salmon.

Location:  Marine areas 8-1 (Deception Pass, Hope Island and Skagit Bay), 8-2 (Port Susan and Port Gamble), and 9 (Admiralty Inlet) within Puget Sound, excluding year-round piers.

Reason for action: Before the salmon fishing season started, WDFW and tribal co-managers agreed to a limited number of chinook encounters – retaining or releasing fish – anglers are allowed in each of these marine areas. Test fishery data indicates that anglers will quickly meet or exceed the guideline for encounters because of the abundant number of juvenile chinook, which anglers can't retain.

WDFW is closing the salmon season temporarily and will re-open when there are fewer juvenile salmon and more legal-sized salmon available for harvest.

Other information:  WDFW biologists will continue to monitor these fisheries and coordinate with the Puget Sound Sportfishing Advisory Group to determine the most appropriate time to re-open to maximize the fishing opportunity.

Edmonds Public Fishing Pier is unaffected by this rule change and specific regulations can be found in the Washington Sport Fishing Rules pamphlet.

Information contact: Ryan Lothrop, (360) 902-2808; Mark Baltzell, (360) 902-2807.     
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 09:17:23 PM by rasslingref »
1998 19' SR HT 1999 Honda 90 Yamaha 9.9

Online dbhazjack

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 04:33:36 PM »
I called WDFW asking for the status on this “temporary” closure. Apparently they did a test fishery for a week at various locations around areas 8 and 9 and caught 10 legal chinook. Supposedly they mostly caught juveniles. Based on that they shut us down.

I told him that I found that interesting, because the 2 opportunities that I had to fish Area 9 my buddy and I caught 4 hatchery chinook, ranging from 6 to 8 pounds. We caught no wild and no shakers.

I asked if these areas would reopen before the end of the 2017 season (November 30th) and if so would they extend it into December. No dice. Pretty certain it’s over with only 10 lousy days! Hopeful it reopens in January, but I’m wondering just how much can all these perceived juveniles grow in a month?

I, smelling a rat in this, vented a little with questions of how many more closures and season changes do you think sport fishermen will endure and still buy fishing licenses in Washington? This, of course falling on deaf ears.

I for one will be seriously exploring a Canadian license next year.
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline BigSid

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 09:53:38 PM »
I've made my sacrifice to the fish Gods in the form of new hardware, patiently awaiting the reopening of 8-1 and 8-2 and of course area 7....if it doesn't work out, at least I'll fit right in up in BC.
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Offline Dhil12

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 11:35:14 PM »
Does anyone know what percentage is given to the Native Americans, Commercial and sportsmen? And actually what the catch was for each one of those groups? Not talking about what was recorded, but the actual catch. I would love to know. It may point out who is overfishing
Darrell
2018 Sea Legend ht with bulkhead
2018 Yamaha 200
9.9 yamaha kicker

Offline BigSid

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2017, 12:28:04 AM »
Tribal share is supposed to be 50%, the other 50% is split up between non tribal commercial and the sport fleet as determined in 1976 in the Boldt decision. The numbers are usually blurred or sometimes not reported by the tribes, the Coho debacle in fall of 2016 on Lake Washington comes to mind. Even if you could prove there was overfishing committed by the tribes, who's going to stop them? That's the issue.

This closure has little to do with overfishing, blackmouth is a sport fleet dominated fishery. Closure was based on test boat and derby encounters. To be honest, I'm not sure why we let these derbies keep going. I for one am sick and tired of opening day for damn near any fishery to be more of a total gongshow than it already would be by the addition of a derby. I know the blackmouth program was designed for the sportsman, but seriously, it just eats up encounters early in the season when we know sublegals are going to be prominent and here we are shut down from area 9 onward north. That sucks big time, area 10 is less appealing from Everett in the winter, small craft advisory is hard to fish and makes for a lousy ride home.

