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Arima Forum => Arima Life => Topic started by: Docmi on February 06, 2018, 05:18:55 PM

Title: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Docmi on February 06, 2018, 05:18:55 PM
I have a deposit on a 17 foot Sea Chaser, this is the largest size that will fit in my garage, so a 19 foot is not an option.  I would like some info on power.  I decided to go with 115 hp for several reasons.  Although the boat will be used predominantly for fishing, there will also be tubing and wakeboards.  I will likely have 3-4 adults in the boat at times.  I am planning to keep the boat for a very long time, and do not want to face a situation where I wish I had more power.  I understand the fuel economy may suffer a bit, but I also think that a more powerful engine not working as hard can have can have economy not far off a less powerful engine working harder. My power options are a 115 Honda or Yamaha only.  I am getting a much better deal on the Honda.  The only disadvantage of the Honda that I see is that it is built on a 2.4L block from the Honda 115/150/175 family and Yamaha is built on a 1.8L block from the 75/90/115 family, thus according to the specs the Honda is about 100 lbs heavier.  I would think that the larger displacement would give me better torque and negate the extra weight.  Another way of thinking about it is the transom weight of a Yamaha 75/90/115 + a kicker is the same as 115 Honda without the kicker.  And I am not getting a kicker.  Any thoughts on the subject? Thank you very much for any advice.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 06, 2018, 05:35:37 PM
What are the torque differences between the two? I would tend to lean towards the lighter Yamaha motor. 100 pounds is quite a bit lighter for the same horsepower. Also 100 pounds lighter may negate the difference in torque between the two :twocents:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 06, 2018, 05:40:42 PM
Add a 4-blade prop and trim tabs and that should be a sweet setup
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Docmi on February 06, 2018, 05:55:59 PM
I don't know the torque numbers as the are not published.  In the automotive world 2.4L and 1.8L engines have a significant difference in torque.  I would presume the Honda produces more torque at lower RPM.  Also, according to the specs, the full throttle range for Honda is 4500-6000 RPM and Yamaha is 5300-6300 RPM, looking like Yamaha needs to be revved more for similar power.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 06, 2018, 05:59:31 PM
475 pound Honda just seems too heavy to me. Especially with 3-4 adults in the boat. Your transom will sit real low in the water. Most people run a 90 on a 17 but I can see wanting a 115 if it’s light enough. The Yamaha is 375
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 06, 2018, 06:05:17 PM
IMO, you are better off going with a 90. 

Weight is a real issue on 17' hulls... it isn't about having more power to lift the weight out of the hole, it's about the butt-heavy handling of the boat making it want to plow into the chop, and having the motor well frequently submerge in a following sea.  More power doesn't help with those things... moving weight forward can, or going with lighter engines in the first place.   The 17' hulls were designed in the era of 2 strokes, when a 90 hp motor weighed 250#... the conventional wisdom is with modern engines 90 hp is ideal for a 17', 115 for a 19', and 135-150 for a 21'.

The Yamaha 115 is the same block as the 90... the extra HP comes at the top of the RPM range where it really isn't very useful in an Arima.  The Honda 90 will have similar performance.  My personal preference would be the Suzuki 90, which is lighter and geared lower (which lets it turn a bigger prop, which helps improve the Arima handling characteristics).  There is no way I'd put a nearly 500# motor (or even a 400# one) on a 17' Arima.

Spend the $$ you save on nicer electronics, or a kicker.  The 115 will make the boat slightly faster (from 32-34 mph top end to 34-36).   The idea of a bigger engine not working as hard and getting better fuel economy in an Arima doesn't really hold up.  In years of following this forum, the best fuel economy numbers I have ever seen on a 17' Arima were with a 90 hp Suzuki (AK Angler's old set up).
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Docmi on February 06, 2018, 06:24:14 PM
Thanks for the information.  My only options are Yamaha or Honda. I thought about a 90.  I've seen quite a few 17 foot Arimas with 90 hp outboards and kickers.  As I do not plan to get a kicker, so I thought since transom weight of a 115 Honda is the same as a 90 (or 75) Yamaha with a kicker, the boat's handling should be about the same too.  I have not seen posts where there are complaints about the 90 or 75 motor + kicker setups.  Perhaps my logic is wrong, anyone with thoughts and experience on this matter is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: StreamFixer on February 06, 2018, 06:37:33 PM
I have run both a 90 (Honda) and a 115 (Yamaha) on my 17 SC -- similar props.  In my opinion, the 90 outperformed the 115, hands down.  That 115 is just WAY too heavy for a 17 -- splash well constantly partially submerged- pushing more hull below water--- Sweet on my 19, but not so good on the 17.

