Author Topic: Need some electrical help!  (Read 627 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wedocq

Need some electrical help!
« on: May 21, 2017, 09:58:53 AM »
A few years back, with the help of the forum and a lot of help from Tony (Ulua), I installed the "add a battery" system from Blue Sea. Its the ACR with a battery switch that has OFF, Batt 1, and COMBINE. Because of the extensive help I received, I am confident that the system was installed correctly. So, I am going to jump right into the symptoms (which are very strange and puzzling!) and let you all throw out some theories for me to start testing.  :hoboy:

My Setup.
Dual deep cycle batteries. One for the house, one for starting. I have a fuse panel in the rear that runs the downriggers, wash down pump, and bait tank pump. I have a second fuse panel up front that runs everything else.

Symptoms.
When I put the switch on Battery 1, the motor would not turn over. I had to turn it to COMBINE. It would start on COMBINE, but if I moved it back to BATT 1, the motor would die.  I tested the battery, and it was fine. I looked at the 75 amp MRBF (Marine Rated Battery Fuse) on top, and it's BLOWN! In my mind, to blow a 75 amp battery fuse, you either have to have catastrophic failure somewhere, OR that battery terminal accidently got grounded somehow.  :shrug9:

So anyway, I decided to do a quick test (I am sure this was a perfectly safe thing to do :facepalm:). I put the battery switch to BATT 1. I removed the MRBF, and I touched it briefly to the POSITIVE terminal to see if I was going to get any spark. Nothing. I then fully connected it to the positive terminal (minus the blown MRBF) and checked for power to boat. NOTHING.

So now I am thinking it's the Blue Sea battery switch.

So what do you think happened? Did a battery terminal somehow get grounded (by a careless tool or something) and fry the MRBF and battery switch all in one shot? Did the battery switch go bad and fry the MRBF? Is there maybe another culprit that I am missing? Thanks for any input you have!

-Shawn 


2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline dbhazjack

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2017, 10:35:35 AM »
Hmmm, could be so many things. Switch, Engine onboard circuits, ACR, battery, ignition, etc.

Since the biggest recent change has been the new outboard, I would think it wise to go over everything electrically involved in that install.

The starting circuit should not be protected with a MRBF. Since you are drawing several times 75 amps every time you start the motor.  The MRBF's should just be protecting the ACR if I'm not mistaken.

Good luck, keep us posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline dbhazjack

Need some electrical help!
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2017, 10:39:11 AM »
Also, you could D/C the ACR and switch, and wire the motor directly to your starting battery. If that works, add back the ACR. If that works add back the switch. So basically isolate and test each component. Hope that makes sense. Others will say it better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2017, 10:45:15 AM »
Thanks! I think I am going to pull the battery switch out and check the continuity when in "batt 1" and work out from there.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Diablo

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2017, 11:28:50 AM »
We had a similar problem is Neah Bay with the big boat motors. Scary, for a time we did not have a motor to get home on.
Here is what's I think happened. Your start battery voltage was low which will cause the starter to draw more current. That extra current caused the start battery fuse to blow. I wouldn't stop using that fuse but have spares on board and maybe move up to a little larger fuse for your bigger motor.
Now why wasn't the start battery charged? If the only way you can check your battery voltage is with a spark test, maybe you should invest in a multimeter.
I don't know of a good reason to combine the battery's. If one battery is dead why would you want to attach it to your good battery and risk discharging it? A better battery switch would be; off, batt 1, batt 2, combine.
Your charging connections from you main motor should charge your start battery first then the ACR should close and chlarge your house battery. As for your home charging system a onboard dual battery charger would be best.
Have I spent enough of your money?  :biggrin:
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2017, 12:38:12 PM »

Now why wasn't the start battery charged?


The battery was charged. I was suspecting some type of catastrophic failure caused the fuse to blow. If I was correct, when I touched the cable directly to the positive without the MRBF, I figured I might have gotten some sparks.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2017, 12:40:10 PM »
A better battery switch would be; off, batt 1, batt 2, combine.

