Author Topic: About those sponsons...  (Read 825 times)

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Offline darci

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About those sponsons...
« on: October 31, 2017, 09:43:01 AM »
An Arima hallmark, great at floating an engine and making the boats uber stable!
However, I think Mr Arima's stern design was for a single small (efficient, affordable) engine.

(The big boats can and do take twin engines)
 
While a work of art, the "no 90 degree-anywhere-Arima" complaint (as my davit manufacturer calls it) sure does complicate a kicker mount.
 
So, were kickers just not thought "necessity" when our boats were designed?

I am joyfully (nervously) running on a new E-tec 90 with no kicker...trolls so nice in the Columbia!

My New England friends think a "kicker" is the brown neoprene boots we all have a worn out pair of!

Online Croaker Stroker

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 11:32:45 AM »
Arimas came with a stainless steel adapter from the factory which is ready to mount a kicker motor mount on. (Mine is an ‘87.)

1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Online Yachter Yat

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 01:47:16 PM »
   When you say "kicker" to anybody in New England, they think you're talking about football.............and when I say "anybody", I'm talking about guys who actually "own"  boats.  :whistle:

Yat
Dear Arima:  Stretch the Hunter platform by 5. Next, stretch the Explorer by 9 and steal 2 or 3 from the cabin.  Please hurry, I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline Salmon King

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Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 02:06:20 PM »
There really is only 1 problem with trolling on the main...
The massive build up of engine hours.
And on an Etec that means more trips to the shop because their schedule is figured on total engine hours.
PLEASE...Fly your flag Proudly, and remember to thank a Vet!
9’ Pontoon (Bismarck)
8’ Pontoon (Hood)

Offline Markshoreline

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 02:10:39 PM »
Quality manufacturers of fixed kicker brackets such as Arima angle the extension so that it goes straight back rather than out at the angle of the sponson.  They produce a quality bracket that is competitively priced. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 07:22:09 AM by Markshoreline »
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Threeweight

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 03:54:50 PM »
All of the Arima's I've seen had kicker brackets on them, or the provisions for brackets made at the factory.  Originally, they shipped with OMC hydraulic brackets or Gaerlick spring-loaded.  Both adjust on the kicker-side of things to correct for the angle.  More recent boats have had the fixed bracket option.

A top of the line kicker is $3000, and costs maybe $50 to do a full service of, and burn maybe .5 of a gallon per hour trolling.  A decent 90 hp motor is going to cost near $10,000 these days, and cost two or three times that.

I know which one I'd rather rack up the hours on!
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Online Yachter Yat

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 05:21:22 AM »
    Yea, I hear you.  I can understand the need for a kicker motor where trolling for hours chasing a particular species of fish is necessary........(obviously the case in the Northwest).   That said, not a lot people troll for fish around here.  In New England, your either out jigging the bottom, or sitting in (or at the mouth of) a river waiting for striped bass to show-up.   Consequently, most people would be buying a kicker simply for the sake of insurance against an already very dependable modern outboard.  A waste of money, IMO.   

Yat
Dear Arima:  Stretch the Hunter platform by 5. Next, stretch the Explorer by 9 and steal 2 or 3 from the cabin.  Please hurry, I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline darci

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Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 12:05:32 PM »
Well I drifted about for years fishing halibut in the Inside Passage.
What changed my take by about a factor of 12 was anchoring during peak slack tides. Usually in 20 minutes or so there was movement under the boat...

What little trolling I did was for salmon but was often interrupted by halibut, sometimes the take was really severe until they let go of the flasher.

Anchoring up and throwing spoons is fun, and can out produce trolling.

Seems like anchoring to fish the Columbia is the law or something.

Not really using the main to troll much, just when the need to move across or away, we just drop the troll gear and idle around a bit.
 
I may carry the kicker forward just in case in salt water.
Using the electric on dedicated battery, works too if you really want to s-l-o-w d-o w-n...

Nice to not have another item to steer fish around in the stern area.
Maybe some day I will rejoin the kicker crowd.
Maybe not.

Offline First Cabin

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 12:35:07 PM »
In Cabo, our Mexican Guide had just put a new Yamaha 150 on his Panga.  He sold his old Honda 130 to another guide and we saw that guide running around near us.

Honda 130

8,000 hours

100% saltwater

Never flushed, boat is moored

Oil changed every 100 hours, waterpump as needed.

Kicker?  Why?

Around here some will say the world ends if you don’t flush after every trip and would never keep/buy an outboard with 1,000 hours.

Makes me very comfortable with my 2002 Yamaha F100 with 700 hours and I don’t worry about a few extra trolling hours.


First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline Rokefin

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 01:33:32 PM »
Darci
Then a kicker is not for you....most of us either troll with a kicker or have one as a safety backup as I do. I don't think you will be able to talk anyone out of their kicker motor no matter what their use is.
1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline Markshoreline

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »
In Cabo, our Mexican Guide had just put a new Yamaha 150 on his Panga.  He sold his old Honda 130 to another guide and we saw that guide running around near us.

