Author Topic: Batteries  (Read 2208 times)

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Online DevMah

Re: Batteries
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2017, 08:49:17 PM »
Thanks Dev. Any recommendations on how to determine whether or not my switch is Make before break? My boat is a 1991 and I believe the switch is original.
Post a pic

Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline Arimadrifter

Re: Batteries
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2017, 06:03:31 AM »
I was able to get the pic into "my images" but couldn't figure out how to post it onto this? It's a perko with 1, 2, All and Off positions.
17' Arima SC with 2017 90hp Yamaha
21' Kiwanda Klipper Dory with 90 HP Honda
18' Hewescraft Sportsman -Sold, 22' Bayrunner Cuddy - Sold
17' North River Revenge - Sold, 17' Whaler Montauk - Sold
24' Skipjack FB - Sold,  18' Seacraft CC - Sold

Online DevMah

Re: Batteries
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2017, 09:33:30 PM »
Here is the link to Perko site

http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/battery_switches-selector_switches/

Most of thier switches are make before break...you should be able to find yours and read the data.

http://www.perko.com/catalog/battery_switches/149/heavy_duty_battery_selector_switch_with_alternator_field_disconnect/


Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline Arimadrifter

Re: Batteries
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 05:10:53 AM »
Thanks for the link Dev.
17' Arima SC with 2017 90hp Yamaha
21' Kiwanda Klipper Dory with 90 HP Honda
18' Hewescraft Sportsman -Sold, 22' Bayrunner Cuddy - Sold
17' North River Revenge - Sold, 17' Whaler Montauk - Sold
24' Skipjack FB - Sold,  18' Seacraft CC - Sold

Offline Arimadrifter

Re: Batteries
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 05:25:47 PM »
Looks like it's a "make before break" model. Sounds like it OK to move between 1, 2 and Both while running, but never OK to switch it to Off while running.
Thanks Dev.

Greg
17' Arima SC with 2017 90hp Yamaha
21' Kiwanda Klipper Dory with 90 HP Honda
18' Hewescraft Sportsman -Sold, 22' Bayrunner Cuddy - Sold
17' North River Revenge - Sold, 17' Whaler Montauk - Sold
24' Skipjack FB - Sold,  18' Seacraft CC - Sold

Offline GHMariner

Re: Batteries
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2018, 06:46:01 AM »
Thanks Dev. Any recommendations on how to determine whether or not my switch is Make before break? My boat is a 1991 and I believe the switch is original.

If you rotate through "Both/All" on the way to "1" or "2", then yes it is.

Offline GHMariner

Re: Batteries
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2018, 07:02:23 AM »
My battery advice is to go with AGM's. They offer so many advantages over lead-acid I can't understand why anyone still uses them.

If you don't have an ACR, I recommend you run with your rotator switch set to "Both/All" while the engine is running. This will keep BOTH batteries charged. Switch it back to 1 or 2 when you are stopped. This way, if you encounter a problem starting and run one battery dead, you are more likely to have charge left in your other battery to keep trying. I also recommend EVERYONE carry an emergency lithium starting pack just in case. Those things are nothing short of amazing.

Lastly, if your batteries will ever be combined (as is the case if you have a traditional rotator switch) you should always replace your batteries at the same time, and with the same type of battery. As they age, a battery's full-charge "float" voltage will drop. If combined with a new battery with higher voltage, the voltage regulator on your engine will see the combined voltage as an average of the two. This will cause the charging circuit to stay open and "cook" the new battery prematurely. Also, to prevent this on a new set of batteries, you should alternate between the two batteries as far as which you use for starting the engine.

Offline Rokefin

Re: Batteries
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2018, 07:25:34 AM »
Thanks for the info GH, I would love to go with the AGM's but recall they are pretty spendy.....I think I have settled on moving my battery's under the passenger seat, I would put them up front as I do not use the porta potty but I have a 2nd fuel tank in the cuddy and I don't feel comfortable putting the batteries up there - makes me nervous with the rear tank saddled by two batteries but at least there is more venting in the rear.

I'll shop for AGM's and see what I can find, time allowing I'll move my batteries but the rewire will wait till next year.
Boatless
Gone - 1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline GHMariner

Re: Batteries
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2018, 07:27:09 AM »
They cost about twice as much, but they will last more than twice as long.

Offline Threeweight

Re: Batteries
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2018, 10:02:03 AM »
Re: AGM's... check your local Bimart (if you have them).  They carry Exide brand AGM's in the dual-purpose flavor, series 24 size, and are around $150.  Cabelas has their house band as well, and sometimes has them on sale.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline BruceL2_Fish

Re: Batteries
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 11:38:46 AM »
I am going to replace my batteries this year as well.  Currently I have lead acid one start and one deep cycle house battery.  Some say it’s not good to have mixed types.   I am set up with the Blue Sea switch and ACR.  What are the thoughts on start and house deep cycle mix.   Been looking at Lifeline AGM’s
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline Rokefin

Re: Batteries
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2018, 11:49:06 AM »
Re: AGM's... check your local Bimart (if you have them).  They carry Exide brand AGM's in the dual-purpose flavor, series 24 size, and are around $150.  Cabelas has their house band as well, and sometimes has them on sale.


No Bimarts in Cali, but I will shop around - I thought the AGM's were twice that.