As for summer run kings, there are lots of other issues affecting our share here in WA. Alaska and Canada whack a bunch of our fish before they ever return home, whether it be sport, commercial, or predation. The predation numbers are astounding, I've read as high as 40% never make it back based on pinniped consumption.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 12:40:47 AM by BigSid »
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Offline Holokai

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2017, 05:24:58 AM »
I agree with BigSid the derbies have to go.  I think they are a very big part of the problem.   

Offline Tom Mac

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2017, 06:08:14 AM »
I've made my sacrifice to the fish Gods in the form of new hardware, patiently awaiting the reopening of 8-1 and 8-2 and of course area 7....if it doesn't work out, at least I'll fit right in up in BC.

Now there's a nice reel! A blue MR3
1991 Sea Ranger 17, 2014 F90 Yamaha, 2008 T8 Yamaha

Offline BigSid

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 08:20:47 AM »
I've made my sacrifice to the fish Gods in the form of new hardware, patiently awaiting the reopening of 8-1 and 8-2 and of course area 7....if it doesn't work out, at least I'll fit right in up in BC.

Now there's a nice reel! A blue MR3

Can’t wait to get back on the water and put it to work. First king I landed with an Islander I was in Victoria on a charter during my honeymoon last August, it was all over, I had to have one. The Shimano knucklebuster I had been using is a fine reel until you’ve fished an Islander, nothing compares.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 10:54:47 AM by BigSid »
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Online AP

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 10:22:42 AM »
Agree with the need to get rid of the derbies.  Quota-based fisheries get destroyed when a whole fleet of boats is CnRing that many fish while looking for a bigger one. 

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 10:32:41 AM »
Hi Big Sid
I hope you enjoy that reel there really is nothing like playing a fish on an Islander, weather a 10 inch trout on a IR2
or a 15pound northern Coho on a MR3. I have sent a request to the Islanders owner a friend of mine to see if he has a video I can post. Also let me know if you come to Victoria again I can probably arrange a tour of the factory.
Tight lines Tom
1988 Sea Hunter 60 Suzuki 5hp Mariner
1958 9 ft moulded birch 1958 3 hp Johnston and a 30 pound electric

Offline sfever

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 12:06:41 AM »
The Seattle Times recently had an article saying that while sport/commercial/Indian fisherman have had their salmon quota cut by 41% since 1975 seals, sea lions and the non resident Orcas salmon take has increased by 150%. The study also said that the Southern Pod or local Orcas unlike other Orcas don't eat the seals or sea lions so their food source is getting eaten by their ever increasing competitors. The Northern Orcas it seems like are flourishing because they eat the seals/sea lions while the Southern Pod doesn't eat them so they are slowly dying off and letting the seals/sea lions eat the salmon without any limiting factor.

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 06:23:34 AM »
The Southern pods need to learn some new dining habits- they’d all get fat on seals and sea lions!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline blindmonkey

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 07:41:11 AM »
I've made my sacrifice to the fish Gods in the form of new hardware, patiently awaiting the reopening of 8-1 and 8-2 and of course area 7....if it doesn't work out, at least I'll fit right in up in BC.

Very nice, great choice of reel that will increase your enjoyment of playing salmon.
Lorne
2013 17' Sea Chaser, Honda 90, Yamaha F8
1994 Sea Explorer, Mercury 60, SOLD

Offline BigSid

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2017, 05:31:28 PM »
Hi Big Sid
I hope you enjoy that reel there really is nothing like playing a fish on an Islander, weather a 10 inch trout on a IR2
or a 15pound northern Coho on a MR3. I have sent a request to the Islanders owner a friend of mine to see if he has a video I can post. Also let me know if you come to Victoria again I can probably arrange a tour of the factory.
Tight lines Tom

I appreciate the offer, it would be pretty sweet to see the factory!  No doubt they are a great reel, I have admired them for a long time. Thought they were a little overpriced but figured there must be something about them that makes them worth it and I found out what all the fuss is about when I brought in the first fish on an MR2, it was all over.....I should've bought one while I was in BC, that was the plan, but I didn't get time to make it happen. Even though it's a little late, I may get this one engraved with our anniversary on it, since the honeymoon charter trip sold me on it.
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Online mustang65fbk

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 06:08:12 PM »
Tribal share is supposed to be 50%, the other 50% is split up between non tribal commercial and the sport fleet as determined in 1976 in the Boldt decision. The numbers are usually blurred or sometimes not reported by the tribes, the Coho debacle in fall of 2016 on Lake Washington comes to mind. Even if you could prove there was overfishing committed by the tribes, who's going to stop them? That's the issue.