Honda 130

8,000 hours

100% saltwater

Never flushed, boat is moored

Oil changed every 100 hours, waterpump as needed.

Kicker?  Why?

Around here some will say the world ends if you don’t flush after every trip and would never keep/buy an outboard with 1,000 hours.

Makes me very comfortable with my 2002 Yamaha F100 with 700 hours and I don’t worry about a few extra trolling hours.



How many hours must these motors have on them?
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Online Fisherdv

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 02:49:35 PM »
I’m still debating on whether I want a kicker or not. About 75-80% of the time I’m trolling for either salmon, halibut, or stripers. The other times I’m either drift fishing, or anchored up for sturgeon. I don’t want to rack up all those hours on the main, but I don’t want to have to hold a tiller handle all day and have another motor to flush and maintain either.  :shrug9: I guess for me it’s the cost of a kicker mostly, is it really worth another 3-4K ?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 02:55:43 PM by Fisherdv »
2018, 16 ft Arima Sea Chaser, Honda 60HP

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 02:58:54 PM »
I've often thought the same thing about getting a kicker... there are obvious pros and cons for each side of the equation.  The pros for getting a kicker would be that if your motor craps out for whatever reason that you'd have a backup.  It would also take hours off the main motor and probably get you better fuel economy than the main?  The cons that I can think of would obviously be the price.  A new 6-9.9hp kicker motor I'm guessing would be $2500 and up, less for a used one obviously.  But you can buy a lot of gas for a couple grand.  Also another negative would be that you're adding more weight to an already low arse end of the boat.  I have heard the same things about these 4 stroke main motors though... that you can put 4k+ hours on them with relatively low maintenance and they still perform like a champ, if you take somewhat decent care of them that is.  A friend of a friend has a Honda 4 stroke for his main and it's got over 5k hours on the motor and still running just fine. 
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline mustang65fbk

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2017, 03:06:18 PM »
In Cabo, our Mexican Guide had just put a new Yamaha 150 on his Panga.  He sold his old Honda 130 to another guide and we saw that guide running around near us.

Honda 130

8,000 hours

100% saltwater

Never flushed, boat is moored

Oil changed every 100 hours, waterpump as needed.

Kicker?  Why?

Around here some will say the world ends if you don’t flush after every trip and would never keep/buy an outboard with 1,000 hours.

Makes me very comfortable with my 2002 Yamaha F100 with 700 hours and I don’t worry about a few extra trolling hours.

I wonder if the cold winters up here in the northwest where it gets to freezing temperatures have some kind of impact on longevity?  The friend of the friend that I have lives in Oregon and it's similar in weather conditions to Washington but Mexico I don't think ever gets very cold, especially during the winter.  I flush my motor with Salt Away just for peace of mind and then use some Stabil for the fuel since it will likely sit for 6 months or more.  Some have advised to do way more than that and some say you probably don't even need to do that.  Seems a lot like personal preference and what has worked well in the past for some.
2003 21' Sea Ranger Skip Top
2004 Honda 130hp 4 Stroke

Offline Markshoreline

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2017, 03:41:06 PM »
The motors in Mexico are not flushed but are run daily, that probably makes a big difference.  We park ours for weeks or months at a time and in that case it's better to flush.

In all my years on Puget Sound, I've only had to get home with the kicker one time but that was enough.  New Yamaha main blew a rotor stator at Eglon across Puget Sound and I had launched 6 miles away at Edmonds.  It is worth the cost and weight to have a back up although it did take a bit over an hour to get back to our home dock.  As a bonus, the kicker will troll all day on a gallon and keep hours off the main.

It would be pretty easy to end up on the beach or on some rocks if all you have is a paddle while you wait for help to show up.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline gfakkema

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2017, 04:23:35 PM »
Along with all the reasons listed above, speed is another factor. The slowest I can get my main is 3.5 or 4 mph. That's too fast for Chinook IMO and I would have a hard time trolling if I didn't have a kicker. The benefits of running a kicker FAR outweigh the negatives.
2001 22' Sea Legend HT w/Alaskan Bulkhead
2006 Suzuki DF250 / 2004 Mercury 9.9

Offline Tom Mac

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2017, 04:50:21 PM »
When I had my old 2 stroke 120 hp it would not troll slow enough for salmon, now that I have a 4 stroke I can slow down to 1.5 mph. But the kicker is not going any were and I almost never use it. If the main packs it in for any reason I'm still coming in, if I ran twin mains there would be no kicker. My kicker is only there for safety now.
1991 Sea Ranger 17, 2014 F90 Yamaha, 2008 T8 Yamaha

Offline Threeweight

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2017, 05:12:54 PM »
Sitting kills 4 stroke motors, not too many hours.  Most Mexican guide pangas get run every single day.  Their ports don't face big swells on bar crossings, and the panga's  I've fished in down there stick close to shore.  I've seen mid-80's 2 stroke Yamaha's down there still going strong... most of those motors sold in the PNW died long ago with less than 500 hours on them.

