Author Topic: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???  (Read 1524 times)

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Offline DevMah

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2017, 07:51:31 PM »
You mean there are rules you have to follow.
Crap. That means I have to follow directions.

No you don’t have to follow rules...lol..
The decision is alway yours we can just recommend safe practices.
In Canada we have to as Transportation Canada has incorporated ABYC standard into thier Regs the USA has not as they go by USCG.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp1332-menu-521.htm


Dev
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 07:27:11 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline DevMah

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2017, 07:29:52 PM »


In my above post you will see direct reference to ABYC and USCG CFR under reference organizations

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp1332-menu-521.htm


Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline Markshoreline

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2017, 08:00:52 PM »
I'm pretty sure Tunacious was just being funny with that comment!   :jester:
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline DevMah

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2017, 08:09:15 PM »
I'm pretty sure Tunacious was just being funny with that comment!   :jester:

I know just having some fun my wife tells me the same thing...
I have to follow her house rules otherwise I’m sleeping in the dog house...lol
By the way we don’t have a dog the neighbors dog Max was all upset. :bigshock:  :arms:


Lol....

Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline FishAddict

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2017, 02:59:46 PM »
Blue Sea Tech support told me that the batteries to any motor starter is not required to be fused.  Since the House battery can be put in combine mode so it's not required either.  I'm planning on fusing between the ARC and the switch.  Also planning on fusing between the house terminal on the switch and the fuse panels.  Anyone want to chime in on fusing the main and house batteries itself?  Currently mine have nothing from the dealer
21ft Sea Ranger w/Yamaha F150

Offline Morty

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2017, 03:56:07 PM »
I used  to work in the battery industry and have a different insight to this.  Bear with me a bit for a backgrounder.

As everyone here likely knows, most starting and house batteries are made up of lead plates in an acid bath.  Those "plates" are actually lead/calcium grids with lead oxide paste applied to make what looks like a solid lead plate.  in some batteries the plates are separated from shorting against each other by a sheet of special blotting paper.  Better batteries have porous envelopes that surround each plate.  The most common cause of battery aging and failure is the lead oxide falling off the hard lead core grids.

Long story short.  Having batteries in a place where they'll experience a lot of pounding will cause the lead oxide to fall off faster and shorten the life.  That's why most boat designers put them as far back as possible where their 'ride' is more stable.

Morty

Offline DevMah

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2017, 03:56:36 PM »
Blue Sea Tech support told me that the batteries to any motor starter is not required to be fused.  Since the House battery can be put in combine mode so it's not required either.  I'm planning on fusing between the ARC and the switch.  Also planning on fusing between the house terminal on the switch and the fuse panels.  Anyone want to chime in on fusing the main and house batteries itself?  Currently mine have nothing from the dealer

Fish Addict
Yes Blue Seas is correct there is no Regulation for this (CFR-USCG)

FYI
Both my batteries have 200A fuses at their connections. I would recommend that If you do not fuse your positive cables to the switch then at least install a self draining corrugated wire loom. This will protect the wires from shorting out if the outer jacket rubs and wears through.

Dev
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 04:03:51 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline FishAddict

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2017, 12:18:42 PM »
Does anyone have pictures of installing batteries under the skippers chair in a seat box?  I'm considering this vs the storage bin on the starboard side in the bow.  Also I'm thinking about having two batteries in parallel for the house as I have a ton of accessories and want to be able to do some overnight trips in the sound and ocean (I want to be able to run my radar with proximity alarm and bait tank through the night).  Any draw backs to having two house batteries in parallel besides the extra weight? (I know they need to be the same specs and age)
21ft Sea Ranger w/Yamaha F150

Offline 58Johnson

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2017, 03:27:50 PM »
FishAddict check your PM
2002 Sea Chaser 15 11
Yamaha F70 Yamaha F8

Offline Diablo

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2017, 11:00:42 AM »
Does anyone have pictures of installing batteries under the skippers chair in a seat box?  I'm considering this vs the storage bin on the starboard side in the bow.  Also I'm thinking about having two batteries in parallel for the house as I have a ton of accessories and want to be able to do some overnight trips in the sound and ocean (I want to be able to run my radar with proximity alarm and bait tank through the night).  Any draw backs to having two house batteries in parallel besides the extra weight? (I know they need to be the same specs and age)

