Author Topic: Run Time? (Read 3002 times)

Markshoreline · « **on:** July 18, 2017, 07:05:35 PM »

Normally, I turn off the 150 and troll with the kicker when fishing with downriggers. However, I've had issues with the house battery getting drawn down when crabbing all day but especially when shrimping using an electric pot puller so I have begun leaving the big motor running all day when doing those power sucking activities. It helps the house battery keep up, though it still needs recharging when I get home.

I've heard that some folks never turn off their main motor when out for the day so to avoid the risk of it not starting up.

My question is what are your thoughts about the balance of running the big motor continuously vs. adding lots of hours on it (my 2014 already has 450) vs. managing battery charging during high drain activities?

Hydroman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2017, 07:32:44 PM »

Mark,

Just a couple of questions,
1. Do you have an ACR that parallels your batteries?
2. Does you kicker have a charging circuit?

My last two boats both had Suzuki DF 140 Blue Sea ACR's and I never had any problems keeping either batteries, the Suzuki charging circuits seem to run at a high voltage than my previous boat with a Honda 90 HP, it not uncommon to see my voltage as high as 14.5 volts. I rarely ever see the ACR not combined.

Jim

Dbobby23 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2017, 07:47:14 PM »

Hookup the kicker to charge problem solved. In my case I have 2 batteries not connected in anyway. 1 battery is solely for the big motor, second is for everything else, pot puller, downriggers, lights, fishfinder, etc, which is charged by the Yamaha f8. I just got back from a 4 day trip crabbing and shrimping, pulling up countless pots, I got back home and was curious how dead my battery was going to be. I only ran my f8 a couple times in 4 days. Multi meter sais 12.3 v the Yamaha f8 must throw out a huge charge.

Diablo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2017, 07:58:11 PM »

Trolling with downriggers, main off trolling motor running.
Pulling shrimp pots with power puller, main on. I'm going from pot to pot.
Crab pots, I have been pulling them by hand but I bought a couple of heavy pots at Costco so I imagine I'll be using the power puller for that, main on, again going from por to pot.
That's main motor just to be clear Mark.

ATGEP · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2017, 08:57:06 PM »

Now that my kicker is purring, I use it a lot more. I high idle the kicker where it puts out 10 amps or so when shrimping and it has worked fine this year. Most of my shrimping this year was completed in 8-12 pulls.

Threeweight · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2017, 09:58:29 PM »

Bear in mind that in cold water, idling all day, you main may "make oil" due to not getting hot enough to deal with condensation in the crankcase. Similarly, carbon build up can be a problem.

If you do it, mix in some periods of wide open, run it like you stole it, RPM's.

Personally, I think this is an artifact of ancient 2 stroke days and shoddy wiring.

Markshoreline · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2017, 10:33:24 PM »

Yes, the Yamaha 9.9 has a charging circuit and there is a Blue Sea ACR in the system. The real issue is shrimping with the 400 foot pulls, twice each 30 minutes that seems to pull down the deep cycle house battery. Plus, the boat usually lives on the hook so there is no shore power to bring the batteries up to full charge. I may just need to pull the boat after each big pull session for a land based charge.
Neither motor has ever made water, though I had that issue with a really old T8 that came with my 19SR.

Diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2017, 10:52:58 PM »

" twice each 30 minutes" you might want to let them soak a litter longer. Like an hour or two.

Croaker Stroker · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2017, 11:02:46 PM »

Mark, how about a third deep cycle that you carry home to charge?

ATGEP · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2017, 05:08:46 AM »

The blue sea relay draws a tiny bit unless it is disconnected. You may want to consider a solar charger. I had a 5 watt charger on my sailboat that was on a mooring ball. I only had 1 battery and it kept it up. A 15 watt would work great for you and the acr would link both batteries keeping them topped up.

wedocq · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2017, 08:27:30 AM »

How old are your batteries Mark? I would be a little concerned that even when leaving the boat running all day, the batteries aren't fully charged when you're finished.

-Shawn

PS To you're original question. I never turn the motor off all day when I am tuna fishing.

StreamFixer · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2017, 08:55:03 AM »

Caveat: I am very hearing impaired...

I sometimes run my main all day long, even when trolling. Has nothing to do with charging the system. This is usually the result of someone not telling me the main is running while we are trolling and me not noticing the Tach is showing rpm's

StreamFixer

Salmon King · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2017, 01:22:50 PM »

I do everything off of my main because my kicker has no charging circuit (boy do I wish!).

Having just installed an EZ-steer system and Pro-Troll II I think the only way I'll ever get a kicker that does is if I swap out the motor with the one on the Hi-Laker (10 hp Oil injected Suzi).
But then I couldn't use the Pro-Troll.