This closure has little to do with overfishing, blackmouth is a sport fleet dominated fishery. Closure was based on test boat and derby encounters. To be honest, I'm not sure why we let these derbies keep going. I for one am sick and tired of opening day for damn near any fishery to be more of a total gongshow than it already would be by the addition of a derby. I know the blackmouth program was designed for the sportsman, but seriously, it just eats up encounters early in the season when we know sublegals are going to be prominent and here we are shut down from area 9 onward north. That sucks big time, area 10 is less appealing from Everett in the winter, small craft advisory is hard to fish and makes for a lousy ride home.

As for summer run kings, there are lots of other issues affecting our share here in WA. Alaska and Canada whack a bunch of our fish before they ever return home, whether it be sport, commercial, or predation. The predation numbers are astounding, I've read as high as 40% never make it back based on pinniped consumption.

No way is it 50/50 between the tribes and the sports fishermen.  As you were saying, they skew their numbers, if they even report them at all and have never been held accountable for the impact they have on the species.  They also don't help replenish what they take.  They use their nets and plunder the bottom of the ocean, taking anything and everything yet don't use the money from the casinos and everything else to put it back into the hatcheries.  Just think if they did, we'd have some of the best salmon fishing in the world.  There's no way us sports fishermen using hook and line catch anywhere near the amount that the tribes do when they use nets that are a mile long... especially when you close down marine areas, marine area 9 comes to mind when they closed it down partway through the season or made it "shoreline fishing only."  Sorry for the rant... I'm just sick of the "reverse racism" and the tribes getting special privileges and not being held accountable, yet we all have to suffer because of their over-harvesting.
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline BigSid

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 07:55:52 PM »
Tribal share is supposed to be 50%, the other 50% is split up between non tribal commercial and the sport fleet as determined in 1976 in the Boldt decision. The numbers are usually blurred or sometimes not reported by the tribes, the Coho debacle in fall of 2016 on Lake Washington comes to mind. Even if you could prove there was overfishing committed by the tribes, who's going to stop them? That's the issue.

This closure has little to do with overfishing, blackmouth is a sport fleet dominated fishery. Closure was based on test boat and derby encounters. To be honest, I'm not sure why we let these derbies keep going. I for one am sick and tired of opening day for damn near any fishery to be more of a total gongshow than it already would be by the addition of a derby. I know the blackmouth program was designed for the sportsman, but seriously, it just eats up encounters early in the season when we know sublegals are going to be prominent and here we are shut down from area 9 onward north. That sucks big time, area 10 is less appealing from Everett in the winter, small craft advisory is hard to fish and makes for a lousy ride home.

As for summer run kings, there are lots of other issues affecting our share here in WA. Alaska and Canada whack a bunch of our fish before they ever return home, whether it be sport, commercial, or predation. The predation numbers are astounding, I've read as high as 40% never make it back based on pinniped consumption.

No way is it 50/50 between the tribes and the sports fishermen.  As you were saying, they skew their numbers, if they even report them at all and have never been held accountable for the impact they have on the species.  They also don't help replenish what they take.  They use their nets and plunder the bottom of the ocean, taking anything and everything yet don't use the money from the casinos and everything else to put it back into the hatcheries.  Just think if they did, we'd have some of the best salmon fishing in the world.  There's no way us sports fishermen using hook and line catch anywhere near the amount that the tribes do when they use nets that are a mile long... especially when you close down marine areas, marine area 9 comes to mind when they closed it down partway through the season or made it "shoreline fishing only."  Sorry for the rant... I'm just sick of the "reverse racism" and the tribes getting special privileges and not being held accountable, yet we all have to suffer because of their over-harvesting.

