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Arima Forum => Electronics and Electrical => Topic started by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 06:33:39 PM

Title: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 06:33:39 PM
So I just made a new panel for my switches, as I'm replacing the old original switch panel, but I'm a little confused here.

There seems to be no ground wire, only power wires?
There's the main ground wire going to the block, but nothing in return to the switch panel? Seems everything is hot wires?

Basically I made this:
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/7859-040218183116.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 07:06:55 PM
Does your new switch panel come with a wiring diagram?  I just looked at mine and there’s all different colored wires going to it. I did not see a black wire
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
I’m pretty sure  those are only the switches for the power on/off and the devices themselves are grounded separately
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 07:37:21 PM
I made my own switch panel off of various new multi-switch panels you can buy.

In the picture The long RED power wire and Long BLACK ground wire would be attached to the boats power and ground wire.
Basically you should be able to connect each accessory (bilge, bait pump, wipers, etc.)  to each switch and everything will turn on/off.

But what I noticed is there is no ground wire to connect the panels ground wire to, unless I just splice into the existing main ground.
 


Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 07:41:13 PM
Are all your accessories like the bilge, wiper , lights grounded from the device to a ground bar or a ground on a fuse panel now?
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 07:45:37 PM
Are all your accessories like the bilge, wiper , lights grounded from the device to a ground bar or a ground on a fuse panel now?

I didn't think about that, they must be.  :doh: I think I started to over think things and got lost. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 07:49:15 PM
AJ, I think you got a case of that CRS that you talked about :jester: All kidding aside all,you need are the positives from the devices to that switch. The devices should be already grounded to your fuse block or ground bar  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Hydroman on February 04, 2018, 07:54:13 PM
What are the devices that have on your panel ?

Is one row the switches and the other row fuses, if so your wiring is incorrect.

Jim
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 08:22:15 PM
What are the devices that have on your panel ?

Is one row the switches and the other row fuses, if so your wiring is incorrect.

Jim

"Is one row the switches and the other row fuses, if so your wiring is incorrect."  Yes. How should this be connected and corrected?
 

Devices on my panel :
- Anchor light
- Nav light
- 1 Bilge pump
- 1 Bait tank pump
- Horn, but I need to get a horn switch.
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 08:24:55 PM
Do you have a pic of the front of the switch panel?
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 08:26:17 PM
AJ, I think you got a case of that CRS that you talked about :jester: All kidding aside all,you need are the positives from the devices to that switch. The devices should be already grounded to your fuse block or ground bar  :beerchug:

CRS, your right  :jester:
I decided to open a can of worms here with this wiring, something I'm learning, as I go, and I have very little experience with.

All the help is appreciated!
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 08:27:53 PM
Do you have a pic of the front of the switch panel?

2 position rocker switches and I had to use the old fuse holders since the one I purchased were for so small.
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/7859-040218202715.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Hydroman on February 04, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
AJ,

I stand corrected,  didn't know that your switched had indicator lamps in them.  You will need install a negative battery buss to connect all of you accessories together.

Jim
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 08:44:23 PM
Maybe this will help

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-040218204322-108031472.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 08:46:53 PM
AJ,

I stand corrected,  didn't know that your switched had indicator lamps in them.  You will need install a negative battery buss to connect all of you accessories together.

Jim

No worries, I'm glad you pointed it out; I just learned this today :jester:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 08:48:00 PM
Maybe this will help

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-040218204322-108031472.jpeg)

Fisherdv thats awesome, thanks!
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 08:48:54 PM
I didn’t realize you had a fused switch panel, but I think that diagram is the same as yours
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Hydroman on February 04, 2018, 08:56:20 PM
AJ,

The drawing has all of the information you need.

I congratulate you in taking the time and effort to undertake the rewiring project. I would encourage all boater to educated themselves on all systems on their vessel.