Decisions, decisions....

blue heron · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2017, 02:21:18 PM »

I use only my main motor when shrimping or crabbing. I'll drive up to a pot while a crew member grabs the buoy-pole and I then shift the main into neutral. The main idles while we use the electric pot puller. My battery is fully charged at the end of the day.

I don't worry about or track engine hours - I just change the oil twice a year in the main and once a year in the kicker.

Yachter Yat · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2017, 03:11:57 PM »

Pay careful attention to what Threeweight said with regard to 4 strokes making oil as a result of long periods of slow speed running in cold water. Keep an eye on the oil level. If you do notice a steady increase in volume, then it's usually a simple matter of just changing the thermostat. Just has to run a little hotter is all.

Yat

Markshoreline · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2017, 10:03:10 PM »

I replaced the house battery a couple of months ago and the starter battery tested fine and it is 4 years old.
We pulled the pots twice an hour- every 30 mins. Yep, longer soaks would reduce the drain by half. We were in a new area and wanted to make sure we were in good spots.
VT gas suggested the solar charger too. After serious crabbing/shrimping the battery doesn't get a full recharge until I pull the boat onto land...

Hydroman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2017, 10:26:33 PM »

Have you checked your alternator/regulator to see if they your charging circuit is up to par?

How long dos it take to travel to and from your shrimping grounds?

Jim

Markshoreline · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2017, 11:43:17 AM »

Good idea, i know the big motor produces 14+ volts but don't know how to measure amps.

Hydroman · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2017, 01:07:41 PM »

Mark,

Maybe someone on the form has a DC clamp-on AMP meter, you could check the alternator output and also check to see if you have a parasite load on your system that you are not aware of. I will check my inventory of clamp on amp meters to see if any will measure DC current.

Jim

Markshoreline · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2017, 02:38:11 PM »

This morning I went fishing for a change. When running the big motor there was no change in the voltage. However, when I was running the kicker the voltage would go up from 12.5v to 13.5 within 15 minutes.
Something is wrong with the large motor's charging circuit...
Any troubleshooting tips?

Hydroman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2017, 03:34:24 PM »

The charging circuit has three major components:

1. Stator (under the flywheel) leads should be accessible check any plug in connections and check resistance of stator windings with ohm meter

2. Rectifier. most outboards have rectifier fastened to engine block.

3. Voltage regulator, also fastened to engine block.

The rectifier and voltage regulators may show signs of physical damage such as signs of overheating.

I'm not familiar with Yamaha's, there have been previous post that have discussed this condition with Yamahas.

Jim

ATGEP · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2017, 03:58:14 PM »

What was the voltage with the main running? Is this checked using a multimeter or a dash gage? I am guesing it should be close to 14v and the batteries should link via ACR. Since your main starts and the charge circuit uses the same wire, safe to say that is not your problem. Look at everything under the cover for corrosion loose wires, etc. Next I would reference the factory shop manual for troubleshooting. If you dont have one ,you will have to decide if it is worth it to get one (ability and willingness to work on your own motor). Last resort is take it to a shop and break out a boat buck.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Markshoreline · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2017, 07:48:59 PM »

I'll fool around with it some, looking for corrosion, fuses, etc. However, when it came time to understanding electricity and they said it was like water through a hose, well I never got further than that.

GregE · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2017, 11:10:17 PM »

Except current runs on the surface of the hose........

Threeweight · « **Reply #24 on:** July 22, 2017, 03:03:32 PM »

Mark, is the kicker wired off the House battery? I am assuming your electronics are rigged off the House battery? Were you observing voltage on your electronics?

If so, you probably saw your House performance only, via the kicker. If so, that sounds normal... using voltage as a metric, 12.7 volts is ideal for a new battery in good shape that is fully charged, with no load, measured while "resting".

Slightly less is ok for an older battery (ie, 12.4, which equates to about a 75% charge in a 12 volt battery). Less than that in a fully charged battery that has been sitting overnight with no load on it means the battery is weak and should be replaced, or "restored" with a smart charger (may or may not work). When charging a depleted battery via a charger or your engine's alternator, it can go up to 14.4 volts. Once a battery is "fully" charged, it should drop to around 13.4 when the charger/alternator switches over to a maintain or float mode (if it keeps charging at 14.4 it will cook the battery).

If you saw it go to 13.5v with the kicker, that likely means the kicker charging circuit was working fine and the battery was at 100%, with the kicker putting out a little extra charge to offset the load from the electronics.

