As much as I love driving my little Tundra, I'm starting to shop around for it's replacement.  It tows my little 17' like a champ, but my wife and I would like to add a slide-in camper and it just doesn't have the weight capacity to handle one and still tow safely.  Plus, an eventual upgrade to a 21' or 22' Arima is probably going to require a larger truck.  :biggrin:

Thinking of going with a used 3/4 ton diesel, if we can find one at a reasonable price.  Diesels in Portland, OR these days are ridiculous.  Particularly the trucks we are most interested in (the 2001-2006 Duramax diesels from GM and the 1999-2003 7.3 Fords).  Considering making a trip up to Seattle... does anyone have a truck dealer up there they would recommend?

Steve, I got my '09 end of last year with 0 miles and more crap then I need for $30K.  It's 2 batterys, etc. and built for tow and work,
so don't stop looking PDX. Sticker on it was $48K. I keep my vehicles 10-15 years minimum so I've just bought my last truck.

Woody

Great topic!  I am also thinking on moving up to a 21 or 22. I like the Fords myself and they are not Government owned! 

Is there a huge difference between a F150 to a F250? Why Diesel?

My son is selling his 6.5 factory Turbocharged Detroit Diesel. It has after market dual thermostat manifold and after market high output water pump, fan blade and radiator. Chevy used this motor with mecanical fuel injection for only one year. (beter than Duramax)

One ton without dually.

This was my truck which I used to pull my Skipjack (6500#). And my 31' fifth wheel.

Awsome truck, and cheap for what it is.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-3500-Pickup-Truck-6-5-liter-turbo-diesel-RARE-/110733479318?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19c83acd96#ht_500wt_948

Woody, wanna trade for a slighty used Tundra?  :biggrin:

SeattleFlyFisher, couple reasons I am looking at diesels.

One, I just really like diesels!  Broke my heart to sell my old Jeep Liberty with it's little 4 cylinder diesel (got 28 mpg highway, and 19 mpg towing my Arima, but it just wasn't safe towing).  My wife's daily driver is a VW Jetta (gets 47-48 mpg on the highway).  I like the fuel economy of the diesels, and the ability to run a bio-diesel blend (I run often run B20 from the local Jubitz in our Jetta).  The other factors are towing capacity, weight capacity in the bed, and longevity. 

Nice looking truck, Croaker.  I'd like to stick w/ something a little newer for the safety stuff (anti-lock brakes and airbags).

3 wt,

Know you are partial to diesels and I like them too, but--they are spendy, and unless you tow a lot of miles, it may not pencil out compared to a lesser priced gas or flex rig.

Have to tell you how impressed I am with our 2009 4WD Ford Expedition.  2009 and thereafter Ford beefed up the towing capacity and other good stuff so the rated towing capacity now is 9 K.  It tows the Maddy A very well at 55-60 mph.  Lots of power, quite stable (It would be even more stable if I had 8 ply tires on the trailer.), and easy to drive.  15-16 mpg city, 19-20 country, and 11.5 towing the 22 SL.

Your wife will like the comfort, space, and good looks, particularly the Eddie Bauer model.

If the diesel doesn't work out, and you have any interest, give me a call. 

Dave

I am kind of tempted by the new Ford F150 "Ecoboost".  Very diesel-like torque curve, good gas mileage.  They make a 4 door w/ a 6 and 1/2 foot bed that would make a nice tow rig.  I am just a little leery of buying a truck with all new technology in the engine in its first year of production  :whistle:

Dave, does your rig have the 5.4 V8 in it?

3wt,
I looked at those as well. I don't think they are meant for campers to be put on them. Plus, the gas mileage goes WAY down when towing. You only get the benefit of good mileage when empty. I like your 7.3 liter Powerstroke diesel idea. The 7.3 is about as bullet proof engine as I have ever seen, plus the fuel mileage is good empty or towing. The UPS trucks we have with that engine go 300-400k before replacement. (And we drive them hard :biggrin:) My 95 F250 Diesel PS has 210k and going strong. Back when I put my 9.5' camper on it and towed my boat, I still got 13-15 mpg! My motorhome gets 6...
-Shawn

I have a 2008 Chevrolet 1500 w 5.3 gas it is the extended cab with 8' bed. I have capri camper slide in but I bolted mine in it stays there. My camper weighs about 1100 lbs if you believe the manufacturer I guess its close to that. I have pulled a 19 sea ranger to Mexico and Seattle last year no problem. Even pulled my 22 Sea Legend home from Delaware recently. I had a 2001 Dodge 1500 prior and it is like night and day the manufacturers are really beefing these half ton trucks up. My Dodge I put helper springs on the rear and also rear shocks with springs and that thing still wallowed like a pig. I dropped the camper on the new Chevy and I have not added a spring or anything to help. It handles the camper and boat nicely. I got a great deal on this truck and it has a 3.42 rear end and only a four speed automatic. Gosh if you get a v-8 or an eco boost v-6 with a 6 speed automatic and say a 3.73 rear you definitely don't need a diesel. Caution watch out what you get for a camper as mine is light and built for the rodeo and bass fishing circuits. Most campers weigh twice what mine weighs. All I have are two beds a shower and a/c and heat. Oh little tv too. Check em out www.capricamper.com Or check mine out when come out your way next month.