Torque is important when you are dealing with overcoming friction (resistance).  When it comes to water, the density is a constant...  The weight of the unit being moved, and it's resistance (hull surface/friction) to that movement are the key elements.  For what we are dealing with, in my opinion, worrying about torque is akin to picking the fly poop out of the pepper...  That could explain why Outboard motor specs seldom list torque...

Your $$$ and your Boat so you will do what you want. 

I would heed 3wt's recommendation...

StreamFixer
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: ATGEP on February 06, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
Get the lightest engine you can.  The new honda 90 looks like a sweet motor and the weight difference will be more than you can imagine. On my 21, I usually run my 135 at half throttle (fuel flow) and cruise nicely a 23mph.  The 17 likely need. 50-60 hp to cruise in the mid 20's.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 06, 2018, 06:52:53 PM
The Honda 90 is 359#, and the Yamaha 115 is only 373#. That’s only a 14# difference for 25 more horsepower. The cost would probably be the main concern there. But, no way I would even consider that 475# Honda :twocents:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: wedocq on February 06, 2018, 07:03:25 PM
If you are planning on trolling for salmon, I would strongly recommend the lighter motor, and a kicker. You said you plan on keeping this boat for a very long time, why rack up the hours on the main motor so quickly?
-Shawn
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Marine40 on February 06, 2018, 07:05:28 PM
This site is sounding more like we have bass boats that are flying to each fishing spot :anyone:

You have heard a few comments from Arima owners that have had 115 Yamaha's on 17 Chasers. I will add to that list of 17 Chaser owners with the beautiful 115 Yamaha motor. Do not do it...........I have pictures that will show you how the ass sits in the water.

Good luck with this topic.


Darren
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Marine40 on February 06, 2018, 07:29:45 PM
Also.....I will add to this that the reason I bought a 115hp was I knew I was moving to a bigger boat. I took my 115 from a 17 Chaser, to a 19 Chaser and now to the final boat a 21 Ranger. Arima boats are do not need a lot of power.



Darren
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: polarbill1999 on February 06, 2018, 07:41:28 PM
If you have no plans on getting a kicker I think the 115 Yamaha sounds like a great option.  Hell, if it really is the same weight as the 90 then it doesn't really matter if you do add a kicker. 

 I wouldn't consider the Honda at 100# heavier.



Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: First Cabin on February 06, 2018, 07:53:03 PM
The 90 or 115hp Yamaha is the proper choice.  20 lbs for 25hp more is a good trade if it doesn’t cost too much more.  Once you get the right prop for the application, either motor will work.

These discussions remind me of the motors Mr. Arima had available when he designed the Arima’s.

Sometimes I still miss my 1980s Mercury Tower of Power....six cylinders, less than 300lbs...enough torque to pull a ski team out of the hole...



Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Tj805 on February 06, 2018, 08:58:49 PM
My Yamaha dealer told me a 115 Yamaha is ten pounds lighter than a 90 hp.
Do you honestly think your going to notice 10 more pounds on the rear ?
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Markshoreline on February 06, 2018, 09:21:47 PM
The shorter the boat the more leverage the motor will affect the front/rear weight balance.  A heavy motor will plunge a 17’s butt into the water so you’ll need trim tabs to cope.  I’d go with the Suzy 90 for best overall performance.  Can you get a sea trial anywhere to experience the reality?  These wide boats will get on plane nicely if the stern isn’t too heavy.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 06, 2018, 09:24:19 PM
To be honest I think the “new” boat specs to a “new” buyer are a little misleading. Take my 16 SC for instance. It’s rated max HP is 100. BUT, with today’s 4-stroke motors and their heavy weights there’s no way that’s gonna happen. I realize that these boats were designed around lighter 2-stroke motors, but this is 2018 and pretty much no one is going to buy a new, 2018 Arima and put a new 2-stoke on it. Point being is at this present time the actual max HP ratings on these new boats should be adjusted to reflect that  :twocents:

Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mustang65fbk on February 06, 2018, 09:35:07 PM
A couple things here... I honestly don't think you need a 115hp engine for a 17' Arima that only weighs 1,250lbs.  As others have said, with the design of the Arima you're probably not going to get much more on the top end as opposed to a 90hp engine but it's ultimately your boat so it's your choice.  Also, 20lbs on the back end is going to make very little difference.  I personally would go with a smaller motor like a 75-90hp Honda and then throw a kicker motor on there.  I myself need to get a kicker motor so if/when I brake down I don't have to call vessel assist or use my paddle to try and paddle my boat back in lol.  That being said.... Honda does make a 100hp outboard that might be just what you need in that it's almost halfway between the 90hp and the 115hp options and it weighs the same as the smaller 75-90hp Honda engines at only 365lbs, which is 3lbs heavier than a Yamaha 90hp.  Finally, two other things to think about would be that on the Arima Boats website they only recommend a 75hp outboard motor, definitely something to keep in mind.  And in terms of Honda vs Yamaha?  I'd go with the Honda.  They have a standard 5 year warranty on their engines whereas per the Yamaha website they only come with a 3 year warranty.  Can you extend your Yamaha warranty?  Probably, but that's just extra money that could be spent on a kicker, electronics, fishing gear and so on.

https://marine.honda.com/outboards/motor-detail/BF75-90-100

https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/home/outboards/115-50-hp/f115
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mustang65fbk on February 06, 2018, 09:47:14 PM
  Point being is at this present time the actual max HP ratings on these new boats should be adjusted to reflect that  :twocents:

I always get a chuckle seeing those "max HP" stats on the Arima Boats website as I know there are guys out there that want the maximum amount of hp possible and to go as fast as they possibly can.  My boat does right around 35mph and I'm more than ok with only going that speed as anything north of 40-45mph, like my uncles old boat would do, on the water can get very dicey rather quickly if you hit a wave you don't see or whales/sea life surface near you when cruising and so on.  Plus it drains the fuel that much more quickly.  I'm guessing a 90hp engine on the OP's 17' SC would still get him over 30mph?  You aren't going to be pulling someone on an inner tube or wakeboard at that speed because if they crashed it would hurt like hell and if you did do a long haul to go to a fishing spot at say 40mph vs 35mph and it's a 40 mile trek?  Well you got there 8 minutes faster. I don't see why you'd need to go or get there any faster but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Marine40 on February 06, 2018, 10:05:16 PM
Buy the 115 of any brand and get a kicker motor. Fill the tank up with gas. Make sure you load a couple fat guys in the boat and then
Please take a picture and post it here.

I can say fat guys because I'm fat!

Darren

Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Holoholo808 on February 07, 2018, 12:36:06 AM
90 and a 4 blade. I don’t know about you guys but I never come across flat enough conditions to hit WOT. I also have my boat loaded pretty heavy when I fish (5 Tiagras, 100 lbs of ice, 40 gallons+ of gas, custom metal top, etc.) and the 90/4 blade get out of the hole just fine.

For reference my friend has twin Johnson (Suzuki) 40s on his 17 SC and it sits fine with the batteries moved to the cuddy.