I'm going to go ahead and make a couple remarks here......the tribes do have hatcheries and they do a good job of raising fish. That isn't fiction, it's fact. The early closures (encounters) and shoreline fishing are agreed upon between WDFW and the tribes. We have only WDFW to blame there, they represent us at the bargaining table and those numbers are agreed upon in advance.

As far as numbers being skewed, that is something that is definitely an issue with the tribes. There is distrust in how many fish they are actually being taken and the bycatch that's involved in netting.
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Online mustang65fbk

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 10:39:14 PM »
Tribal share is supposed to be 50%, the other 50% is split up between non tribal commercial and the sport fleet as determined in 1976 in the Boldt decision. The numbers are usually blurred or sometimes not reported by the tribes, the Coho debacle in fall of 2016 on Lake Washington comes to mind. Even if you could prove there was overfishing committed by the tribes, who's going to stop them? That's the issue.

This closure has little to do with overfishing, blackmouth is a sport fleet dominated fishery. Closure was based on test boat and derby encounters. To be honest, I'm not sure why we let these derbies keep going. I for one am sick and tired of opening day for damn near any fishery to be more of a total gongshow than it already would be by the addition of a derby. I know the blackmouth program was designed for the sportsman, but seriously, it just eats up encounters early in the season when we know sublegals are going to be prominent and here we are shut down from area 9 onward north. That sucks big time, area 10 is less appealing from Everett in the winter, small craft advisory is hard to fish and makes for a lousy ride home.

As for summer run kings, there are lots of other issues affecting our share here in WA. Alaska and Canada whack a bunch of our fish before they ever return home, whether it be sport, commercial, or predation. The predation numbers are astounding, I've read as high as 40% never make it back based on pinniped consumption.

No way is it 50/50 between the tribes and the sports fishermen.  As you were saying, they skew their numbers, if they even report them at all and have never been held accountable for the impact they have on the species.  They also don't help replenish what they take.  They use their nets and plunder the bottom of the ocean, taking anything and everything yet don't use the money from the casinos and everything else to put it back into the hatcheries.  Just think if they did, we'd have some of the best salmon fishing in the world.  There's no way us sports fishermen using hook and line catch anywhere near the amount that the tribes do when they use nets that are a mile long... especially when you close down marine areas, marine area 9 comes to mind when they closed it down partway through the season or made it "shoreline fishing only."  Sorry for the rant... I'm just sick of the "reverse racism" and the tribes getting special privileges and not being held accountable, yet we all have to suffer because of their over-harvesting.

I'm going to go ahead and make a couple remarks here......the tribes do have hatcheries and they do a good job of raising fish. That isn't fiction, it's fact. The early closures (encounters) and shoreline fishing are agreed upon between WDFW and the tribes. We have only WDFW to blame there, they represent us at the bargaining table and those numbers are agreed upon in advance.

As far as numbers being skewed, that is something that is definitely an issue with the tribes. There is distrust in how many fish they are actually being taken and the bycatch that's involved in netting.

"Many tribal fisheries have declined up to 80 percent, some have disappeared all together."

"Tribes are forced by treaty to fish in particular areas. Because they can’t move their fisheries to focus on certain healthy runs, they bear an unequal burden in the effort to protect weak wild stocks. If returns are low to a particular tribe’s usual and accustomed area, that tribe won’t fish. Sport fishermen, however, are allowed to fish throughout the region, focusing their efforts on healthy runs."

https://nwifc.org/about-us/fisheries-management/questions-and-answers-on-tribal-salmon-fisheries/