Beancounter,
Those are way cool! I never knew that such lightweight campers existed. 3wt, he is right, my camper was well over 3k pounds. A 3/4 ton was the absolute min. Plus, finding a used one is a crapshoot because it's so hard to find one that hasnt leaked for a reasonable price. Those brand new Capri's are priced less than many campers that are 10-15 years old.
-Shawn

The diesel vs gas decision boils down to more than just fuel economy, fuel cost, and initial cost.  The miles you drive, and the amount of towing/hauling you do are BIG factors.

I'm on my 3rd Chevy 2500HD with DuraMax/Allison combo.  These are nothing-short of AWESOME trucks to drive.  They haul a load like NOBODY'S business, get over 20MPG's on the highway (empty), and are the most-comfortable trucks I've EVER riden-in.  (One of my buddies has a Dodge with a bleecher-like hard-as-a-rock bucket seats, and another friend has a Ford King Ranch, which is nice but not as nice as my Chebby.

These trucks have been "company cars."  We switch from driving gas Suburbans to diesel crew cabs because the cost the same, but we can put 2x the miles on a diesel and get the same trade value.  We drive around 35,000 miles per year.  We don't haul real heavy loads, but we do haul.  Plus, we feel there's a big safety factor to driving the big/heavy truck and spending as much time as we do on the road.  My dad was one-time rear-ended by a semi-truck traveling at 35 to 40 MPH, and DROVE his truck home.  Try that in a Toyota!

If you're looking-at Chevy's, the ones to get are the '06 or '07 "Classic" models, with the "LBZ" generation of the Duramax.  They can run a bio blend.  The 2007.5 thru 2010 models can not burn ANY bio.  The 2011's can though.

I loved my diesels. You never need to do much to keep them running. They don't generate as much heat as gas engines. They run smoother and quieter at freeway speed. The engines last forever. My 1-ton had HUGE brakes, which is why I wanted a 1-ton.

Steve - on the way to Seattle stop at the Titus-Will Ford in Tacoma. They are almost on I5. I pull my boat with the relatively new Tundra you saw in the spring and have been happy with it except the gas mileage could be better. Thinking about putting a camper on it, so lots of good info here. My son-in-law is pulling his work trailer with Ford 250 diesel and is happy with it. His mileage is not super good either, but his trailer weighs more than my boat plus a possible camper together. PM me if you want me to do some truck shopping for you to narrow down the field.

Thanks for the offer, Raimo.  I might take you up on it.  On the diesel side, what I'd really love is a 2004.5-2006 Chevy/GMC w/ the 2nd generation Duramax engine.  In doing some research, it seems like the 1st generation can develop injector problems that are big $$ to fix.  Very rare in Portland, and the ones that are for sale are $$$$$ and they seem to only be $$$$ in Seattle!

I talked to my local Ford dealer's sales manager for a bit last night about the Ecoboost.  Was pleasantly surprised when he both a) gave me the lowdown on the suspension on them (designed mainly for comfort unless you get the max tow package, and he was dubious of running a camper in one and still towing a 5000# + boat), and b) he gave me straight up info on pricing.  We were talking about a camper in the 2000-2500 pound range though, not an ultralight.  

That Capri camper looks pretty interesting.  I have been thinking about buying a used pop-up camper, to keep the center of gravity low when towing, and for the reduced wind drag/better mpg.  The good ones are not cheap, though.

I bought my camper from Panther in Vancouver. My small camper weight is 600lbs. Check them out at http://www.panthercampers.com/Home_Page.php

SFF,
Those look cool too! I can't believe how light they can make these things.
-Shawn

Steve,

My Expedition engine is a Triton, 5.4L., 3 V.  Apparently there are 2-5.4 engines and this is the souped up one.

Full disclosure--trailered back to Vancouver from Astoria last eve and was shocked to only get 8.5 mpg. The last trip home from Astoria was 11.5 as I had mentioned earlier.  I had more fuel and a lot of "junk" in the boat from camping the last few days this trip, so that might explain it.  It sure seemed to pull harder, but the rig handled it well.  Those hills and curves east of Astoria are killers.  The mileage improved further east and on I-5 (at 60 mph) but never could overcome those first 40 miles.

Forgot to mention, the Expedition has seating for 8 adult passengers and with the seats folded down, has a big cargo area.

You guys are killing me with all the diesel talk.

Dave

You know what???  I got caught-up in the gas vs diesel part of this conversation, and didn't really answer the the OP's question.

Reputable dealers?  I've done business with the following, and enjoyed every experience, however as-always your results may vary.
* Good Chevrolet in Renton
* Burien Chevrolet/Toyota
* Bowen Scarff Ford (do not confuse with Scarff Ford)
* JET Chevrolet in Federal Way

I've been involved with the purchase of three vehicles from Baydo Chevrolet in McKenna, WA in the past 12 months.  Two went perfectly well, the third a little sideways.  I'm not likely to go back.