As long as you balance the weight in the stern with static loads forward (i.e. batteries, not fuel), you should be okay with the 115 if you really want the extra oomph. However, as others have mentioned, the Arima’s forte isn’t in top end and a larger engine kind of misses the point of the hull design.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Ko Ho on February 07, 2018, 07:40:27 AM
I have a Sea Chaser 17 with twin Yamaha 40's (i.e. 80 hp), and it's plenty of power for me. Admittedly, I fish 100% of he time and never pull a wakeboard, though I'm pretty sure I could with no problem. I think a 90 would be fine. You also mention that you'll be fishing, and in Puget Sound, that means a kicker, which you might want to add in the future.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Ko Ho on February 07, 2018, 07:55:41 AM
BTW, if you're ordering a new chaser from Defiance, be sure to talk to Don Gross if he's still there (former owner of Arima) before you power up. Ask him what he thinks about twin motors. It makes the question of main vs kickers moot. The modification for dual throttle controls at the helm can be done at the factory.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: blindmonkey on February 07, 2018, 08:07:46 AM
Buy the 115 Yamaha if it’s close in price. At 377 lbs for an additional 20 pounds 25 more hp makes sense and as noted the motor will not be working as hard as 90 hp.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 07, 2018, 08:57:01 AM
If the Yamaha 115 is “about” the same weight as a Honda 90, what would be the reasoning to not go with a 115 cost factor aside? The Yamaha F90 is 353#, and the F115 is 377#? Doesn’t seem to be very much of a weight difference between the 2 :shrug9: If the Yamaha 115 is WAY too heavy for a 17, then wouldn’t a 90 Honda at 359# also be too heavy :shrug9:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Rokefin on February 07, 2018, 09:38:42 AM
First off you are getting a fine boat, my only issue with the subject would be tubing or water skiing with 3 or 4 people in a 17 Chaser - I just don't think there is enough room for that when all accessories are piled in the boat. You would need all the power you can get, but when all the equations are added up I would think a 90hp would be the ticket.

I have a 17 Chaser with a 115 yami and I feel I would not want any less motor, but I have never been on a 17 Chaser with a 90 so it is really hard for me to be a judge in this issue......I do have a kicker and batteries in the back but I never really notice the ass low or water flowing in the back but I have a nice figure :wink:  and only fish 2 in my boat most the time, sometimes 3 - and I still want more power :shrug9:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 07, 2018, 10:07:40 AM
Re: a 115 not working as hard as a 90... the Yamaha 90 and 115 are the *same* motor.  The 115 changes the throttle mapping and ups the rev limiter, the extra HP is all at the top of the RPM range.  It is going to work just as hard as the 90 in the RPM's where an Arima operates.

I would suggest the OP call up Defiance/Arima and ask Don for his thoughts.  Betcha a beer he's going to tell you go with a 90 and spend the $$$$ you save on a kicker.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Chief of the Boat on February 07, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
The Yamaha F115 is the same block as the F90, the extra power comes from the DOHC.  The same thing they did with the F70.   
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: blue heron on February 07, 2018, 10:25:12 AM
Wow, an amazing amount of comments in a short period of time on this issue.   I'm in agreement with Threeweight's comments.  However, if you stay with your original requirement of only a 115 Yamaha or 115 Honda my comments are: (1) Yes, go with the 100 pound lighter Yamaha. (2) If you want to fish saltwater, I'd consider a kicker for safety reasons.  (You could remove the the kicker to reduce weight while pulling wakeboards and also run with less fuel in the tand to reduce rear end weight.)
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: blue heron on February 07, 2018, 10:28:18 AM
Sorry about the typo, that was the tail end - not tand.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 07, 2018, 10:31:23 AM
Dual overhead cam designs allow engines to rev higher than a single cam (the rev limiter on the Yamaha 115 is 6300 RPM, vs. 6000 on the 90) which allows for higher peak horsepower to be be achieved with the same displacement.  The upside is single cam valve trains tend to be lighter and simpler.

The Yamaha web site actually shows the 90 as 25 pounds lighter than the 115 (353# vs 377#) because of the different top ends on the motors.

I'm sure the 115 would perform great, and ultimately the owner of a boat is the main guy that needs to be happy with it.  If he's going to fish salmon, though, I think he needs a good kicker more than the extra 25 hp at high RPM.

