Our bottom fishing up here is very different.
For halibut, we fish braid with 2-3# lead balls. Our halibut like to hang out on sandy slopes around rocky structure that drives currents and congregates bait fish, small rockfish, octopus, etc... With a sensitive rod you can tell the difference between the "clunk clunk" of gravel or rock, the "thump thump" of sand, or the "sticky" feeling of mud. This is important. Clunk clunk means reel up right now or you are about to lose $20 of gear in the rocks. "Thump thump" means you are in the sweet spot. That sticky feeling means you are wasting your time in an area no halibut are.
Newbies who go Neah Bay often lose $50-100 bucks of gear in their first morning before they learn how to tell the difference between rock and sand (been there, done that).
A 9' rod is way way too long for our halibut. With 3# of lead attached you will kill your arms and shoulders trying to jig, and when you lift to jig the weight the tip will just flex and the lead won't move. Trying to reel up an 80# halibut in 600' of water, the long rod length gives the fish a ton of leverage to use against you to.
So in neah bay do you guys bounce ball the halibut.
Like with flashers and dead bait and two to three pound balls?
And have the boat moving at 1/2 a mph
Or is it a drift style fishing ?
I'm curious how you guys up north get it done.
As for rods seekers are awasome.
I might be a little one sided cuz my buddie wraps rods for a living
And I get them at dealer cost .:shrug9:
We usually run bait on spreader bars (metal or home-made styles). No flashers, downriggers, etc... Look like this:
(http://www.fishinbc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Halibut-Fishing-IMG_0428.jpg)
Short (like 3-4") dropper of 30# test mono attached to the short arm, and a big lead cannon ball attached to that. Leader (I use 150# mono) run off the long arm, with big hooks (I like 12/0 Gammi Big Rivers, some guys like 14/0 or 16/0 circle hooks). Leader kept short enough that it can't flip back up and reach the main line on the way down. Bait is typically a big horse herring (12" long), shad fillet, a couple of Tuna! bellies, salmon bellies, etc..., and we wrap them onto the hook and leader with bait cord/stretch string. Flashers and such are pointless at 600'... no light down there. Just more $$ to lose when you snag a rock. I like to use a big hoochie in front of the bait... theory being if the fish snatches the bait, there is still something flapping around that looks food-like. I also like to run a top shot of 50# mono between my 65# braid and the spreader... if I get a really bad snag, the mono will break and save me from having to cut my expensive braid.
Neah is at the mouth of the Straight of Juan DeFuca. Looks like SE Alaska... very very rocky shoreline, big boulders, cliffs, rocky islands. Very powerful currents coming in and out of the Straight. There are offshore areas of big sandy humps and "table tops" where "chicken" size halibut (20-30# fish) congregate. 250-400' deep, and easier fishing, less gear lost, more likely to catch a fish there. Bigger fish will be on the sand around rocky pinnacle, waiting to pick off rockfish, salmon, octopus, etc... Can be anywhere from 200' to 800' deep. Fish in the 40-80# range are regularly caught. Every year a few over 100# are caught.
I prefer to drift at about .5 mph to, but the currents at Neah seldom cooperate and let us drift that nicely. If I can drift at less than 1 mph, that is good enough, but even that is hard. We often have to run the kicker motor, or the main motor, and bump into reverse periodically to back into the drift to slow things down. Bait has to be on the bottom... if it's off more then 4-5' you are wasting your time. You can't allow much angle to form on the lines, or you will start dragging the lead cannon balls rather than bouncing them... meaning they snag quickly and you are out $20 bucks for lead, spreader bar, hooks and tackle. I have seen first timers at Neah Bay blow through $100 in tackle in a few hours.
If an area has lots of boulders/rocky structure mixed with the and, or if there are a lot of little bait thieves around, I will swap over to a big lead head jig (24 or 32 oz) with a giant scampi curly tail on it (12" or 14"), tipped with octopus for scent.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b4db06b3127ccec8629106d29500000010O08AcNmjNu4ZNge3nwU/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
More work to jig and really work this rig, but if you know what you are doing you will lose less gear. I love the heavy Shimano Trevala rods for this. This technique has accounted for my three biggest fish up there (two approx 80# and one approx 60#). Brook/Grizzle is the jedi master at this, and got one over 100# a few years ago. This set up will also catch big lingcod.
