Author Topic: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .  (Read 1043 times)

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Offline Arimaway

1987 Sea Ranger 17.
2016 Mercury 90 Command Thrust 4-STROKE

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 06:32:44 PM »
That illustrates how boats sink in following seas.  The wave in back lifts the stern and buries the bow, fully deployed trim tabs make this event more likely.  Great kid to save the boat guy!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Wiley

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 06:59:12 PM »
Ok I get the following seas . But something doesn’t look right to me, why is the bow so low to begin with, kinda looks like it was full of water or something. ?
86 c Dory 22’ new 90 hp etec (sold)
96 sea explorer 15'-11" new 90 etec named (wutz wuzn cuzn)
10' Don Hill Pram
 Respectfully, Build, Buy, Be American

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 07:06:20 PM »
If you refuse to wear your PFD, it helps to have a 13 year old kid with a surf board handy...   :nono:

StreamFixer
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 09:12:58 PM by StreamFixer »
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline ATGEP

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 07:43:09 PM »
Foam.......Keeps boats from sinking when the operator makes a mistake!

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 07:53:44 PM »
Foam filled boats won't sink but they will swamp and roll over...
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 09:07:02 PM »
Ok I get the following seas . But something doesn’t look right to me, why is the bow so low to begin with, kinda looks like it was full of water or something. ?

+1. 
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline GregE

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 09:30:18 PM »
It was definitely bow heavy- very little freeboard all around.

Close stacked waves made it worse.  At least it was Florida waters.
Greg
Osprey 26 LC Kodak;  Arima SR 19 HT; SL 22 Honda 225
http://www.sagecreekforums.com/phpforum/index.php
Sold:  Arima SE 16 WeeBait; SH 15 WeeBoat;
SR 21 NoBait;  SL 22 ReBait

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2017, 05:42:16 AM »
   Something similar to that happened to me some years ago while heading out the mouth of the Merrimack River in Newburyport.  My little Arima took a nose dive over a steep one.  The water came up over the bow (very unusual for this boat) and made it to about the windshield.  This little craft bounced right back up and shed-it-off like a short-haired lab. :biggrin:   Anyway, off we went; happily on our way. Never got a drop on us.  Oh, did I say............I LOVE my Arima.  Oh ya, almost forgot, anybody still want a center console? 

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Rokefin

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2017, 08:00:48 AM »
No center console for me but not for that reason alone, covered bow would have helped him though.

So what is the lesson here - was he just too slow to throttle before the wave caught up to him?
Boatless
Gone - 1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline AJFishin

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2017, 09:22:35 AM »
I found a longer video from the person who recorded it.

The guy who recorded it said, "letting you know that he was Off-Throttle when the Following Wave pushed him into the next wave".

To me it looks like the boater was coming in to fast in following seas, and the swells piled up on him.
Maybe his boat was sinking, do to no plug in, and he was trying to get in the harbor?

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba1j5TIHgNa/
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 09:53:12 AM by AJFishin »
'96 Sea Chaser 16 - Yamaha 70HP - 2 smoke

! Go Kings Go !

Offline Diablo

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2017, 10:05:51 AM »
What a cool kid. :applause:
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline Rokefin

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2017, 10:25:43 AM »
Oh yes, that boat was already heavy in the water :doh:
Boatless
Gone - 1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline HemiGTX

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2017, 11:38:52 AM »
Certainly no heroic action on behalf of anyone standing on the jetty.

AKA: "The guy who fishes with Nicole"

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2017, 11:51:56 AM »
Remember the photos in the Arima “water trapped in the bilge” thread?. (I think posted by Salmon King)

There were baffles with drainage holes. Those baffles/floor supports would prevent water from running from stern to bow when decelerating.

Something to think about when buying a boat.
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline AJFishin

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »
Here's some extra info on the guy in the boat and it seems he's got into a little bit of trouble back in 2009 with FWC and was fined almost $52,000.
http://sportsmanstrail.com/palm-beach-co-commercial-fisherman-in-brevard-co-fined-50000/

I believe people change and learn lessons, so I hope this was just an unfortunate accident.

The talk on a couple of Florida forums is his boat and bow was over loaded with fish and ice and he was trying to out run the strong winds and make it to the safe harbor.
So it seems his boat was not taking on water, but was very bow heavy.
There's also a "go fund me" page set up for him to raise $20k to get a new boat.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 02:11:03 PM by AJFishin »
'96 Sea Chaser 16 - Yamaha 70HP - 2 smoke

! Go Kings Go !