I call total BS.  Even when the runs are truly at low levels the tribes are still allowed to fish yet the sports-fishermen, who account for way less than 50% of the total catch of fish per year get a limited, if any season at all.  The State/WDFW/ETC should definitely be doing a much better job fighting for us to have at least a decent fishing season... that being said this year was hands down night and day difference compared to what it was last year in 2016, which was an absolute joke.  I think one of the big things this year was the fact that the State/WDFW/Sports-Fishermen/General Public/ETC brought forth the incomplete/non-existent tribal fishing data proving that they're not being held responsible for their actions and are over-harvesting the crap out of all the fish without helping to replenish what they take.  That and the fact that in 2016 there was supposed to be a "very low return" on coho and other salmon species and was reported as such by the seattle times, amongst other newspapers, yet it turns out the run was much higher than expected... hmmm that's odd.  These stories about low fishing returns were the top stories in the news yet when the PSA/Sports-Fishermen tried running a story with the times it was barely advertised.  Sounds a bit like foul play to me.

https://tidalexchange.com/2016/12/23/no-coho-catch-reports-sound-tribes-2016/
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 10:42:25 PM by mustang65fbk »
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline Dhil12

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 07:13:05 PM »
Tribal share is supposed to be 50%, the other 50% is split up between non tribal commercial and the sport fleet as determined in 1976 in the Boldt decision. The numbers are usually blurred or sometimes not reported by the tribes, the Coho debacle in fall of 2016 on Lake Washington comes to mind. Even if you could prove there was overfishing committed by the tribes, who's going to stop them? That's the issue.

This closure has little to do with overfishing, blackmouth is a sport fleet dominated fishery. Closure was based on test boat and derby encounters. To be honest, I'm not sure why we let these derbies keep going. I for one am sick and tired of opening day for damn near any fishery to be more of a total gongshow than it already would be by the addition of a derby. I know the blackmouth program was designed for the sportsman, but seriously, it just eats up encounters early in the season when we know sublegals are going to be prominent and here we are shut down from area 9 onward north. That sucks big time, area 10 is less appealing from Everett in the winter, small craft advisory is hard to fish and makes for a lousy ride home.

As for summer run kings, there are lots of other issues affecting our share here in WA. Alaska and Canada whack a bunch of our fish before they ever return home, whether it be sport, commercial, or predation. The predation numbers are astounding, I've read as high as 40% never make it back based on pinniped consumption.

No way is it 50/50 between the tribes and the sports fishermen.  As you were saying, they skew their numbers, if they even report them at all and have never been held accountable for the impact they have on the species.  They also don't help replenish what they take.  They use their nets and plunder the bottom of the ocean, taking anything and everything yet don't use the money from the casinos and everything else to put it back into the hatcheries.  Just think if they did, we'd have some of the best salmon fishing in the world.  There's no way us sports fishermen using hook and line catch anywhere near the amount that the tribes do when they use nets that are a mile long... especially when you close down marine areas, marine area 9 comes to mind when they closed it down partway through the season or made it "shoreline fishing only."  Sorry for the rant... I'm just sick of the "reverse racism" and the tribes getting special privileges and not being held accountable, yet we all have to suffer because of their over-harvesting.

I'm going to go ahead and make a couple remarks here......the tribes do have hatcheries and they do a good job of raising fish. That isn't fiction, it's fact. The early closures (encounters) and shoreline fishing are agreed upon between WDFW and the tribes. We have only WDFW to blame there, they represent us at the bargaining table and those numbers are agreed upon in advance.

As far as numbers being skewed, that is something that is definitely an issue with the tribes. There is distrust in how many fish they are actually being taken and the bycatch that's involved in netting.

"Many tribal fisheries have declined up to 80 percent, some have disappeared all together."