I'm now running a very different boat than my old Arima, with a much bigger (and thirstier!) motor.  I miss the fuel bill on the Arima! 
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Chief of the Boat on February 07, 2018, 10:51:49 AM
The new BF90's are 5300-6300 http://marine.honda.com/outboards/motor-detail/BF75-90-100
https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/home/outboards/115-50-hp/f115
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 07, 2018, 11:50:41 AM
The Honda 90 is a 1.5 liter engine, where the Yamaha 90 is 1.8.  Honda gets to 90 hp from the smaller motor with a single cam, but with a variable camshaft profile (they call it "VTEC").  The advantage is it allows them to have high reving, small displacement engines that reach high peak HP while having a flatter power curve than one could otherwise get.

The downside is that small is a relative term with Honda, as the VTEC design adds weight (and many of their engines are marinized versions of their automotive or motorcycle designs).  Thus their motor ends up weighing more than the Yamaha and Suzuki 90's (though it would be interesting to see what the power curves of the three motors look like).

Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: pgbrown on February 07, 2018, 12:34:08 PM
While I am running a Honda 90 with the matching 9.9 on my 17, it does seem a bit heavy at times but with trim tabs, it's all good, even with 2 batteries in the stern/ port and starboard.  I did compensate by keeping the DR weights in the cuddy in the middle of the boat, along with an additional bag of sand nearer the bow.
Here is a pic of me at rest in the marina
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/9/7034-010617092341.jpeg)



I saw this on the Suzuki site that did give a quick comparison with Honda and Yamaha.Click on the Suzuki advantages link

http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product%20Lines/Outboard%20Motors/Products/DF90/2012/DF90A.aspx
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 07, 2018, 02:24:06 PM
Lots of good advice from some very knowledgeable members. It’s safe to say that the Honda 115 is out of the decision. Just to heavy. So if you can only choose between Honda and Yamaha brand motors you only have a few options. Honda 90 or Yamaha 90-115. Honda 90 with a 4-blade prop and trim tabs to get that wakeboarder up you would probably be very happy. 5 yr warranty, less cost. Yamaha 115, more top end speed (although not much), 3 year warranty, probably a few thousand more $$$ than the Honda. Both well respected brands. Man, I would not want to have to make this decision. Up to you, at this point I think cost would be the determining factor. Good luck, and let us know what you decide. Really, I think you would be more than happy with either one :beerchug:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mustang65fbk on February 07, 2018, 04:35:52 PM
I’d chat with the Arima guys at Defiance and see what they have to say but for me the choice is easy. 90hp Honda with a 5 year warranty and then a matching 6-8hp Honda kicker motor. Spend the extra money you save on a kicker and GPS/electronics. If you want more power then I’d get a bigger boat  :shark:  like a 19-21’ SR and/or a bigger garage for said boat. Nice used Arima’s also come up fairly often. Might also be something to think about.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Sparhawk on February 07, 2018, 08:07:21 PM
 :yeahthat: I would go with a yamaha 90 and a kicker, you will get a bit more bang for your buck IMO. While you said you don’t want a kicker, in the event that your engine breaks down or has an issue, a kicker can be a godsend. Kickers are also helpful if you aren’t the best at docking, loading the boat, you need to maneuver in a tight space, or the ramp is shallow so the main can’t be used safely, etc. Plus it can help some people feel a bit safer knowing that there is a backup engine.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mysealium on February 07, 2018, 10:14:40 PM
I wish I had a 115 on my sea chaser 17................. especially going out albacore fishing offshore with 3 guys and a boat load of tuna ................then again I have an older carb honda 90. I believe the newer fuel injected honda 90 has more HP. Can anyone confirm this?
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 07, 2018, 11:34:31 PM
Wouldn't have more horsepower, but the VTEC system would make for a flatter power curve (meaning it would have more power lower in it's RPM range).