Offline Threeweight

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 02:23:29 PM »
Irony is if he had waited 2 hours the bar would likely have calmed down significantly.  Those look like standing waves on an outgoing tide, not big breakers from swells.  Winds would have to be pretty darn strong to make me want to cross in conditions like that.  :bigshock:

Also highlights why boats designed for rough water and bar crossings in the PNW tend to have big, buoyant bows.  If you bury the nose, you want it to pop back up as quickly as possible.  I love the fishing space on those center consoles, but hate the potential to swamp like this.

I have a love-hate relationship with the open bow on my tin can.  I love the bow access, but I don't like the potential to hold a few hundred pounds of water up there if I bury the nose.  Mine is at least double walled... a lot of tin cans are single walled, and have anchor lockers up there that drain into the bilge.

Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Croaker Stroker

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 02:25:18 PM »


I like having something to brace my knees against.  :wink:
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Rokefin

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 03:27:15 PM »
Very observant 3weight, I watched the video again. I cross a bar every time I go fishing, twice, but I pick my days. I need to start paying attention to more detail because one of these days I will be caught down south when the north wind sheer decides to move in quickly.

I also feel that love/hate relationship with the center councils and fish on one once in a while, as much as I like the room to move around, mainly rock fishing, I would never buy one. I also dislike the lack of protection from the elements. Same with the tin cans they are also very roomy, light, and have their pluses, but would never see myself buying one. I love the cuddy with the covered bow, like the fiberglass with the skip top and canvas so I am very well protected.
Boatless
Gone - 1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline Old No7

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Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 10:15:08 AM »
   Something similar to that happened to me some years ago while heading out the mouth of the Merrimack River in Newburyport...

NASTY stretch of water there Yat!

I've had a few hair-raising trips through there, made a couple of rescues (back in 70s-80s) and also turned many a boat back too -- mine included, a few times.

Oh, and one time a USCG boat passed us -- and they all looked scared and seasick!!  We wondered if we'd be rescuing them that day...

Old No7
"A bad day on an Arima, is better than a good day at work!"

Offline Cannon

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 03:43:21 PM »

Ok I get the following seas . But something doesn’t look right to me, why is the bow so low to begin with, kinda looks like it was full of water or something. ?
The guy was probably carrying an overload of illegal fish, he has history!
http://archive.tcpalm.com/news/palm-beach-co-commercial-fisherman-in-brevard-co-fined-50000-ep-383553388-343810082.html/ :shark:
Started a gofund me account too:
https://www.gofundme.com/replace-dave-sanders-boat
Remember, the ark was built by amateurs; while the Titanic was built by professionals.

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2017, 05:47:29 AM »
    WHAT?   This person broke the law, now wants to be funded?   This reminds me of a story about a guy who tried to sue a homeowner for assaulting him while he was breaking into his house.   :hoboy:

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Sparhawk

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2017, 05:23:14 PM »
Ok I get the following seas . But something doesn’t look right to me, why is the bow so low to begin with, kinda looks like it was full of water or something. ?
Make that +2. It was either full of water or he had WAY too much stuff in the bow. I wonder what position his trim tabs were in too though.
"God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind I will never die" - Calvin and Hobbes

Sparhawk:
1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
70 Horsepower Evinrude

Offline AlexB

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2017, 01:31:39 PM »
I was thinking the same thing about the trim tabs. Notice how the big coolers/boxes float high in the water once they’re free from the boat. I guess they could have already lost their contents, but I don’t see a big pile of dead fish or ice floating next to them...

Maybe those boxes were serving as livewells? That sure would be heavy...


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Offline Threeweight

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2017, 02:46:45 PM »
Boxes may have been full when the boat flipped.  There is a gap in video about 11 seconds in... notice when you see the boxes bobbing at 12 seconds the boat has gone down and the boxes are all missing their lids.  Indicates to me something was in them and it sank.

From what I have read, his in-floor fish boxes were most likely packed with fish and ice, which is why he was riding so low. 
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline wedocq

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
After analyzing this video, he was definitely slow on the throttle. At .02 sec into the video, he really needed to be throttling up hard. He must have had a lot of weight in that bow with how low it was riding!
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Sparhawk

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2017, 10:20:21 PM »
After analyzing this video, he was definitely slow on the throttle. At .02 sec into the video, he really needed to be throttling up hard. He must have had a lot of weight in that bow with how low it was riding!
-Shawn
That’s a good thought about throttling up. That would help keep his bow from dipping into the water and going into a nosedive.
"God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind I will never die" - Calvin and Hobbes

Sparhawk:
1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
70 Horsepower Evinrude

Offline seren

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2017, 11:50:12 AM »
I found a longer video from the person who recorded it.