You wouldn't see anything about the main engines charging in this scenario unless you ran the main and observed the ACR kick in and start sending some charge to the house battery, or you could switch your electronics over to the Start battery and observe it. Another option would be a cheap little voltage meter on the Start circuit, or a clamp on meter like suggested above. If your Yamaha has digital gauges, depending on how the dealer wired them it may also be possible to pull up Start circuit voltage, or even observe alternator output on your engine (my Honda gauges do this).

In any event, it sounds like your kicker is charging just fine, but may not put out enough charge on it's own to offset the draw of your pot puller. Remember the kicker's rated alternator output is typically at WOT.... at idle it puts out a fraction of that. I believe the Yami 9.9's put out 6 amps at WOT, probably 1.5 at idle... that basically equates to a trickle charger at idle, and a basic home charger at 6 amps. If you fully depleted a deep cycle battery, @6 amps you'd be looking at 5+ hours to fully recharge it. Basically, your kicker has no hope of keeping up with the drain of your electric pot puller.

I generally think the T9.9 are the cat's meow on kickers, but one area the Honda 9.9 high thrust shines is the alternator... 12 amp output vs. 6.

So yeah, I think using the main is your best option. Just mix up some extended periods of hard running with the long periods of idling.

First Cabin · « **Reply #25 on:** July 22, 2017, 07:34:57 PM »

This is so darn complicated!!!!!!

1. Sometimes voltage doesn't mean anything. If the kicker with a rectifier doesn't have a voltage regulator(which is normal) and the main with an alternator does(which is normal), the voltage will spike while the kicker is running and be low while the main is running. And neither means anything important.

2. Voltage doesn't mean shit unless it is extremely high (say over 15v) or extremely low (say well under 12v)

3. Even that doesn't mean much... If you are pulling a big load (say pulling a heavy shrimp pot) the voltage may drop below 12v while pulling and recover to 12.6 volts soon after the pull, you may be just fine.

4. Relying on voltage alone is a fools game. Even worse is relying on voltage through a fish finder, displaying voltage off the NMEA 2000 network, when your main is connected to a different battery....I've done that!!!

Clear as mud?

Hydroman · « **Reply #26 on:** August 12, 2017, 04:11:33 PM »

Did you get you charging problem fixed?
Jim

Markshoreline · « **Reply #27 on:** August 12, 2017, 06:59:46 PM »

The boat is still in the water so haven't been able to do much diagnostics. Did stick a volt meter on the batteries and one is at 11.5 and the other is at 12.5 volts. I picked up a Harbor Freight 1.5watt solar charger and clamped it to the low battery two days ago- will check tomorrow and see what difference there is if any.

Threeweight · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2017, 12:11:23 PM »

Does your 11.5 battery have any load on it that is not disconnected by the switch?

At 11.5 volts, that equates to about a 20% charge. It's either going bad or getting hammered by a drain.

Salmon King · « **Reply #29 on:** August 13, 2017, 05:27:15 PM »

On my last trip to MCB I started having a problem with 1of my HDS-7 units. The one I use as a depthfinder.
Anyway...it shuts down unexpectedly.
My son, genius that he his decided to see if it was a battery problem.
He turned the period swith while I was running the main Motor.
Normally that's ok but he accidentally swithched it to off for a split second (actually I think it was more like 2 seconds).
Soon as he turned it back on I checked my engine gauges and the voltage on the nmea network...
Everything appears to be ok. 14.5 volts when I am running but I did notice that the alternator cannot keep up when I troll with the main...voltage will eventually drop.

But...why would that affect only 1 unit and not the rest??
And...for you electronic geniuses out there...how can I solve this?

DevMah · « **Reply #30 on:** August 13, 2017, 10:01:39 PM »

Mark
Can you give me some info...
Type of pot puller...average number or pulls for both crab and shrimp.
Type of engines and alt size.
Your average cruising speed.
Specs on both your battery's. Is one dedicated for engine and other for house.

IMO
It sounds like your are not able to charge both batteries, due to your usage...or possibly a bad cell.

Dev

beancounter · « **Reply #31 on:** August 15, 2017, 02:54:30 AM »

Another thought is a cheap little generator from harbor freight or somewhere to run a charger on your batteries.

TD · « **Reply #32 on:** August 22, 2017, 07:08:27 PM »

If youre in the ocean and maybe having charging problems, id go with keeping the main on...safety first..getting stranded is no fun...my 2 cents.