I did that without the seat box. I bought a large battery box with a lid that would hold two batteries from Fisheries Supply. Then I built a stand out of starboard about 2” high. The stand is so I can clean under it. The box is attached to the stand and to the lower bin next to the seat via two 2” plastic conduit nipples and bushings. I also added a panel of starboard between the upper and lower bins that the switch and ACR are attached. You lose the use of the lower bin fo storage because of all the cable.
I didn’t want a seat box for one they are $200, and I like to swivel to face aft in the helm seat to watch rods. The weight transfer worked out great to compensate for trolling motor and move weight forward.
Yes you can connect batteries in parallel. On our big boat we have four 6 volt golf cart batteries in series parallel for out house loads.

'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline FishAddict

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2017, 11:26:10 AM »
Thanks Diablo!  I'm not sure if I can make that work as I have a smooth move suspension seat that I want to keep using as it has saved my back.  Time to get my tape measure out.
21ft Sea Ranger w/Yamaha F150

Offline FishAddict

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2017, 07:50:13 PM »
I went to my local Yamaha dealer today to see what they had for AGM batteries and wire to make the run to the helm or cuddy cabin.  Much to my surprise the guy at the counter tells me not to buy AGM batteries for my Yamaha F150 motor that they are not recommended and that my alternator would kill the batteries prematurely and/or cause damage to my Yamaha alternator.  The motor manual says nothing about this and only list a CCA requirement.  Has anyone ever heard of this it seems crazy not to go for a better AGM battery, but I don't want to damage my motor.
21ft Sea Ranger w/Yamaha F150

Offline FishAddict

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2017, 07:51:27 PM »
It's not often someone try's to talk you out of spending money at their store....so it has me wondering if it's true.
21ft Sea Ranger w/Yamaha F150

Offline Markshoreline

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2017, 07:57:26 PM »
Interesting question Fish Addict, I'm interested to hear responses as I've been considering going to AGMs this year.

Diablo
Very nice install.  Yes, a big kicker plus passenger always tips the boat to port and you have solved that problem without having to put batteries in the cuddy!  Nice Job!
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Threeweight

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2017, 03:58:45 PM »
Your engine can vary the charging output to prevent overcharging a battery, whether it is AGM or otherwise. 

My guess is they don't sell AGM batteries, so...

BTW, I was in a local Honda/Yamaha dealer a couple of weeks ago here in Portland, with a nice big Optima battery selection.  Optima's are a type of AGM.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Tunacious

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2017, 09:07:44 AM »
Lots of discussion to keep up with here.

I am a very visual person and it really helps to see it for me.

Thanks for the photos everybody who had them to post.

I have a question.

If I move my batteries to the front of my boat where the fresh water tank is currently at, is there still a buss bar in the back of the boat to hook the wash down pump and other accessories in the back of the boat to?

2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline StreamFixer

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Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2017, 09:31:42 AM »
That buss bar has nothing to do with battery location.  You will need to bring appropriate size wire from the battery to that buss bar.

StreamFixer
'97 19SC w/ Salt Boss Top
'03 Yamaha 115 EFI
'05 Yamaha T8 Solas 4 blade prop

"By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea..
They, like He, are mightier than me."  Mike Jesperson aka 'Nalu'

Offline Cannon

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2017, 09:13:24 AM »
Lots of discussion to keep up with here.

I am a very visual person and it really helps to see it for me.

Thanks for the photos everybody who had them to post.

I have a question.

If I move my batteries to the front of my boat where the fresh water tank is currently at, is there still a buss bar in the back of the boat to hook the wash down pump and other accessories in the back of the boat to?
I purposely put a buss bar in the stern for my outboard leads. I also added a BlueSeas fuse block to handle my downriggers, wash down pump, LED deck lighting and my autopilot pump. The positive buss bar requires a cover to prevent accidental shorting.
You are more than welcome to come by and look at it at your leisure, just give me a heads up prior to coming by.
Remember, the ark was built by amateurs; while the Titanic was built by professionals.