ThreeWeight has described one way, I use a different rig and seldom jig. We get our fish too, sometimes a double.
I think Zarn trolls
Lots of ways to get the job done. The big trick is to get the bait where the fish are and can find it...
StreamFisher
Some guys (like Russ) tie up their own dropper rig that allows them to fish multiple hooks and baits without getting tangled. Basically a giant shrimp fly rig. You can do this with really heavy mono, or with blue Tuna! cord. It works well, but it takes some trial and error to figure out how to rig them. Some instructions are on Ifish:
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=196790 (http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=196790)
Zarn trolls off the beach at Tillamook... nice and sandy with no rocks. I would not advise trying that at Neah Bay. Vancouver Techie and his buddy Grant were fishing with me in 2012 when someone trying to do that trolled right over my line as I was fighting a 60# fish. Made for an interesting conversation. Once we got the fish in the boat and them untangled from us, they trolled on off and right into two other boats lines.
Actually the rig I use was developed by Dave Steele (Chinook Guide Service) usually running out of Garibaldi or Winchester Bay area. He has it made by Oregon Tackle in Portland. They run around $10 (if memory serves).
The rig has never failed to deliver (when put in proximity to the fish) nor have I ever had a tangle. I get a double hook-up about 25% of the time.
I'll get a picture up later today. If anyone wants, I can pick up some extras and bring along to Neah..
StreamFixer
I'm new to the halibut game but feel like I've done fairly well given my location and the limited amount of time I've got into it. I've been rigging like this:
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=365278
I've have switched from rigging with wire to rigging with heavy mono just because mono is easier and quicker to rig. I also use "J" hooks over circles because setting the hook is a highlight for me.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/atothep_2008/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmhqqg24p.jpeg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/atothep_2008/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmhqqg24p.jpeg.html)
AP slays! :D
A few years back I was trolling a hootchie along the bottom off the Caves at Sekiu in search of a blackmouth during their Fall derby. Rod bucked twice and then the fish went on a long run. I was convinced that I had sewn up the derby until I saw the brown blur of the 20 lb halibut twenty feet below the boat.
I catch several chickens a year while trolling during King season, but for me the fun is in fishing big baits with big hooks using heavy gear. I use spreader bars, but bring a bunch of heavy jigs along as well.
Let's face it: how many people can casually mention at a cocktail party that they've used a harpoon?!
I have high hopes of catching my 1st ever Halibut this year (although I seem to say that every year).
Gotta be there Terry... You don't get them in the front yard Koi pond :jester:
StreamFixer
Cool stuff thanks for sharing!
It's funny to me that you guys refer to 20-30 pound fish as chickens.
Where I fish a 30-40 pound fish is once in a life time.
I can't even imagine fishing 600 ft
We are restricted to 230 ft where I'm at.
Quote from: StreamFixer on December 06, 2015, 11:46:57 AM
Gotta be there Terry... You don't get them in the front yard Koi pond :jester:
StreamFixer
Right you are Russ...
I fish close to home. I NEVER travel to find fish! Just don't have the time on a 2-day weekend.
Now if I ever decide to retire well.....
I have a 5th-wheel that is a 2003 that is in the garage....STILL NEW! Haven't used it even for 6 nights yet...total!
But...I can't very well tow it AND the boat (at least not in this state).
Most of the tools in my shop haven't been used in the last 2 years either.
Just too many things happening all the time...
I need to learn to slow down!!!
None of the pictures show up for me on those ifish links, but I think I get the gist of it from the descriptions. Basically, short leaders on droppers with a weight on the bottom.
How do the two monofilament droppers tangle less than a single leader off of a spreader bar?
Quote from: Tj805 on December 06, 2015, 12:07:00 PM
Cool stuff thanks for sharing!
It's funny to me that you guys refer to 20-30 pound fish as chickens.