The guy who recorded it said, "letting you know that he was Off-Throttle when the Following Wave pushed him into the next wave".

To me it looks like the boater was coming in to fast in following seas, and the swells piled up on him.
Maybe his boat was sinking, do to no plug in, and he was trying to get in the harbor?

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba1j5TIHgNa/

I don't think he was coming too fast. It looks like he was following the wave in front of him. From the distance between his boat and the wave behind at the beginning of the video, it looks like he was running at the same speed of the waves at first. But then when he got to the mouth of the inlet, there seems to be swells that made the wave in front of him look to slow down. I guess
that was why he slowed down as well. I don't know if it's recommended to have someone one else to watch the wave behind the boat or not. But that seems to be as important. Good experience to learn. Don't let the wave behind the boat to catch up to you.

Offline Threeweight

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2017, 12:07:33 PM »
To me those look like standing waves, not swells.  Outgoing tide from a large bay/inlet passing over a shoal or sandbars at the constricted part of the inlet = standing waves kick up.

It looked to me like he came off throttle, then had a swell push him from behind into the standing wave in front and flood the boat.  In a bar crossing out here in the NW, we'd try and handle that situation just as Shawn described.... match speed with the swells, throttle down as you crest a wave, throttle up before you hit the trough to lift the bow up and climb the next one.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline AlexB

Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2017, 01:48:14 PM »
I agree that looks like groundswell (or windswell...) from offshore meeting up with a group of standing waves at the inlet.

What’s your strategy for navigating through standing waves like that?

(For the sake of discussion, let’s assume that waiting for slack tide isn’t an option.)



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Offline seren

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2017, 02:35:40 PM »
.... match speed with the swells, throttle down as you crest a wave, throttle up before you hit the trough to lift the bow up and climb the next one.

If you ease on the throttle as you crest a wave, wouldn't the wave (or in your term the swell) behind you catch up to you? And when it does, it will lift your stern up and you may end up like the guy in the video. The wave behind you will not slow down no matter what is in front of you.

Offline Threeweight

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2017, 03:07:21 PM »
If you stay off throttle for too long, yes you will get caught.  That's what happened to this guy, IMO.  He throttled down just as his nose started hit the next wave, then the swell picked up the back end of the boat and accelerated it into the wave, burying the nose.

I try to have a guy watch behind the boat to tell me if they see anything building that may break when I am coming in across a bar.  Match speed as best you can with incoming swells, and try to ride the backside of them.  If one looks like it is going to break, you want to throttle up and get out of its way (either by outrunning it or quartering away from it at speed).

These standing waves make things MUCH harder, and that is why I would never cross in those conditions unless it was a matter of life and death.  If you have to cross in those conditions, all you can do is match swell speed, and constantly be jockeying the throttle.  Power up to lift the bow out of any troughs and avoid burying the nose, and to climb steep waves.  Come off throttle and pause for a few seconds while you crest the waves (so you don't launch into the air).  Be ready to come back on throttle as you near the trough, to maintain steerage and pick up the nose before it buries into the next wave.

Sometimes the standing waves are just too tightly spaced to allow for much maneuvering.  In that case, all you can do is slow down to just on plane (14-16 mph in my boat), trim the bow way up, and try to zig zag through them (taking them at 45 degree angles instead of head on), while you watch and gun it if a breaking swell starts to catch up.

Bar crossings suck, and in general, it is ALWAYS preferable to wait for a more favorable tide to cross on.  When the tide starts to flood in, those standing waves disappear and you just have the swell to contend with (and they will likely be much smaller without the outgoing tide push them up).  IMO, this guys biggest mistake was trying to cross on an ebb tide.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 03:12:51 PM by Threeweight »
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2017, 05:09:47 PM »
And make sure your trim tabs are UP.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Dhil12

Re: Amazing how fast this boat sunk. .
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2017, 05:31:55 PM »
Watching this I see a few problems which others have said. The boat is loaded heavey in the bow and he cut his throttle in the trough, instead of staying riding the wave ahead of him. Also remember waves come in sets. If you are going in in a following sea try to find the calm water between sets and follow that in
Darrell
2018 Sea Legend ht with bulkhead
2018 Yamaha 200
9.9 yamaha kicker