Jim
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 04, 2018, 08:59:47 PM
Thank you fisherdv and Jim for the help. Looks like I will have another Amazon box for the recycling bin on Tuesday :jester:
Any and all additional information or suggestions are welcomed  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 04, 2018, 09:10:45 PM
I’ve gotten so much great advice here. I try my best to do the same for others. That is, if I think I have an idea of what I’m talking about  :jester:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Croaker Stroker on February 04, 2018, 09:17:40 PM

I recommend this EBAY seller. “Gregs Marine”. Good quality Marine grade wire and dependable delivery.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/gregsmarine?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Many of us have used his wire.  (Tinned)

Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 05, 2018, 11:00:08 AM

I recommend this EBAY seller. “Gregs Marine”. Good quality Marine grade wire and dependable delivery.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/gregsmarine?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Many of us have used his wire.  (Tinned)

I'll have to take a look, thanks CS.
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: SB Steve on February 05, 2018, 06:54:10 PM
Maybe this will help

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-040218204322-108031472.jpeg)

Cheers!  This diagram is invaluable to those of us with old Arimas, and a lot of re-wiring ahead in their future!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: jamaica on February 05, 2018, 09:15:28 PM
You don't need 14ga wire for all these circuits, 16ga is plenty for some.

Maybe this will help

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-040218204322-108031472.jpeg)

Cheers!  This diagram is invaluable to those of us with old Arimas, and a lot of re-wiring ahead in their future!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: DevMah on February 07, 2018, 06:35:17 AM
You don't need 14ga wire for all these circuits, 16ga is plenty for some.

Maybe this will help

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-040218204322-108031472.jpeg)

Cheers!  This diagram is invaluable to those of us with old Arimas, and a lot of re-wiring ahead in their future!  :beerchug:


Use the circuit wizard to calculate your min wire size... you can upsize if you wish.

http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/


One thing to look at as this is a good overall General Arrangement drawing but the fusing to each device  must be done as per the manufacture recommendation.

Just keep in mind you always fuse to the device/Amps in the circuit , you not to your wire size ...wire size is determined by total length of run, load amps and critical voltage.


Dev
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 08, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
AJFISHIN, hows the re wire coming along?
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 08, 2018, 09:21:06 PM
It's coming along.
I have this horn button (momentary push button switch) and I can't figure out if I need to connect 2 hot wires, or 1 hot and 1 ground, or what  :shrug9:
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/7859-080218211907.jpeg)

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/7859-080218212027.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 08, 2018, 09:33:29 PM
AJFISHIN, I think that’s going to be in the middle of one hot + wire, basically like a switch. Contacts when, pushed, cuts power when released
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 08, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
I believe that button is going to go in between the horn and the fuse box positive lead with one, single positive wire. One end of the wire to the horn, the other end to the fuse box, that button in the middle
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 08, 2018, 09:55:58 PM
I couldn’t find my stylus pen so it’s kinda sloppy but like this

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-080218215415-10823606.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 08, 2018, 09:58:29 PM
I couldn’t find my stylist pen so it’s kinda sloppy but like this

(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/10/9220-080218215415-10823606.jpeg)

 :jester: when I first that I thought, when did I write on the box, my brain is fried.  :facepalm:

Second question, what is a good gauge wire for the wires coming from the battery to the fuse block?
I read 10 awg is good, so I bought that. But now I just read 8awg is the way to go :doh:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 08, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
Is it a long run from the battery in the back, to the fuse box in the cuddy? Then I would say the 8 gauge. The longer the wire run, the heavier the gauge
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 09, 2018, 09:56:41 AM
Heading to the shop today to pick up some 8 gauge wire and hopefully I can finish it up by Sunday.
But first it's Vegas for some throws of the dice :biggrin:

Thanks for the help Fisherdv :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 10:01:14 AM
 :party: :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 10:22:49 AM
One more thing to consider which I think someone else mentioned earlier is to match the fuse size to the components. Most will be between about 3-5, maybe a few 20’s, you can check the owners manual of your devices to get the recommended fuse sizes. Also, you may want to run the VHF radio and your bilge pump directly to the battery with a fuse about 6 inches from the battery post. And keep an assortment of dry, spare fuses in your tool kit. Have fun in Vegas! Hopefully you can win a few BOAT bucks!
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 09, 2018, 12:24:39 PM
One more thing to consider which I think someone else mentioned earlier is to match the fuse size to the components. Most will be between about 3-5, maybe a few 20’s, you can check the owners manual of your devices to get the recommended fuse sizes. Also, you may want to run the VHF radio and your bilge pump directly to the battery with a fuse about 6 inches from the battery post. And keep an assortment of dry, spare fuses in your tool kit. Have fun in Vegas! Hopefully you can win a few BOAT bucks!