"Tribes are forced by treaty to fish in particular areas. Because they can’t move their fisheries to focus on certain healthy runs, they bear an unequal burden in the effort to protect weak wild stocks. If returns are low to a particular tribe’s usual and accustomed area, that tribe won’t fish. Sport fishermen, however, are allowed to fish throughout the region, focusing their efforts on healthy runs."

https://nwifc.org/about-us/fisheries-management/questions-and-answers-on-tribal-salmon-fisheries/

I call total BS.  Even when the runs are truly at low levels the tribes are still allowed to fish yet the sports-fishermen, who account for way less than 50% of the total catch of fish per year get a limited, if any season at all.  The State/WDFW/ETC should definitely be doing a much better job fighting for us to have at least a decent fishing season... that being said this year was hands down night and day difference compared to what it was last year in 2016, which was an absolute joke.  I think one of the big things this year was the fact that the State/WDFW/Sports-Fishermen/General Public/ETC brought forth the incomplete/non-existent tribal fishing data proving that they're not being held responsible for their actions and are over-harvesting the crap out of all the fish without helping to replenish what they take.  That and the fact that in 2016 there was supposed to be a "very low return" on coho and other salmon species and was reported as such by the seattle times, amongst other newspapers, yet it turns out the run was much higher than expected... hmmm that's odd.  These stories about low fishing returns were the top stories in the news yet when the PSA/Sports-Fishermen tried running a story with the times it was barely advertised.  Sounds a bit like foul play to me.

https://tidalexchange.com/2016/12/23/no-coho-catch-reports-sound-tribes-2016/

I agree. I beleive the Native Americans need to be regulated and fish count checked. How does anyone know if they catch 100 salmon and report 10 so they can keep fishing because they haven't  met their quota? Who checks them? I beleive they are self regulated for fish count?If the runs of salmon are diminishing, I doubt it is because of sportsmen. Hunting is the same thing but another story.
Darrell
2018 Sea Legend ht with bulkhead
2018 Yamaha 200
9.9 yamaha kicker

Online mustang65fbk

Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 08:41:14 PM »
Tribal share is supposed to be 50%, the other 50% is split up between non tribal commercial and the sport fleet as determined in 1976 in the Boldt decision. The numbers are usually blurred or sometimes not reported by the tribes, the Coho debacle in fall of 2016 on Lake Washington comes to mind. Even if you could prove there was overfishing committed by the tribes, who's going to stop them? That's the issue.

This closure has little to do with overfishing, blackmouth is a sport fleet dominated fishery. Closure was based on test boat and derby encounters. To be honest, I'm not sure why we let these derbies keep going. I for one am sick and tired of opening day for damn near any fishery to be more of a total gongshow than it already would be by the addition of a derby. I know the blackmouth program was designed for the sportsman, but seriously, it just eats up encounters early in the season when we know sublegals are going to be prominent and here we are shut down from area 9 onward north. That sucks big time, area 10 is less appealing from Everett in the winter, small craft advisory is hard to fish and makes for a lousy ride home.

As for summer run kings, there are lots of other issues affecting our share here in WA. Alaska and Canada whack a bunch of our fish before they ever return home, whether it be sport, commercial, or predation. The predation numbers are astounding, I've read as high as 40% never make it back based on pinniped consumption.

No way is it 50/50 between the tribes and the sports fishermen.  As you were saying, they skew their numbers, if they even report them at all and have never been held accountable for the impact they have on the species.  They also don't help replenish what they take.  They use their nets and plunder the bottom of the ocean, taking anything and everything yet don't use the money from the casinos and everything else to put it back into the hatcheries.  Just think if they did, we'd have some of the best salmon fishing in the world.  There's no way us sports fishermen using hook and line catch anywhere near the amount that the tribes do when they use nets that are a mile long... especially when you close down marine areas, marine area 9 comes to mind when they closed it down partway through the season or made it "shoreline fishing only."  Sorry for the rant... I'm just sick of the "reverse racism" and the tribes getting special privileges and not being held accountable, yet we all have to suffer because of their over-harvesting.

I'm going to go ahead and make a couple remarks here......the tribes do have hatcheries and they do a good job of raising fish. That isn't fiction, it's fact. The early closures (encounters) and shoreline fishing are agreed upon between WDFW and the tribes. We have only WDFW to blame there, they represent us at the bargaining table and those numbers are agreed upon in advance.

As far as numbers being skewed, that is something that is definitely an issue with the tribes. There is distrust in how many fish they are actually being taken and the bycatch that's involved in netting.