I dunno. :shrug9: This is what was recommended to me. I have always left it on "Batt 1", and both batteries would stay charged by the ACR.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline dbhazjack

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 12:47:11 PM »
Shawn, according to the attached Blue Sea ACR wiring diagram a blown MRBF should not affect starting circuit. It only protects the ACR. Not sure about your wiring scheme, but if the MRBF at 75amps is in the starting circuit it will blow. If not you will have to determine why it blew? Something is not right.
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2017, 12:59:14 PM »
I filed away my diagram for safe keeping. Trust me, it's so safe, no one is going to find it...ugh  :facepalm: But I can say with certainty, we followed the recommended way to do it, and I posted it on here for comment before doing it. I need to find that, and verify I didn't change anything when I installed the new motor.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline dbhazjack

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2017, 01:33:49 PM »
I think this is it. Unfortunately the links to your diagrams are broken :doh:
http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=6556.0
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline Hydroman

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2017, 01:51:38 PM »
Shawn,
What load is services by the 75 amp fuse?

Jim

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 01:56:58 PM »
Ok, I found this:


At Rick's suggesting, I went down from 100 amp to 75. Where is says in small letters coming from the safety hub 6a, 8a etc, that should say 6 awg.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 02:00:11 PM by wedocq »
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline dbhazjack

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 02:06:22 PM »
Looks good to me. Are you using an old Perko switch or one on the dual circuit Blue Sea switches that take advantage of the ACR?
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 02:37:55 PM »
 :yeahthat: The Blue Sea switch. I am in the process of tearing down some things and testing. Its so beautiful right now. I should be halibut fishing! safety first...
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Hydroman

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 03:27:02 PM »
Shawn,

Shorting out either battery would definitely blow the fuse.  Can't imagined a failure in the ACR.

Jim

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 03:30:15 PM »
Ok, the battery cables to the new motor were correct. What's confusing me is the motor would run in the "combined", but not in the "on" position.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Hydroman

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2017, 03:58:05 PM »
I would go  thru the wiring with a fine tooth comb on the battery circuit that the engine won't run on.

Are your lug prompted or soldered? You could have a high resistance at one of the connections.
Jim

Offline Diablo

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2017, 05:08:50 PM »

Now why wasn't the start battery charged?


The battery was charged. I was suspecting some type of catastrophic failure caused the fuse to blow. If I was correct, when I touched the cable directly to the positive without the MRBF, I figured I might have gotten some sparks.

Getting a battery to spark is not an indication you have sufficient voltage for normal start current. As voltage goes down, current goes up.
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline Diablo

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2017, 05:21:32 PM »
Ok, the battery cables to the new motor were correct. What's confusing me is the motor would run in the "combined", but not in the "on" position.

With the switch in the on position house loads are connected to the house battery and the motor starter would be connected the start battery. The motor would not start off the start battery because the fuse was blown. The motor would start with the battery's combined. When you combined the battery's, with the blown fuse on the start battery, all you did is use the house battery alone with good voltage to start the motor.

In your drawing you have a 100amp MRBF. You said above you blew a 75amp fuse. Should you have used a different fuse?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 05:26:31 PM by Diablo »
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2017, 05:45:21 PM »
I am suspecting the Blue Sea switch. I am getting resistance between the terminals on the back of the switch when it is in the "ON" position. I am getting no resistance when it is in the "COMBINE" position. Which coincidently coincides with when the motor would run, and when it wouldn't.

My question is, how much resistance is too much resistance? I had it on the lowest setting and it was giving me anywhere from 175 down to 30 (ohms?). As soon as I switched it to combine, ZERO reading.
-Shawn   
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2017, 06:01:41 PM »

Getting a battery to spark is not an indication you have sufficient voltage for normal start current. As voltage goes down, current goes up.

Yes, I understand that. This was a quick redneck field test to see if I had major issues going on. 
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline Diablo

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2017, 06:13:04 PM »
I am suspecting the Blue Sea switch. I am getting resistance between the terminals on the back of the switch when it is in the "ON" position. I am getting no resistance when it is in the "COMBINE" position. Which coincidently coincides with when the motor would run, and when it wouldn't.

My question is, how much resistance is too much resistance? I had it on the lowest setting and it was giving me anywhere from 175 down to 30 (ohms?). As soon as I switched it to combine, ZERO reading.
-Shawn

I hope you weren't reading resistance with voltage, batteries connected. You check resistance on a dead circuit. You could damage your meter on live circuits.. If you did not measured on a dead circuit the readings are meaningless.
It hard to say what resistance would be normal. Depends on what is "on" and that could very. No resistance would be a problem, that would indicate a dead short. But I don't know exactly what you are measuring.

The switch that dbhazjack posted is what I have and I believe what you have.

