Author Topic: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice  (Read 929 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SB Steve

Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« on: August 27, 2017, 03:39:47 PM »
So I am fueling up my new to me/old Arima this week.  I have been running the engines off a remote 12 gallon tank for the moment.  Fortunately, the main tank was cleaned and emptied before I purchased the boat (which I assume is a 23 gallon based on the model year), and I have also purchased a new 3 gallon tank for the kicker.  All tanks have in-line filters, and I plan on adding a canister filter in the splash well for the main tank.

So I have an 88 Mercury 90 which was oil-injection but now runs off pre-mix as well as a 94 Mercury 8 kicker.  All 2 stroke.  I assume the oil ration is 50:1.  I believe also, I should be using 91 octane gas.  I don't think I need to worry about adding stabilizers, as I will be using the boat all year and not leaving any fuel sitting for too long.  Do I need to worry about adding additives to deal with ethanol?  I will be fueling up at a local Shell and Chevron which both have up to 10% ethanol.  Do I want to add any additives to deal with that?  Is the gas from these kind of stations recommended?

Thanks for the advice in advance.  This forum and its members has been so helpful thus far as I rig my boat since purchasing it last month.

Offline Nineball

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 04:33:48 PM »
First,  get a racor fuel/water seperator that has a clear bowl with a valve to drain residual moisture (check it often).  Second,  find the closest non-ethanol fuel station and use it, highest octane rating available.  Third,  relax and smile when your motors always fire right up.  Pat yourself on the back for being very disciplined regarding points 1 & 2.
SC17, 75etec, T9.9

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 05:00:52 PM »
First,  get a racor fuel/water seperator that has a clear bowl with a valve to drain residual moisture (check it often).  Second,  find the closest non-ethanol fuel station and use it, highest octane rating available.  Third,  relax and smile when your motors always fire right up.  Pat yourself on the back for being very disciplined regarding points 1 & 2.
Doesn't look like there are any ethanol free stations within a few hundred miles.  California!  I was deciding between running a racor or a canister.  Don't think I have the need/space for both.  I always ran both in my I/Os. 

Totally agree on #3!!   :beerchug:

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2017, 11:39:33 PM »
You'll need two separate fuel filter systems/filters for 2 stroke and 4 stroke motors but just one filter if both are 4 strokes.  I run Seafoam in whatever fuel I use- mostly important in a carbuerted motor.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 09:19:47 AM by Markshoreline »
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline beancounter

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 04:05:07 AM »
Mark he said both were 2 stroke. One filter will do it all. If you keep your fuel fresh and run em both regularly only thing I would use is something like ringfree and then do a seafoam decarbon maybe once a year or so.

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 05:09:42 AM »
    Avoid marine stations on the water.  Try to frequent the busiest inland gas stations.  Always fill your boat AFTER filling your tow vehicle......(from the same pump, of course).   Use only high test and juice-it with StarTron.   Have fun.

Yat   
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline First Cabin

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 01:19:18 PM »
You will be wasting money on 91 octane fuel.  If it were ethanol-free....great, use it.  But otherwise, it's a waste of money on a 1988 2-stroke!
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 04:25:23 PM »
Mark he said both were 2 stroke. One filter will do it all. If you keep your fuel fresh and run em both regularly only thing I would use is something like ringfree and then do a seafoam decarbon maybe once a year or so.
Yup they are both 2 stroke and I was planning on plumbing the filter to run both motors off the main tank.  The question is what do with my 3 gallon kicker tank.  I plan on using it mostly as a spare tank in case I have fuel issues while at sea, but I don't sea an easy way to also run it through the filter without adding in a valve or quick disconnect to the filter.  Wondering if the in-line filter would work ok in a pinch.  I would plan on dumping it into the main if it wasn't used in a reasonable amount of time.  Also still not sure if I should go with a canister filter or a Racor.  Also wondering where people mount them.  The splash well seems to be the best place for my boat.  I am going to look into Sea foam like you and Mark mention.  It seems I would lean more toward using it as an annual or so treatment.