Offline Diablo

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2017, 09:30:21 AM »
Lots of discussion to keep up with here.

I am a very visual person and it really helps to see it for me.

Thanks for the photos everybody who had them to post.

I have a question.

If I move my batteries to the front of my boat where the fresh water tank is currently at, is there still a buss bar in the back of the boat to hook the wash down pump and other accessories in the back of the boat to?

What is a bus bar? It’s a place to make multiple electrical connections of the same polarity. You can connect as many loads as you need to a bus bar you just need to have a wire big enough to carry the current for all those loads back to the battery. A bus would br like twisting all the wires together with a wire nut....don’t do that!  :twocents:
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline Sparhawk

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2017, 01:14:00 PM »
On Sparhawk I have the battery in a waterproof battery box. It works great. I would never put any electronic in the back of a boat without some kind of protective unit like a waterproof case or something. I would get either a waterproof battery box or move them up to the bow. I hope you get that issue figured out.
"God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind I will never die" - Calvin and Hobbes

1983 Tiderunner 150 Cuddy
70 Horsepower Evinrude

Offline Tunacious

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2017, 07:19:57 AM »
I used  to work in the battery industry and have a different insight to this.  Bear with me a bit for a backgrounder.

As everyone here likely knows, most starting and house batteries are made up of lead plates in an acid bath.  Those "plates" are actually lead/calcium grids with lead oxide paste applied to make what looks like a solid lead plate.  in some batteries the plates are separated from shorting against each other by a sheet of special blotting paper.  Better batteries have porous envelopes that surround each plate.  The most common cause of battery aging and failure is the lead oxide falling off the hard lead core grids.

Long story short.  Having batteries in a place where they'll experience a lot of pounding will cause the lead oxide to fall off faster and shorten the life.  That's why most boat designers put them as far back as possible where their 'ride' is more stable.


Morty
Morty
Thanks for your insight. 

I have been told before it is not a good idea to put your batteries up front of your boat because if the pounding.  I wasn't sure why though.

At first I was going to disregard this advice.  Im not sure now.

I talked to a friend last night about this (Best Boats) and we surmised that is probably the same reason why a battery in a car is always directly over the axel.

I'm going to research moving one of my batteries over to the other side of the boat and then still hooking them together but it would give me more room for each battery. Right now they are very crowded and jammed in there.

Maybe putting them both in a water proof case on slide out trays for easy inspection and maintenance.

They way they are now I can't inspect them without dragging both batteries out together and having a mess of wires to contend with.

While driving home from Best Boats house last night I was thinking about the times I have been on the water and needed to check the battery for a bad ground or what ever.

Even though in the past while checking my battery it was a pain to drag both of my batteries out because of the mess and the small space I think I would rather be in the back of the boat where I can see and keep an eye out for other boats or dangers than up front in the bow of the boat. where I can't see anything.

Im gong to research some sort of slide out trays for my batteries while I think about this.

Ive seen some photos of some pretty nice jobs guys have done on here before with slide out trays.

Thats my plan.   :stooges:
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline Tunacious

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2017, 08:04:51 AM »
Here is an old post from a guy I have not heard from for a while.  Wryguy

Over the years I got a lot of good advice from Rick.

In this post Rick made a slide out tray for his batteries.

http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=11786.msg139112#msg139112
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda

Offline Threeweight

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2017, 11:54:28 AM »
Re: Morty's description... that only applies to wet cell batteries.

A graphic that might help understand the differences:



AGM batteries are sealed, and the plates are bedded in glass mat vs suspended in liquid electrolyte.  This makes them much, much more rugged than flooded cell batteries, and why they are the preferred battery type in a vehicle that sees a lot of vibration/pounding (which is why the military uses them).  Lots of Arima guys have used AGM's in the cuddy, they work great.  Just don't use cheap flooded cells.
Former Sea Chaser 17 owner
Wild Card, Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220, Honda 225 and 9.9

“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
       --- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Tunacious

Re: would like to hear your opinion on moving batteries to the cuddy???
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2017, 06:54:35 PM »
Thanks Threeweight.
2003 Sea Ranger 21' HT
2003 130 Honda