Did you try to start the motor and the starter tried to start it but didn't, then it wouldn't even engage the starter on the next attempt?
'98 19SR  '15 E Tec 115, '10 Honda 8
'88 17SR  '90 Johnson 90, Honda 8, SOLD

Offline Hydroman

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2017, 06:58:14 PM »
Shawn

An resistance at all across the contacts signs of a bad contact.  Your ohm meter show read the same across the contacts as the meter reads with the leads connected to one another.

If you you have any resistance at all, as the current starts to flow you will start getting a voltage drop across the contacts.

Jim

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2017, 09:32:02 PM »
I am suspecting the Blue Sea switch. I am getting resistance between the terminals on the back of the switch when it is in the "ON" position. I am getting no resistance when it is in the "COMBINE" position. Which coincidently coincides with when the motor would run, and when it wouldn't.

My question is, how much resistance is too much resistance? I had it on the lowest setting and it was giving me anywhere from 175 down to 30 (ohms?). As soon as I switched it to combine, ZERO reading.
-Shawn

I hope you weren't reading resistance with voltage, batteries connected. You check resistance on a dead circuit.

Did you try to start the motor and the starter tried to start it but didn't, then it wouldn't even engage the starter on the next attempt?

I completely pulled the battery switch from the boat, so no voltage. The switch can go to "ON" and "COMBINE". In "ON", I was getting nothing, nada, zilch. No power to anything. When I put the switch to "COMBINE", everything worked like it should.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline DevMah

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 09:57:29 PM »
Hmmm, could be so many things. Switch, Engine onboard circuits, ACR, battery, ignition, etc.

Since the biggest recent change has been the new outboard, I would think it wise to go over everything electrically involved in that install.

The starting circuit should not be protected with a MRBF. Since you are drawing several times 75 amps every time you start the motor.  The MRBF's should just be protecting the ACR if I'm not mistaken.

Good luck, keep us posted.

 I will correct you on this my starting system is protected with two MRBF 100A fuse from both batteries going to the engine. A second Set of MRBF are protecting my ACR.
IMO
I have not seen many bad blue sea battery switches....

How did you check you battery #1 ? Do you have a battery load test rheostat? Checking the open circuit voltage gives you no indication that a battery is good... it has to be load tested.

I think that your #1 battery is dead...possibly shorted out... or bad connections...that would explain why you engine shuts off when you switch back to it from the combine position to batt 1.

The ACR fuse probably blew when your ACR tried to combine or you some how created a short to B-.
Low voltage will cause higher current.
It's possible that the ACR was combined while you cranked over engine while in position 1 of your switch and the start current was going through th ACR circuit. This is why ACR is equipped with a start disconnect option.

Easy test swap your batteries and see if the same thing occurs.
Dev

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/quote]
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 10:15:43 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline DevMah

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2017, 10:05:44 PM »
I am suspecting the Blue Sea switch. I am getting resistance between the terminals on the back of the switch when it is in the "ON" position. I am getting no resistance when it is in the "COMBINE" position. Which coincidently coincides with when the motor would run, and when it wouldn't.

My question is, how much resistance is too much resistance? I had it on the lowest setting and it was giving me anywhere from 175 down to 30 (ohms?). As soon as I switched it to combine, ZERO reading.
-Shawn

I hope you weren't reading resistance with voltage, batteries connected. You check resistance on a dead circuit.

Did you try to start the motor and the starter tried to start it but didn't, then it wouldn't even engage the starter on the next attempt?

I completely pulled the battery switch from the boat, so no voltage. The switch can go to "ON" and "COMBINE". In "ON", I was getting nothing, nada, zilch. No power to anything. When I put the switch to "COMBINE", everything worked like it should.
-Shawn

Confused...
If you pulled the battery switch out then you would not have voltage either way.

If it is still out do a resistance check from common to battery 1 pole and common to battery 2 pole should be almost no resistance.

Dev
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2017, 10:42:59 PM »
Sorry, I was trying to answer his 2 questions at once.

1) While the switch was still in the boat, I was getting no power when I turned it to "ON". Everything worked fine when I turned it to "COMBINE". Both battery voltages checked out ok.

2) So I removed the battery switch. There are 4 poles on the back, 2 for each battery. When the switch was in the "ON" position, I was showing resistance between the poles for both battery banks. When I put the switch to "COMBINE", I showed no resistance.

Sorry, I know I can be confusing when trying to explain my electrical issues... :doh:

-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline DevMah

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2017, 11:11:04 PM »
Sorry, I was trying to answer his 2 questions at once.

1) While the switch was still in the boat, I was getting no power when I turned it to "ON". Everything worked fine when I turned it to "COMBINE". Both battery voltages checked out ok.