My VHF has a inline fuse and is connected to the fuse bloack. My pumps are are connected to a fuse in my switch panel, not sure if that would be adequate? But that is how it was originally wired.

This is what I have as for fuses and I think this is all good:
- Bilge pump 2.5 AMP
- Bait Pump 2.5 AMP
- Fishfinder/GPS 3 AMP
- VHF Radio (inline fuse) 7 AMP
- Wiper 2 AMP (future part)
- Horn 4 AMP
- LED Volt Meter/USB/12 Volt Lighter Socket Panel - 20 AMP

Thanks again Fisherdv.

I just need my YO's to come up often and I will be happy  :biggrin:
(https://i.imgur.com/CrcXWTE.gif)
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 02:52:55 PM
The reasoning why the VHF and bilge pump are recommended to be isolated, and wires straight to the battery is that in the event of a problem or short circuit with your fuse panel, your two most important safety items would still work. You still use the inline fuses, but try to keep the fuse as close to the battery as possible
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 09, 2018, 04:26:33 PM
The reasoning why the VHF and bilge pump are recommended to be isolated, and wires straight to the battery is that in the event of a problem or short circuit with your fuse panel, your two most important safety items would still work. You still use the inline fuses, but try to keep the fuse as close to the battery as possible

Makes sense.
I just need to do a little reconfiguring of the bilge and add a fuse near the battery.

As for my VHF radio, it's connected to my fuse block, and not to a inline fuse anymore, as of last night. But I always carry with me a handheld VHF radio, which has a pretty good range, just in case of an emergency.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 09, 2018, 04:36:39 PM
My VHF is to the fuse box too. I haven’t had a chance to re-wire it yet
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: DevMah on February 09, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
The reasoning why the VHF and bilge pump are recommended to be isolated, and wires straight to the battery is that in the event of a problem or short circuit with your fuse panel, your two most important safety items would still work. You still use the inline fuses, but try to keep the fuse as close to the battery as possible

Makes sense.
I just need to do a little reconfiguring of the bilge and add a fuse near the battery.


As for my VHF radio, it's connected to my fuse block, and not to a inline fuse anymore, as of last night. But I always carry with me a handheld VHF radio, which has a pretty good range, just in case of an emergency.

Thanks again.


My lines are fused directly from the battery using the Blue Seas MRBF fuse holders then from there the acc wire feeds a rear fuse panel (I have a safety hub 150). My second battery switch is after the hub so I have two lines B+ that feed 2 fuse panels one is switch one is not at the helm.

I do not recommend just guessing wire sizes please use the Blue Seas wire wizard.

As for the horn connections they are correct but looking at that switch make sure you install it in a dry location as is dose not look look like the water resistant type.

Dev
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 11, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
Finally finished, well pretty much, just have a few small things to do.
Thank you fisherdv, Dev, CS, Hydro, and Jamaica, for help, totally appreciate it. :beerchug:

(https://i.imgur.com/3dGh9KMl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ytBCA2dl.jpg)

Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 11, 2018, 05:47:27 PM
Looks great AJ!  :applause: :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Hydroman on February 11, 2018, 05:49:50 PM
Nice work, very perfesionsl

Jim
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: DevMah on February 11, 2018, 06:02:16 PM
Finally finished, well pretty much, just have a few small things to do.
Thank you fisherdv, Dev, CS, Hydro, and Jamaica, for help, totally appreciate it. :beerchug:

(https://i.imgur.com/3dGh9KMm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ytBCA2dm.jpg)

Looks Good!!!