Folks who fish more protected waters in the PNW are probably fine with no kicker, especially if they have Sea Tow or some similar service in the area.  IMO, it is not very healthy to fish the ocean, or big coastal bays/estuaries, without a kicker (or twin engines).

Doesn't matter how well your motor is running... hit a crab pot rope on the CR or Tillamook bars when they are rough and you are going to have very bad day.  Heck, even a sunfish or blue shark suddenly popping up in front of your boat on the ocean can result in a spun prop hub.  With kicker you might have a slow ride in, but it's better than trying to paddle your boat back across the bar.  Even on a strong ebb current, a kicker at least lets you keep the boat pointed in the right direction, and vastly reduces the risk of a capsize. 

To each his own, I guess.  To me, a kicker is a basic piece of safety equipment, and a way to reduce wear and tear on my $25k main motor.


Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Online Fisherdv

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2017, 05:26:45 PM »
You guys make very good points about the need for a kicker as a safety backup. When I can pony up the BOAT bucks I will get one. The safety factor alone is worth it. I do fish ocean and a large often nasty rough bay as well as delta and river with some good current
2018, 16 ft Arima Sea Chaser, Honda 60HP

Offline darci

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Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2017, 05:51:31 PM »
Very early in our Arima ownership when the First Sargent was piloting, she hit a three foot piece of two inch diameter floating rope. right there in the scum line with other assorted green floating stuff.

We rather suddenly slowed down. Prop not spun, blades all flattened and similarly curled on the ends.
Cleared the rope. I thought it would be a good idea to use the kicker back to the harbor, maybe three NMs away.

It worked, I could have anchored and changed out the prop, that would have been faster! Other than trolling a bit in no wind situations that was about my total use in seven years. About 450 hours on the old 2 stroke main and about half as much on the six horse.
 Both engines were 1997 Yamahas as new on Darci when we bought her.
 Anybody need a Michigan Wheel 17 pitch for a Yamaha? And a new in the box for a 6 HP?
My wife was upset, I told her it was just like getting a flat tire! The prop guy fixed it and gave it back about two years later. I do carry spare parts.

Offline blindmonkey

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2017, 07:29:58 PM »
I always use my kicker for trolling.  Cheap to run and easy to use with an EZ steer and iTroll kicker throttle control for precise speed control. The iTroll is one of the best things I have bought. On my boat the kicker gets far more hours than the main each year.
Lorne
2013 17' Sea Chaser, Honda 90, Yamaha F8
1994 Sea Explorer, Mercury 60, SOLD

Offline BigSid

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2017, 08:59:21 PM »
What kills me is seeing guys in the summer on flat calm days trolling at almost 3 mph on their main and the kicker trimmed up along for the ride....thats a travesty
2016 SR19 Honda 135 & 9.9

Online Fisherdv

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2017, 09:07:05 PM »
Sitting kills 4 stroke motors, not too many hours.  Most Mexican guide pangas get run every single day.  Their ports don't face big swells on bar crossings, and the panga's  I've fished in down there stick close to shore.  I've seen mid-80's 2 stroke Yamaha's down there still going strong... most of those motors sold in the PNW died long ago with less than 500 hours on them.

Folks who fish more protected waters in the PNW are probably fine with no kicker, especially if they have Sea Tow or some similar service in the area.  IMO, it is not very healthy to fish the ocean, or big coastal bays/estuaries, without a kicker (or twin engines).

Doesn't matter how well your motor is running... hit a crab pot rope on the CR or Tillamook bars when they are rough and you are going to have very bad day.  Heck, even a sunfish or blue shark suddenly popping up in front of your boat on the ocean can result in a spun prop hub.  With kicker you might have a slow ride in, but it's better than trying to paddle your boat back across the bar.  Even on a strong ebb current, a kicker at least lets you keep the boat pointed in the right direction, and vastly reduces the risk of a capsize. 

To each his own, I guess.  To me, a kicker is a basic piece of safety equipment, and a way to reduce wear and tear on my $25k main motor.



25K main?  :bigshock:
2018, 16 ft Arima Sea Chaser, Honda 60HP

Offline Rokefin

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 07:36:40 AM »
What kills me is seeing guys in the summer on flat calm days trolling at almost 3 mph on their main and the kicker trimmed up along for the ride....thats a travesty

That would be me....nailing salmon. I have let myself get comfortable out of habit just using the main, but in the future I plan to use the kicker. I have a lock on my kicker and will steer with the main.
1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Online Fisherdv

Re: About those sponsons...
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2017, 09:12:40 AM »
If you do use your main for trolling and want to go slower you could switch to a lower pitch prop during salmon season then switch back to your normal prop. Good time to grease the prop shaft as well. Of course your top end speed will suffer but you’ll get good hole shot and on plane faster with a heavy load. Just an option.
2018, 16 ft Arima Sea Chaser, Honda 60HP