Where I fish a 30-40 pound fish is once in a life time.
I can't even imagine fishing 600 ft
We are restricted to 230 ft where I'm at.
Up here, we refer to these as chickens (and Damn fine eating at that!)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/06/4366811198e5d547a769201ab2a34c5e.jpg)
Between my #2 son, his buddy Steve, and 'SuperDavid' at Serengeti Fishing, these are some fine BC HALIBUT!!!
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/06/2e0339de3589103f23af2863d3771cc4.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/06/4f3aa7d9b8f336c5d55301f32ffce6ad.jpg)
(and I've been sworn to secrecy on the 'magic' bait they use...)
Wyrguy Rick
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The tail on that last pic looks as wide as his shoulders. :bigshock:
I caught these near Ketchican years ago. We used live 12"-14" rockfish.
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/0/6_25_01_11_12_38_59_1661570.jpeg)
I believe the guy who makes Russ' uses a black nylon cord for the mainline (sort of like parachute cord). Some guys make their own using blue Tuna! cord. I have tied a few using 150 or 250# mono. It is a vertical rig, with the weight attached to the bottom then the top of the spreader attached to your mainline. Your individual leaders/hooks are rigged off the sides of it, and kept short and spaced far enough apart that they cannot reach each other and tangle. The advantage is you are in direct contact with the weight, so you have the best chance of knowing what kind of bottom you are bouncing.
The trick to not getting tangled with traditional wire spreader bars is #1 keep your hook/leader SHORT. I mean no more than 6-8" You want it so that it cannot possibly reach the mainline and tangle. Halibut could care less what the bait is attached to or what it looks like. The #2 trick is too have a controlled descent. Let line out in a controlled drop under tension, keep your spool control kind of tight and your thumb on the spool of the reel. If you free spool with no resistance, there is no tension on your line to make the spreader bar hang properly, so it folds up and the leader "helicopters" onto your main line as it goes down.
Circle hooks work great if you are patient enough to wait and let the halibut run and hook themselves. I am not that patient. I use J hooks. They are very expensive, but I like the Gamakatsu "Big River" 12/0... halibut have very tough, bony mouths and these seem to penetrate very well:
(http://www.backlashsportfishingusa.com/products/Tackle/GBR.jpg)
I started off using wire, and quickly moved away from it. You basically get one use out of them then they are twisted all to hell. I also hate the little spikey "needle pricks" in my fingers from the wire. I prefer 150# Berkley "Big Game" mono for my leaders. No issues with halibut chewing through it, and it is still easy to tie good knots with.
I typically use a traditional spreader, with the 12/0 Gami Big Rivers on a short, 6" leader with a big hoochie on it. ALWAYS use a top shot of some kind... I like 50# mono between my braid an the spreader. Don't be that guy anchored to the bottom in 600' of water who has to cut their line and leave all that braid out there, waiting to foul someone's prop. Also, ALWAYS use a break-away dropper between your spreader and weight (I like 30# mono). That way if the weight snags and you can't free it, you can break off and replace the lead and get back to fishing.
Not wasting time is key. In my experience, 90% of halibut are caught in the hour before or the hour after slack tide. Don't be out there in the middle of slack tide trying to tie up fresh leaders because you lost yours, or trying to find that extra spreader bar you thought you bought last year. I typically have a dozen or more leaders tied and ready, half a dozen spare spreaders, and a dozen assorted weights and sizes. Several spools of stretchy bait cord, several spools of 30# and 50# mono, and pre-rigged jigs all ready to go. If I break off and lose gear, I can be fishing again in under 5 minutes.
It works.
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/7/4-060915233648.jpeg)
Since we are sharing halibut tips, here is one more that is really important.
Have a descender device of some kind on your boat, rigged and ready, for the inevitable by-catch of yellow eye or canary rock fish that will be suffering from barotrauma due to rapid pressure changes from being reeled out of deep water. Halibut fishing (and deepwater lings) at Neah and a lot of other places end up with lots of these fish caught by accident. They reproduce slowly, and live a very long time, and WDFW (and ODFW down here) are often doing a balancing act of halibut fishing opportunity vs. bycatch and mortality on these fish. The more anglers who are ethical and do their best to get them back down without killing them, the less likely the halibut fishery gets even more restrictive.