"Many tribal fisheries have declined up to 80 percent, some have disappeared all together."

"Tribes are forced by treaty to fish in particular areas. Because they can’t move their fisheries to focus on certain healthy runs, they bear an unequal burden in the effort to protect weak wild stocks. If returns are low to a particular tribe’s usual and accustomed area, that tribe won’t fish. Sport fishermen, however, are allowed to fish throughout the region, focusing their efforts on healthy runs."

https://nwifc.org/about-us/fisheries-management/questions-and-answers-on-tribal-salmon-fisheries/

I call total BS.  Even when the runs are truly at low levels the tribes are still allowed to fish yet the sports-fishermen, who account for way less than 50% of the total catch of fish per year get a limited, if any season at all.  The State/WDFW/ETC should definitely be doing a much better job fighting for us to have at least a decent fishing season... that being said this year was hands down night and day difference compared to what it was last year in 2016, which was an absolute joke.  I think one of the big things this year was the fact that the State/WDFW/Sports-Fishermen/General Public/ETC brought forth the incomplete/non-existent tribal fishing data proving that they're not being held responsible for their actions and are over-harvesting the crap out of all the fish without helping to replenish what they take.  That and the fact that in 2016 there was supposed to be a "very low return" on coho and other salmon species and was reported as such by the seattle times, amongst other newspapers, yet it turns out the run was much higher than expected... hmmm that's odd.  These stories about low fishing returns were the top stories in the news yet when the PSA/Sports-Fishermen tried running a story with the times it was barely advertised.  Sounds a bit like foul play to me.

https://tidalexchange.com/2016/12/23/no-coho-catch-reports-sound-tribes-2016/

I agree. I beleive the Native Americans need to be regulated and fish count checked. How does anyone know if they catch 100 salmon and report 10 so they can keep fishing because they haven't  met their quota? Who checks them? I beleive they are self regulated for fish count?If the runs of salmon are diminishing, I doubt it is because of sportsmen. Hunting is the same thing but another story.

 :yeahthat:
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Re: Winter blackmouth fishing near area 9?
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 08:14:40 AM »
I hate to say it but we are getting screwed, we do not get out measly percentage of salmon out of the split.

Don't blame the derbies, they are  for hatchery fish that we already bought and paid for!

WDFW "manages" the salmon runs, they determine the closures, quota split between commercial and sportsmen.
So when we went to selective fishing for sportsmen only it was suppose to give sportsmen more opportunity to fish for hatchery fish.

This does not sit well with the pay to play stakeholders, they fish and sell ESA endangered fish for profit while the ESA endangered fish are declining.... well we have to 1 save the runs somehow and 2 spread the blame...

So sportsmen that fish with selective methods are the good guys right? Well not so fast they are saying even if you fish selectively you still kill the Native fish you release, so they say 15% mortality rate on released fish, also when you release a juvenile it counts against the quota, but how many juvenile salmon make it back to spawn?
NOAA website:
About how many salmon from one spawning pair live from the time they're laid to the time they return as adults?
Each female salmon can have between 1,500 and 10,000 eggs. Only a few (0 to 10) of these eggs will survive to be adult salmon. A population maintaining its size only produces one adult from each parent on average (two adults from each spawning pair), but it will be higher in some years and lower in others.
 
So it seems a bit unfair to count the mortality rate at 15%, this is just a way to keep us off the water!!
but life is not fair and if you have deep pockets from Casino's or the sale of ESA listed wild caught chinook salmon to fund politics.....

BTW the Tribal hatcheries receive millions in federal dollars.......Our money.....

My prediction for the future...... The Tribes have a working model they like, its the lake Washington Sockeye. It is closed every year to sportsmen because we don't make escapement, well when it does open once every 15 years its great on the economy. The Tribes fish this every single year!  WDFW takes the catch numbers given to them from the Tribes and subtracts that number from the escapement numbers.... so if we ever get 350,000 returning Sockeye we can open up a season on lake Washington. My guess is NO!