Thanks
Boatless
Gone - 1989 17ft Arima Sea Chaser 2010 115 Yamaha 1995 9.9 Yamaha kicker - Bodega mostly

Offline ATGEP

Re: Batteries
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2018, 02:28:46 PM »
I just replaced my house battery with group 31 agm duracell from Batteries plus. Price was ok at $239 but has a 30month replacement warranty.  My start battery is normal wet cell. Time will tell if there are compatibility issues. My logic is all charging starts on the start battery side and the acr will link the 2 batteries when either engine is charging the start battery. Since the AGM can supposedly charge at a fast rate, I dont see how the start battery/engines will overcharge the house.  Super excited to have a 105ah house battery for this season.

Online DevMah

Re: Batteries
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 06:24:24 PM »
AtGEP

IMO
I strongly recommend you do no not combine a wet cell and AGM.
They are two different battery types,

Your logic makes  absolutely no sense.
When the engine runs it will combine both batteries as soon as 13.5 v is reached (the ACR is not managing the charge to which battery first...but simply combining).
both batteries are put into parallel.
In parallel the two batteries act as one.
The AGM will recover faster then the wet cell.
The system will overcharge and damage the AGM as your charging system will still try to charge the wet cell even thou the AGM is fully charged.


https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/experience/2014/04/can-i-connect-dissimilar-batteries-parallel


If you were my customer I would not install this.

The choice is yours I can only give guidance

Dev

« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:35:48 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline Fisherdv

Re: Batteries
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 06:50:13 PM »
That was my thought as well when I read that post
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Offline ATGEP

Re: Batteries
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 07:05:27 PM »
I will have to reconsider this. I may pop in a AGM start battery as well.

Offline Fisherdv

Re: Batteries
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 07:47:22 PM »
I believe the 2 batteries should also be of the same size/rating as GH mentioned a few posts ago
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Online Mooch

Re: Batteries
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2018, 07:51:25 PM »
I also recommend EVERYONE carry an emergency lithium starting pack just in case. Those things are nothing short of amazing.

What size would you recommend for emergency starting and an occasional phone/tablet recharge?  1000 Amp sufficient?
2006 Sea Ranger Skip 21, Honda 150, Honda 9.9

Currently accepting hot waypoints from WA MA 2-10

Offline Fisherdv

Re: Batteries
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2018, 09:27:28 PM »
Also when purchasing a battery new it’s not a bad idea to check the date code on them. You’d be surprised that some batteries have sat on the shelf for 1-2 years  :twocents:
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Offline Threeweight

Re: Batteries
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2018, 11:22:19 PM »
I have experience with the 1000 amp lithium ion jump packs are probably sufficient for any Arima-sized outboard.  Big enough to jump a v6 or small v8 gas engine if it starts quickly. 

From what I have read, big gas V8's are better with the bigger 2000 amp units.  Diesel truck engines need bigger still (2500 amps or better).
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline GHMariner

Re: Batteries
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2018, 05:10:59 AM »
I have experience with the 1000 amp lithium ion jump packs are probably sufficient for any Arima-sized outboard.  Big enough to jump a v6 or small v8 gas engine if it starts quickly. 

From what I have read, big gas V8's are better with the bigger 2000 amp units.  Diesel truck engines need bigger still (2500 amps or better).

I have an 800 amp unit that I have used to start my Tahoe (5.3L V8) several times. It usually fires right up despite the main battery being completely shot, and still registers at 99-100% after doing so.

Online DevMah

Re: Batteries
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2018, 10:16:58 AM »
Guys
IMO
I don't think you need to carry a jump pack if you have a two battery system, why not just add the ACR so that there is no possible way to discharge the start battery and make it automatic... For the added price of a ACR or battery kit  and having this switching being done automatically... I would seriously think that common sense kicks in and that you check your batteries/fuel before you head out. 

If that's the case then better keep 2 jump packs in case the one you brought was not charged...

The only way this would make sense if  you had a single battery system, but I would recommend that you add a second battery... if your charging system was to ever fail while you were out, once the start battery was depleted you would be dead in the water, the jump pack would do nothing for you (as it has a short duration of charges). This also goes if your battery all of a sudden shorted, so you can start your motor to get running with the jump pack but strain/possibly damage your charging system.
This is when you would switch to your second deep cycle and have a better chance to make it back to the nearest dock, or be able to use your good battery to radio for help.



If you have a 2 battery system here is what I would do in the event the start battery failed
-Switch to battery 2 only try to start
-If a no go as a "Hail Mary" combine the battery's and try again.
If both battery's combined wont start the engine then you have a possible charging/connection/battery/fuse or starter issue...
-Try to pull start or if you have a kicker use it.

If you want to combine batteries manually to charge, please install Voltmeters to check each batteries voltage before combining. Make sure you have over 12v per battery, the worst thing is to combine a good and bad battery and cause further damage.


 Once again this is just my  :twocents: the decision is always yours.


Dev
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:55:41 AM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Online Croaker Stroker

Re: Batteries
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2018, 11:33:11 AM »


I always keep my batteries fully charged. I carry a third battery dedicated to the Fishfinder. I always check the terminals for corrosion. I replace my batteries after three years, even if they are good....

Then my starter fell off.  🙄
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."

Offline Fisherdv

Re: Batteries
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2018, 11:46:37 AM »
Emergency start rope  :shrug9:
2018, Sea Chaser 16, Honda 60HP

Online Croaker Stroker

Re: Batteries
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2018, 11:52:15 AM »
1987 - 17' Sea Pacer - 2004 Evinrude 90 E-tec
15' Sea Sprinter - **SOLD**

"If a fish will, he will… if he won't, he won't… and that's about it… except… he may take this when he won't take that."