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 04:29:17 PM »
    Avoid marine stations on the water.  Try to frequent the busiest inland gas stations.  Always fill your boat AFTER filling your tow vehicle......(from the same pump, of course).   Use only high test and juice-it with StarTron.   Have fun.

Yat   
I will take that advice, in particular the have fun part.  I was wondering about Startron.  It is on sale right now too.

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 04:31:28 PM »
You will be wasting money on 91 octane fuel.  If it were ethanol-free....great, use it.  But otherwise, it's a waste of money on a 1988 2-stroke!
Definitely not going to find ethanol free gas in my area.  Mercury suggests 91 even on their older outboards.  Not really sure what to do there.  I guess it depends on how much fuel I am going to go through.

Offline Diablo

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 04:35:14 PM »
 :yeahthat: Startron.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline First Cabin

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 05:01:29 PM »
You will be wasting money on 91 octane fuel.  If it were ethanol-free....great, use it.  But otherwise, it's a waste of money on a 1988 2-stroke!
Definitely not going to find ethanol free gas in my area.  Mercury suggests 91 even on their older outboards.  Not really sure what to do there.  I guess it depends on how much fuel I am going to go through.

Mercury suggests 91, even on old 2-strokes?  Show me that in writing from Mercury please. 
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline First Cabin

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 05:05:56 PM »
Wow!  Found it.

MERCURY & MARINER FUEL RECOMMENDATIONS
Use a major brand of automotive unleaded petrol (ULP) with a minimum posted octane rating of 91
These recommendations apply to Mercury and Mariner 2-Stroke, 4-Stroke, Verado and OptiMax models unless specified otherwise (ref to "Notes & Exceptions" following)



What a royal pile of bs.  They must of just given up on explaining Octane ratings, compression ratios, etc... There is so much nonsense written on octane and fuel that it isn't worth the hassle.

Use 91.  No harm other than your wallet.
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 05:09:12 PM »
You will be wasting money on 91 octane fuel.  If it were ethanol-free....great, use it.  But otherwise, it's a waste of money on a 1988 2-stroke!
Definitely not going to find ethanol free gas in my area.  Mercury suggests 91 even on their older outboards.  Not really sure what to do there.  I guess it depends on how much fuel I am going to go through.

Mercury suggests 91, even on old 2-strokes?  Show me that in writing from Mercury please.

Off their website:

MERCURY & MARINER FUEL RECOMMENDATIONS
Use a major brand of automotive unleaded petrol (ULP) with a minimum posted octane rating of 91
These recommendations apply to Mercury and Mariner 2-Stroke, 4-Stroke, Verado and OptiMax models unless specified otherwise (ref to "Notes & Exceptions" following)

The exceptions section listed only Verado big HP models and pre-1980 outboards.

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 05:10:51 PM »
Wow!  Found it.

MERCURY & MARINER FUEL RECOMMENDATIONS
Use a major brand of automotive unleaded petrol (ULP) with a minimum posted octane rating of 91
These recommendations apply to Mercury and Mariner 2-Stroke, 4-Stroke, Verado and OptiMax models unless specified otherwise (ref to "Notes & Exceptions" following)



What a royal pile of bs.  They must of just given up on explaining Octane ratings, compression ratios, etc... There is so much nonsense written on octane and fuel that it isn't worth the hassle.

Use 91.  No harm other than your wallet.

You beat me to it!!

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2017, 05:12:15 PM »
:yeahthat: Startron.
So you say in other other words Diablo...All Startron, all the time!

Offline Diablo

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2017, 05:28:48 PM »
Well all Startron might not work but I do use the recommended amount at every fill up. Which is 98% or more of the time fuel with ethanol. If you have a new motor I would skip the initial treatment which is twice the normal amount.
My theory is ethanol causes build up of deposits on small jets and fuel injectors.
I went out with my brother, a motorcycle enthusiast, on my 17 Arima fishing both motors were running poorly and I said "I want new motors." My brother said "you don't need new motors just start using Startron". I did, the motors started running much better. I been using it ever since.
Stable probably is just as good but I'm sticking which what has worked for me.  :twocents:
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline Diablo

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2017, 05:36:52 PM »
This is from the Evinrude repair manual.