I never wanted for power fishing for Tuna! or halibut in my old 17' with a Suzi 90, but for Tuna! I never fished more than 2 people and a dog.  If you feel like it doesn't have enough grunt when loaded heavy, look into a 4 blade prop... the cheap Solas Amita 4 blades are popular with Arima owners for that reason.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: beancounter on February 08, 2018, 04:22:17 AM
Second threeweight's comment if you have a 90 on a 17 and feel underpowered you are overpropped. I run a carbed Honda 90 on a 19 Chaser and I can fill that boat with fat blokes,gear,ice etc and it will jump right on plane. Is it fast heck no. Never see 30 mph but I am usually cruising 18-22 mph right where a little Arima shines.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: StreamFixer on February 08, 2018, 09:43:37 AM
As one of the Island guys noted..  Conditions as sea seldom allow you to run WOT.  Beancounter's speed is just about an Arima max in most ocean conditions in the NW.  If you are fishing the Sound, don't plan on WOT conditions very often and then not for long.

A 4 blade prop, properly sized, can make a world of difference in your boat's performance.

StreamFixer
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mustang65fbk on February 08, 2018, 02:02:17 PM
someone just posted this in the "for sale" section of the website.  Looks like a very clean boat and with low hours, it also sports a 90hp Honda.  Might be something to think about if you can get your deposit back, probably a good deal cheaper than a new boat and would be a fun drive to Cali and back.  I myself drove out to Maryland and back this last summer to buy my 21' SR ST.  It was over 6000 miles roundtrip but I had a lot of fun and would do it again in a second. 

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/d/2003-arima-sea-ranger-honda/6482854388.html
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: troll4fish on February 08, 2018, 10:01:16 PM
I have a 1992 sc17 with a 2003 mercury (Yamaha) 90 on it. It is more than enough power even at the altitudes I fish (9000' ASL down to sea level) my motor was built by Yamaha and the specs say it weighs 386 and I did move my batteries up front were the porta-potty was to lighten the ass end! I also have a Honda 8hp full remote power tilt kicker back there on the salt boss style Arima bracket adding another 140LBS!
I would go lighter if I were you and like my motor I think the only difference between the Yamaha's 75, 90 and 115 is the tuning!

Here is how mine sits with the two of us and all our gear in the boat plus a couple of 20LB salmon in the box!.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 08, 2018, 10:08:08 PM
I’m seeing the newer Yamaha F90 weighing 353# :shrug9:, the 115, 377#
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mustang65fbk on February 09, 2018, 05:01:35 AM
Yeah the higher HP Honda outboards can get on the heavy side.  As others have stated, they will often use their vehicle engines and turn them into a marine outboard, so they tend to weigh more.  If I was the OP I'd go with the Honda 100hp engine as it weighs the same as the 75-90hp Honda at 359lbs, yet it has 10 more hp, since it seems he wants as much as possible, yet it still comes with the 5 year warranty as opposed to the 3 year with Yamaha. 
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Docmi on February 09, 2018, 01:32:32 PM
The 100hp Honda did cross my mind and looked appealing.  However, when I researched it, i found out that it requires premium fuel which is not only more expensive but also less available at marina fuel stations.  I double checked with Honda and they confirmed that premium gas is a requirement.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 01:36:28 PM
I’ve always used premium in all my motors regardless  :shrug9:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: mustang65fbk on February 09, 2018, 01:54:31 PM
The 100hp Honda did cross my mind and looked appealing.  However, when I researched it, i found out that it requires premium fuel which is not only more expensive but also less available at marina fuel stations.  I double checked with Honda and they confirmed that premium gas is a requirement.

Have you checked with Defiance or whomever you’re going to buy the the boat from in terms of what the price is for each engine? I don’t want to sound like a smart arse or anything but you’re wanting to potentially spend thousands of dollars more on a higher hp engine that very few people on here, and likely from Arima/Defiance, are recommending to then be worried about spending an extra $.15-20/gal on premium fuel?  Even if you had to buy premium fuel... if you put in 30 gallons of fuel and say the price difference is $.20/gal between regular and premium, you'd still only be spending $6 more for premium.  That doesn’t make any sense to me. And most places around here that I know of have both regular, premium and diesel.  :shrug9: :anyone:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 09, 2018, 02:23:59 PM
The Honda requires premium fuel to make 100 hp (it is a very high compression motor).  When run on 87 octane, the engine's computer will retard timing to avoid knocking.  It will run just fine on 87, but it will probably produce something more like 90 hp.