I've had good luck with Jet in Federal Way.   My last truck a 3500HD Duramax was purchased at Grey Chevrolet in Port Orchard.  The only reason I purchased it from them was because they were the only dealer in the area that had the configuration I wanted.  Actually I don't think I'll go back as the salesman I had was clueless.  Back to Jet we have always used them for service and haven't had any issues with them.  They seem to go out of their way to make sure you are happy.  The other day my wife took the truck in for have a door latch fixed and service.  They fixed the door latch but forgot the service when they called her to tell her it was finished.  Oops...because of that mistake the whole thing, service and all was no charge.  We will keep using Jet.

I narrowly missed a deal on an 07' Duramax from Jet... grrrr...

Dodged a bullet on another one, an 01' that was cheap and looked to be in beautiful shape.  Had maintenance records in the glove box, so I decided to call the mechanic and ask him about it.  Never good when the mechanic says run the other direction.

Re: a 1/2 ton vs. the 3/4 ton diesel... doing a little more research, the 3/4 Duramax of the vintage I am looking at are rated for a payload of 3000#.  I could order one of the new F150's, either w/ the Ecoboost or the 5.0 V8, with their max tow/payload package and a payload of 2600# (and have a new truck with a warranty).  Tempting.

Does anyone know the tongue weight of an Arima 22 with a tandem axle trailer?  I'm guessing around 300-400#.  Wondering if one of those F150's could handle a 1000-1500# camper, plus towing a large Arima.

3Wt I would suggest a 3/4 ton pick up for what you want to do. Look at it this way... a F150 or 1/2 ton pick up is suppose to have a hauling capacity of 1/2 ton and if you put a 1000 to 1500 pound camper inside the box... you have met the hauling capacity. The springs or suspension system will then be somewhat near their limits and then you want to add more with the tongue weight of the boat trailer. Talk about maxing out your vehicle and increasing maintenance/repair cost. Go with a 3/4 ton unit.

Kimbrey (my uncle) weighed his SL22 tongue weight, and it was in the 800-lb range, iirc.  My 20-ft Trophy is about 400.

If you want to haul a camper and tow a boat, you'd be much-better served with a 2500 series GM or F350 series Ford with an 8-ft bed.  Larger payload capacities, larger brakes, stronger transmissions, etc.  I towed my Trophy 100's of miles with a K1500 Chevy, and thought it did well.  Towing it now with a K2500HD, I notice a HUGE improvement in stability, braking distance, etc.

3wt,

The tongue weight on the trailer loaded with my 22 SL HT is about 480#.  This is with the boat moderately loaded, no water in the forward fresh water tank, and about 30-40 gallons of fuel.  I try to put extra equipment, personal gear, etc. in the tow vehicle (Expedition) as my trailer is carrying close to the maximum rated GVW.

It seems to be well balanced and trailers well.

(Dave)

Actually I think Matt (Peddler) remembered incorrectly on my tongue weight for the SL.  It was 575 to 580.  I just got home from Alaska yesterday morning and plan to run down to Oly to pick up my boat tomorrow.  I'll double check the tongue weight again when I get home with my scale.  By the way for anyone in the area (NE Tacoma) I have a scale made for this if anyone is interested.  Put it on a block with the trailer level and then lower the tongue onto the scale.  Read the dial.

Regarding campers.  I assume after doing a lot research that a lot of the campers you see going down the freeway are actually too much weight for the truck if you consider the legal ratings on the truck.  Or at least campers that will make the wife happy.  I have a Chevy Duramax 3500HD and feel I'm right up to the limits or beyond legally with my Eagle Cap 950.  The truck handles the camper fine even in a stiff wind so I think there is a lot of buffer or safety margin built into the ratings.  Last year I towed my 17' Trophy out to Sekiu with the camper on the truck.  Didn't seem to be a problem but I was sure glad I had added brakes to the boat.  I was alone and it was a bitch launching and hauling as you can't see the boat or trailer in the mirrors.  I do have airbags, Torklift Stable Loads heavy duty wheels (Rickson) & tires.  The tires make the ride more harsh but I think with the stiffer sidewall it takes out some sway.

Towing just the straight boat with that tongue weight isn't any problem for my truck but I'm sure once the camper is loaded.........thank goodness for trailer brakes.

Now that I have done a bit more research, what I am most interested in are the Duramaxes of the 05-06-07 vintage, for that 6 speed Allison.  Of course, apparently so is everyone else shopping for a used diesel in the Northwest.  Holy crap those trucks are expensive!   

As far as campers, I think I'd really be most comfortable towing with a pop-up, as I would only be using it May-September or so and I like the idea of keeping the center of gravity low.  My wife and I have backpacked and whitewater rafted all over the Northwest, so our camping standards are pretty spartan.  Just getting tired of setting up a tent in the rain at night! 

Given the prices we've been finding on these things, we are not  in a big hurry.  May wait till spring and see if they are going any cheaper after a few months of winter diesel prices!