2) So I removed the battery switch. There are 4 poles on the back, 2 for each battery. When the switch was in the "ON" position, I was showing resistance between the poles for both battery banks. When I put the switch to "COMBINE", I showed no resistance.

Sorry, I know I can be confusing when trying to explain my electrical issues... :doh:

-Shawn

This sounds correct as I believe you have the dual system plus switch

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5511e/e-Series_Dual_Circuit_Plus_Battery_Switch

If you go to this page drop down to the drawing put your mouse over the tab switch on and then switch combine... the drawing will toggle to show you the difference.


Off will open all 4 poles from each other (both #1 poles and both #2 poles) (infinite resistance between poles)

On will connect both #1 poles together  and connect both # 2 poles together, however 1 and 2 are isolated from each other   ( battery 1 is running the engine and #2 is running the accessories) (you will have close to zero ohms across poles 1 and poles 2 but infinite resistance if measured  across #1 pole to # 2)

You are checking the battery voltages this tells you nothing about the battery under load, please have the battery load tested. In my experience I have seen many batteries with good voltage but when load tested they fail as they are unable to substation the voltage under a load.

For a quick check swap battery 1 with 2.... see what happens

IMO
I think you have either bad connections on battery 1 (primary cranking) or a bad battery itself. I doubt the switch.

Usually poles #1 are used for the primary cranking but I have see this this switch wired as poles #2 as primary cranking... just depends who wired it up.

Dev

 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 11:29:06 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2017, 11:28:19 PM »
Dev,
So I tested the switch a couple of dozen times. Each time I would move the switch back and forth between positions before retesting it. I was getting varying degrees of resistance each time when measuring both #1 poles and #2 poles. (measuring 1 to 1, and 2 to 2). But, when I moved the switch to COMBINE, the multimeter would read very little resistance between the #1 poles, and the #2 poles. (Measuring 1 to 1, and 2 to 2). This is perfectly normal?  Obviously I am a total novice so don't laugh at me.  :biggrin:

So that's what happened when I measured resistance. When I set it to continuity, a tone is audible when continuity is present. Measuring it exactly how I did with resistance, I would not hear a tone when measuring from 1 to 1, and 2 to 2 when the switch was put to "ON". I would hear the tone when the switch was put to COMBINE.

-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline DevMah

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2017, 11:38:03 PM »
Thanks Shaun
If that is the case then you have a bad switch sounds like carbon build up inside.... I have not encountered many failed ones... the one's I have seen had the battery polarity reversed between 1 and 2 causing a dead short in the switch. (you may have possibly accidentally shorted out the switch at some time...that would lead to why your ACR fuse was blown...)

The resistance should be relatively the same across poles when connected together as close to zero ohms.

Dev.

 
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2017, 04:18:13 PM »
Ok thanks. Sorry for some of the confusing posts/answers.  :biggrin: I am going to still have both batteries load tested. They were both new last summer, but you never know! I am going to order new MRBFs, a new Blue Sea battery switch, and clean up all the connections and see what happens.
-Shawn
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline dbhazjack

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2017, 04:31:23 PM »
Sounds like you're on a good track Shawn. Hope that solves it. Sure would be good to determine what blew that fuse. Is it possible to open up the old switch and see if it is damaged?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 10:26:09 PM »
Good question! I will take a look. I am sure once I open it though, it will never quite seal back up the same.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Offline BigMac

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2017, 07:43:06 AM »
Not trying to hijack the thread, but Wedo mentioned he uses a deep cycle battery as a starting battery.  When you smart electronics guys get Wedo's problem fixed, would you please opine on the following:  My main motor is a Suzy 200.  I was told from the get go that I should NOT use a deep cycle as the starting battery but use one specifically for starting that is rated at 1,000 CCA.  This I have done, but this battery runs a bit more than the deep cycle.  Am I wasting money?
Thanks in advance.
(Dave) 

Online BruceL2_Fish

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2017, 09:22:51 AM »
I also run a starting battery and a deep cycle for the house battery.  My starting battery is dedicated to that one function.   
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline dbhazjack

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2017, 09:45:39 AM »
I started with a single marine starting battery when the boat was new from Sportcraft. I added a marine deep cycle house battery with the Blue Sea "add a battery" kit which included an ACR.

After my recent electrical issues one thing that was recommended by a local marine electrical specialist is to not have dissimilar batteries. Better to have two marine combination starting/deep cycle. Same type and size.