Markshoreline · « **Reply #33 on:** August 22, 2017, 11:24:38 PM »

OK I've been able to observe the charging issues but have not tested the electronics...
I'm running a Scotty puller and a Scotty downrigger. I'll check the puller each half hour and the DR every 15 mins.
I troll with a 9.9 Yamaha High Thrust and the main is a Yamaha 150.
I run between 25-27 mph cruising which is 4200-4700 rpm.
The starting battery is a small that will fit under the bait well and the house battery is a big one. There is a Blue Sea ACR in the circuit and a Blue Sea switch.
The batteries charge when running the boat but I don't usually run it for more than an hour at a time. It seems that the voltage drops when the boat sits so maybe there is current loss when everything is turned off. How would that be checked?
I have hooked up a 1.5 watt solar panel directly to the house battery and it seems to hold a charge better when the boat is sitting.
It's in the water 24/7 so not available for battery chargers.

Croaker Stroker · « **Reply #34 on:** August 22, 2017, 11:59:54 PM »

To test for current loss, I remove the Positive cable and connect a test light between the positive battery lug and the cable.... Should be no light.

Hydroman · « **Reply #35 on:** August 23, 2017, 08:04:46 AM »

Do you have the auto bilge pump without a float switch? If so the pump will start at a preset intervals, if it detects that the pump is loaded (pumping water) the pump will run until the current (amps) decades to the no load current (amps) value and shut down.

Over time this will discharge the battery.

Jim

Markshoreline · « **Reply #36 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:44:00 PM »

Nope and that's why I don't run that system. With a lot of rain the pumps will kill the battery.

DevMah · « **Reply #37 on:** August 26, 2017, 09:40:36 PM »

Quote from: Croaker Stroker on August 22, 2017, 11:59:54 PM

To test for current loss, I remove the Positive cable and connect a test light between the positive battery lug and the cable.... Should be no light.

That's the same way I do draw tests.

Install a 12v test light
If lit then
Start pulling fuses or wires till you isolate the circuit.

Dev

Markshoreline · « **Reply #38 on:** August 26, 2017, 10:52:03 PM »

Ok I'll do that next. Seperate tests for house and starter, right?

polarbill1999 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 30, 2017, 10:00:57 AM »

I would rig up some sort of digital voltage gauge at the dash that can switch between your 2 banks. What you likely need to do when running the shrimp pots is to start the main and run at something more than an idle to actually keep up with the draw from the shrimp pots.

Starting the day with batteries that are less than 12.5 or so is normally going to be pretty bad. This isn't a cheap option (~$200) but gives a lot of good info. http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/linklite-battery-monitor.aspx

Markshoreline · « **Reply #40 on:** August 30, 2017, 06:25:17 PM »

My 33 year old son is getting married at our home on Saturday so I've been pretty busy for the past couple of months getting prepared for the event. Monday, I'll dig into the boat. Haven't got out but a couple of times to fish!

DevMah · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2017, 04:09:19 PM »

Quote from: Markshoreline on August 26, 2017, 10:52:03 PM

Ok I'll do that next. Seperate tests for house and starter, right?

Yes

top · « **Reply #42 on:** September 03, 2017, 10:39:14 PM »

Quote from: ATGEP on July 21, 2017, 03:58:14 PM

What was the voltage with the main running? Is this checked using a multimeter or a dash gage? I am guesing it should be close to 14v and the batteries should link via ACR. Since your main starts and the charge circuit uses the same wire, safe to say that is not your problem. Look at everything under the cover for corrosion loose wires, etc. Next I would reference the factory shop manual for troubleshooting. If you dont have one ,you will have to decide if it is worth it to get one (ability and willingness to work on your own motor). Last resort is take it to a shop and break out a boat buck.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Boat Buck, new one for me
To funny

Bob...

Diablo · « **Reply #43 on:** September 04, 2017, 09:38:21 AM »

Quote from: top on September 03, 2017, 10:39:14 PM

Quote from: ATGEP on July 21, 2017, 03:58:14 PM
What was the voltage with the main running? Is this checked using a multimeter or a dash gage? I am guesing it should be close to 14v and the batteries should link via ACR. Since your main starts and the charge circuit uses the same wire, safe to say that is not your problem. Look at everything under the cover for corrosion loose wires, etc. Next I would reference the factory shop manual for troubleshooting. If you dont have one ,you will have to decide if it is worth it to get one (ability and willingness to work on your own motor). Last resort is take it to a shop and break out a boat buck.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Boat Buck, new one for me
To funny
Bob...

Break
Out
Another
Thousand

cohosalmon · « **Reply #44 on:** September 07, 2017, 03:11:10 PM »

I had a battery issue once as well and it turned out the rectifier of the F100 alternator was shot and therefore battery not getting charged by main motor. Just check if voltage during main motor operation is 14V+. If not it's likely your rectifier as well. They do burn out from time to time my mechanic told me.

News:

Author Topic: Run Time? (Read 3002 times)