'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2017, 05:42:01 PM »
Well all Startron might not work but I do use the recommended amount at every fill up. Which is 98% or more of the time fuel with ethanol. If you have a new motor I would skip the initial treatment which is twice the normal amount.
My theory is ethanol causes build up of deposits on small jets and fuel injectors.
I went out with my brother, a motorcycle enthusiast, on my 17 Arima fishing both motors were running poorly and I said "I want new motors." My brother said "you don't need new motors just start using Startron". I did, the motors started running much better. I been using it ever since.
Stable probably is just as good but I'm sticking which what has worked for me.  :twocents:
I might have to go with it Diablo.  It was the only additive I was thinking about using after reading other threads.  Fortunately I don't have to worry about winterizing, and I am not planning on keeping around idle fuel about.  I guess the only winterizing I do is pull out my little umbrella half a dozen times a year.  But then again, I should probably wear a face mask at about the same interval when the hills are burning!

Offline Markshoreline

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2017, 07:36:57 PM »
Both Everett and Edmonds marinas have excellent non ethanol fuel.  In 8 years I've never had a bad tank from either and I buy gas year round.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 01:50:15 PM by Markshoreline »
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline Holoholo808

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2017, 01:38:50 PM »
Also still not sure if I should go with a canister filter or a Racor.  Also wondering where people mount them.  The splash well seems to be the best place for my boat.

As others have said, Racor with a clear bowl to inspect/drain any water. Mount it inside of the non-removable trim panel around level with the bottom of the splash well. Not sure about clearance issues with a stock tank as my boat didn't have one.

The splash well will work but it'll leave the filter exposed to the elements; you can get a stainless steel filter head but the filter elements are coated steel and won't last as well when exposed to salt water.




1611 SC Honda BF90D

For easier searching go to Google and type "site:www.arimaowners.com (search term)"

Offline SB Steve

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2017, 03:38:37 PM »
Nice!!  ^^^^^^^^

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2017, 05:49:12 AM »
    About octane:   Keep in mind........gasoline in a vented tank will lose a certain amount of its octane rating over time.  Do a little research on this and you may rethink your decision regarding your fuel choice.  Lower octane fuels have a higher rate of detonation........not something you want in your outboard.  My father used to jokingly describe it this way:  High octane goes "Woosh".........Low octane goes "Bang".  (He had a unique way of educating stupid kids)  (ha ha)

Yat

Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60

Offline First Cabin

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2017, 09:30:56 AM »
    About octane:   Keep in mind........gasoline in a vented tank will lose a certain amount of its octane rating over time.  Do a little research on this and you may rethink your decision regarding your fuel choice.  Lower octane fuels have a higher rate of detonation........not something you want in your outboard.  My father used to jokingly describe it this way:  High octane goes "Woosh".........Low octane goes "Bang".  (He had a unique way of educating stupid kids)  (ha ha)

Yat

Unique, but wrong.  As a chemist that calls on refinery labs, I have studied it a wee bit. :wink:

It is true that fuel will lose a few points off the octane level if stored for an extended time.  And ethanol is a terrible adder for a marine fuel that is going to be stored for long periods.  I'm lucky that I have non-ethanol fuel available nearby and use it most of the time.

But the idea that an old 2-stroke, with a low compression ratio, benefits from using higher octane fuel, is nonsensical.  Mercury engineers obviously just gave up trying to explain it to people and are going with "let's just tell everyone to use 91 and avoid the discussion".
First:  1982 15' SeaHunter, Yamaha 70 2-stroke, Yamaha F6
Second:  1987 17' SeaRanger, Merc 90 2-stroke, Yamaha F8
Current:  2002 17' SeaChaser, Yamaha F100, Yamaha T8

Offline Yachter Yat

Re: Speaking of Ethanol...fueling up for first time: Advice
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2017, 12:45:32 PM »
    Gasolines with different octanes burn at the different rates..........and octane does degrade.  Therein lies the problem.  Don't let anybody tell you any different. 

Yat
Dear Arima:  Please "square-off" the Hunter transom.  Make it like my old 77 Silverline.  Thank you.  Oh yeah...please hurry; I'm getting old.

16 SC/Honda 60