Would also be nice to not have so many dissimilar opinions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 17' Sea Chaser, 90 hp Honda, 8 hp Honda Kicker.

Offline wedocq

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2017, 10:41:37 AM »
I was told the same Dave. I have 2 identical deep cycle/ starting batteries that are group 27, and have the CCA rating to start my motor.
2002 21' Arima Sea Ranger HT  Suzuki DF175 4-stroke.
WEDOCQ= WE DO SEKIU! It pays homage to my Uncle Jay who died of cancer.

Online BruceL2_Fish

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2017, 10:48:25 AM »
Interesting, guess I will look into this when I replace my batteries this year.  Shawn, To bad you are having this issue but I sure learn a lot following these electrical topics on the forum.   Might be worth doing the load test just to eliminate the question.   
2012 Sea Ranger 19 (M. LaDeane)
Suzuki 115 Four Stroke
Honda 9.9 Kicker

Offline DevMah

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2017, 05:40:59 PM »
 Please refer to this post on batteries.

http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=11745.msg138849#msg138849
 
IMO
Dave to answer your question I doubt that you draw more than 250A.... my 150 Yammy clamp tested draw was about 130A... you can use a deep cycle but read my post #12 for some guidelines.

Yes it is preferred to have identical batteries... however I have used  a dual and deep cycle battery's on my boats with no issue utilizing automatic dual output chargers and ACR'S.

The fear of having two different batteries on one charge source is that one battery could get damaged by manual overcharging.....two wet cell batteries when paralleld act as 1 battery. The starting battery will charge faster than a deep cycle (assuming both were fully discharged).

Staring batteries can be charged quickly where deep cycle batteries like to be charged slower.

Having 2 deep cycles is good if you have heavy accessories and a low charge output from your engine.
Most go the route of a starting and deep cycle combo just due to lower cost.

 :twocents:

Dev
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 11:26:57 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Online Markshoreline

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2017, 09:56:07 PM »
With an Blue Sea ACR once the smaller starting battery is fully charged shouldn't the charging then be devoted to the house battery, regardless of the size?  I have thought that was the whole purpose of the ACR.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9

Offline BigMac

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2017, 10:52:06 PM »
Thanks for the input Dev.
(Dave)

Offline DevMah

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2017, 10:57:30 PM »
Mark
From Blue Seas website.
Question
Will the ACR manage my the charge of my individual battery banks.

Answer
An ACR does not direct the charge to the battery that “needs it the most” or has the lowest terminal voltage. If there is a charge present on either battery, indicated by a high enough voltage, the ACR will combine the batteries.


How does an ACR work? (Automatic Charge Relay)

An ACR senses when the voltage of either of the batteries rises to a level indicating that a charge source is active (13.0V for 2 minutes). The ACR′s contacts then connect and the ACR applies the charge to both batteries. If the voltage on both of the batteries subsequently drops to 12.75V for 30 seconds, the ACR will disconnect, isolating the batteries.

Resource
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1366

To manage your battery charge you will  need a solid state battery combiner.

Digital Duo Charge: DDC-12/24
Multi Bank Charging

    The DDC is a Solid-State Battery Combiner
    Control Voltage and Current between House and Start Batteries
    Eliminates the Need for an Isolator, Relay or Manually Operated Battery Switch
    Used in Concert with Max Charge or ARS-5 Regulators
    Can also be Employed without a Balmar Regulator
    Works in Both 12V and 24V Applications
    House and Start Batteries can be different technologies
    Start Battery Temperature Sensing Available with the MC-TS-B Sensor Cable

http://www.balmar.net/?page_id=15272




The ACR will combine if either battery voltage is above 13.0 v (2 mins) and the battery combiner charges your deep cycle first (once it reached 13.2V) then manages the voltage and current going to the starting battery.

Please keep in mind I have a dual and deep cycle and have had no issues using a ACR and automatic dual output charger.. as most outboards motors don't have high alt outputs, this is more for larger vessels that have massive DC systems

Hope this answers your question.

Please excuse me for the use of the Bold...IMO just makes it easier to understand if you are glancing over quickly.

Dev

« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 05:29:47 PM by DevMah »
2015 21' Sea Ranger
2015 Yamaha F150
2013 Mercury 9.9 Bigfoot 4 blade
2012 Lund 1650SS  w 2012 60HP Mercury-Sold

Online Markshoreline

Re: Need some electrical help!
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 10:35:28 AM »
Thanks for the explanation!  Makes it a little more clear.
2002 Sea Ranger HT 21, Yamaha 150, Yamaha 9.9