Same thing with Yamaha's 2.8 liter 200... run it on regular and it detunes to avoid knocking, and likely puts out power similar to the Yamaha 175.

Most marina's that have non-ethanol fuel will be selling mid-grade or premium fuel.  I personally would avoid a motor that required premium to make full power, but mostly because I burn a lot of fuel in the summer.  With a 100 gallon tank, $2.45 cent regular is a lot less painful than $2.99 premium, or $4.00 marina fuel.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Yachter Yat on February 09, 2018, 02:27:52 PM
   Like Fisher, I use only premium as well.  If you research this, you'll see, gas loses a certain amount of its octane over time.  Consequently, if your boat sits for a while (as many do), you might actually be burning a much lower octane rated fuel than you realize.  IMO, it's best to start high.

Yat
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 02:31:08 PM
That and the gas nowadays is garbage anyways so try to get all you can out of it
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 02:41:39 PM
Premium fuel in California is 91 octane. Used to be 92 octane years ago. I recall seeing some areas that still have 93 octane premium
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Threeweight on February 09, 2018, 02:55:57 PM
Just note that premium/octane don't tell you anything about ethanol content.  Ethyl alcohol actually increases the octane rating of the fuel.

Pretty much every gas station pump in my area selling 91 octane is selling E10.

Though if he's buying a brand new motor, I wouldn't worry about ethanol fuel at all. 
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Yachter Yat on February 10, 2018, 06:32:00 AM
   Just as Threeweight noted, everything around here is E10 as well.  As I'm sure many of us have read, there's a push to go E15.  Oh boy......I can't wait! :hoboy:

Yat
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Docmi on February 14, 2018, 09:33:24 PM
I would like to thank all of you for your input and advice.  After doing much research and discussions with FDefiance , I decided to go with a 115 Yamaha.  Although Defiance thought that 17 SC could handle the 478 lb Honda 115, to me it is still extra 100 lbs on the transom all the time.  In my research I found that the the Yamaha 90 and 115 weigh within 20-25 lbs of each other and both are just about the same as the Honda 90.  Fuel economy of both Yamahas is about the same with about .5 GPH difference at WOT and both are slightly better than Honda 90. Current promotions helped decrease the cost difference between the Yamaha 90 and 115 to the point that the price difference didn’t matter much in the overall price of the boat.  Given all of this,  I really didn’t see a downside to getting the Yamaha 115.  I am eagerly awaiting my new boat and very happy to be a new Arima owner and member of this forum. I’m sure I’ll be asking lots more questions.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: FWilliams on February 14, 2018, 09:44:06 PM
you will be very happy with that decision! :applause:
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Fisherdv on February 14, 2018, 10:08:16 PM
Nice!  :applause: Please give us an update on how the boat performs
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Marine40 on February 14, 2018, 10:26:05 PM
You will love your new motor!   When you fill up on gas and add the kicker motor please take a picture of how close the water is to the top of the splash well.
Title: Re: 115 hp Honda vs Yamaha for 17 Sea Chaser
Post by: Rokefin on February 15, 2018, 07:44:59 AM
I would like to thank all of you for your input and advice.  After doing much research and discussions with FDefiance , I decided to go with a 115 Yamaha.  Although Defiance thought that 17 SC could handle the 478 lb Honda 115, to me it is still extra 100 lbs on the transom all the time.  In my research I found that the the Yamaha 90 and 115 weigh within 20-25 lbs of each other and both are just about the same as the Honda 90.  Fuel economy of both Yamahas is about the same with about .5 GPH difference at WOT and both are slightly better than Honda 90. Current promotions helped decrease the cost difference between the Yamaha 90 and 115 to the point that the price difference didn’t matter much in the overall price of the boat.  Given all of this,  I really didn’t see a downside to getting the Yamaha 115.  I am eagerly awaiting my new boat and very happy to be a new Arima owner and member of this forum. I’m sure I’ll be asking lots more questions.



Great choice.  With all those reasons sounds like a no brainer.