I am just going to add a few suggestions

Wire labels

https://www.amazon.com/Onirii-Assorted-Waterproof-Resistant-Self-adhesive/dp/B01G0KSUNC/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_229_lp_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GFCEFEX8HVFGD32C5V50

Or

https://www.amazon.com/ScotchCode-Marker-Write-Dispenser-1-375/dp/B0035KWW08


Panel labels

https://www.bluesea.com/products/4217/Waterproof_DC_Label_Kit_-_120_Black_Square_Labels


Or
Offshore

https://www.ebay.com/itm/45x-Rocker-Switch-Label-Decal-Circuit-Fuse-Panel-Sticker-Marine-Boat-Instrument/192395082421?epid=18011253991&hash=item2ccba3fab5:g:PJYAAOSw~HBaL2iz&vxp=mtr


You can label the wires or fuses and the switch panel
Dev
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 11, 2018, 07:44:42 PM
Thank you for the compliments. :smile1:

@Dev,  yes definitely they need labels, which I will be doing tomorrow. I have a handheld label printer that I'm going to use to print my labels, but if I don't like the way mine look, I really like the look of the panel labels you posted the link of, those are nice.

It's funny how this hole thing happened. Originally I was only going to take off the black vinyl stickers off the dash boards. But that rolled into upgrading my switch panel, hence my title. But then that rolled into a complete rewire job.
At first I was hesitant on doing a rewire, thinking it might be to much to do. But after I cut the first wire, unplugged my switches, and separated the wires, it's wasn't that bad, pretty straight forward.
I would say the 2 most difficult things was working in the cuddy and laying on the floor in the back, messing around with the bird nest of wires near the battery, but all worth it.

I know one thing, my back and neck are glad this is done.
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 11, 2018, 07:50:14 PM
I hear ya AJ, I hate working upside down
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: DevMah on February 11, 2018, 08:16:50 PM
LOL...
I have used the offshore labels they work well.. just make sure the surface is clean. The blue seas ones actually fit the recesses in the fuse box cover.

Don’t worry your back and knees get use to it.... Once you start wiring and see the money you saved you can use beer therapy to help with the discomfort ...


  :beerchug: :beerchug:


Dev
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 11, 2018, 09:13:50 PM
I hear ya AJ, I hate working upside down
At times you need to be like a contortionist to do a rewire on these smaller boats :jester:

LOL...
I have used the offshore labels they work well.. just make sure the surface is clean. The blue seas ones actually fit the recesses in the fuse box cover.

Don’t worry your back and knees get use to it.... Once you start wiring and see the money you saved you can use beer therapy to help with the discomfort ...
  :beerchug: :beerchug:
Dev
Definitely beer therapy helped :jester: And some of that money saved went straight to some good beer :biggrin:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 11, 2018, 09:28:48 PM
I’m partaking in a little “therapy” as we speak  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Rokefin on February 12, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
AJ - great job! That really looks clean.
I have been following this thread and other wiring threads as I need a complete rewire, I've done some partial work but I need a complete redo to get rid of the inherited rats nest.
Yes, many thanks to the wiring pro's that are sharing their knowledge - it really helps us amateurs that do our own work - we can be dangerous :biggrin:

Fill up your spare fuse holders....hopefully you wont need them though, after 4 years I finally blew a couple down rigger fuses this past year.
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help (Complete ReWire)
Post by: AJFishin on February 12, 2018, 02:03:04 PM
In case people want to know what I used during my rewire, I listed some things in my gallery under "ReWire". I will add to it if something comes to mind.


This was a true learning experience for me as I had ZERO idea what I was doing. :hoboy:

But I just want to say again THANK YOU and I really appreciate all of the help everyone gives here on this site. This is the best forum out there with great people, with some fun jokes in between.  :biggrin:

Thanks again!   :beerchug:



Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: Fisherdv on February 12, 2018, 02:17:46 PM
Wow, the back of your boat is really clean under the tank
Title: Re: Wiper/bilge/light Switch Panel Help
Post by: AJFishin on February 12, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Wow, the back of your boat is really clean under the tank

 :jester: That was a picture I took when I first pulled out my gas tank when I got my boat back in 2015. It's not that clean right now. :redface: But the wires never moved.