I use a Shelton fish descender like this, but there are lots of other products out there:
(http://www.sheltonproducts.com/SFB1.jpg)
Clips through the thin skin at the top of the fish's lip, and you attach a weight to the bottom (a big one for the really big old suckers you see at Neah... I've had to use 6# before to get them down.) Carefully descent them back down to 100' or so of water, and hold them there. You will feel them start to revive. When they start to kick and fight pretty good, give it a short, sharp yank and the clip will pull free.
No spreader on my rig... One less thing to have a problem with.
StreamFixer
:yeahthat: so true.
3weight, I really like that style of descender.
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Never been to Neah Bay (fishing that is) or for that matter shrimping the Hood or PA... Want to... (Hint...!
Hint). I play reasonably well with others, contribute to the success and $$ share for the trip. I will be the first one there and the last to leave (although sometimes folks do not consider that an attribute...lol). I am not inclined to trailer that distance but will surely travel for a crew spot and bring support/safety gear, terminal tackle, bait and 150lbs+ of cubed ice to boot.
Ok I'm back... Now, we do troll up many Hali on the flats from Garibaldi to Neahakani. There are many places in this area in the 120-175 depth range that have plenty of snaggy rock jumbles. Most are within a mile of the Nelalem river. So you can expect a lings or big rocks there as well. Usually from 40-80' you have to worry about submerged tree snags around the mouths of the local rivers. And then there is the area from Pyramid to Three Arch Rocks (60'-180') where the bottom features and topo changes by the second. When we troll... the lines are set 2-3' off the bottom and someone is mended them constantly. However we switched it up this year. Four of the folks I routinely fish with all tagged out on hali this year before September in off the Netarts sand flat/transition zones <70' of water. Seven of those were over 60lbs. Personally, I prefer smaller hali 34"-38" if fishing local... they are abundant in the areas we frequent and eat better, IMHO.
I use my own version of the Mark Mc (Ifish) no fail, double hali dropper rig most days with a shad/black label custom wrapped tacos. Or a single 20-32oz single hook home poured lead heads w/ a slab of something. On the dropper 80-100lb braid for the main, 150-300lb mono, 16/0 circle hooks on the leaders. If mr. big shows there is a good chance he's going in the box. I don't use plastics on hali as a general rule. But we did well this year on the Hali incidentally on light tackle and 4" curlies while fishing for YT rock fish. Our biggest @ 68+lb fell for a 4" motor oil/red flake curly double dropper loop on 40 mono. It was a hoot to see the main snap clean at surface a split second before the gaff was set.
Like 3WT sez.... when your weight contacting the bottom goes thump...thump your probably hali fishing. If your breaking rocks (wack, crack etc.) your probably retying alot. We stay out of the mud... but read the charts and FF closely looking for the mud/hard bottom/gravel transition ambush areas in non traditional fishing spots. When trolling the lines need to be as close to 90 degrees to the boat as possible. That means enough weight to counter act current, wind and your speed. It is important in reducing tangles to weight match your offerings especially when fishing at depth. No spreaders are allowed on my boat. If I am not using my old rebuilt 70's vintage Harrington roller tip, Penn 114 with rock cod handle and rail plate my go to is a Accurate/Penn 501 w/ speed handle on an Ugly Stick, Lite Jigging Stick.
We like to explore several different "uncharted" hali areas ever season. If we strike out, we have our spots we can go to along the way to still get our due including crab. There is still wide areas left to research hali within a few miles outside Garibaldi. Not many folks take nor have the time. While most believe hali migrate some distance to spawn or winter, I believe we have locally resident populations along our coast.
Quote from: Threeweight on December 05, 2015, 09:29:44 PM
Some guys (like Russ) tie up their own dropper rig that allows them to fish multiple hooks and baits without getting tangled. Basically a giant shrimp fly rig. You can do this with really heavy mono, or with blue Tuna! cord. It works well, but it takes some trial and error to figure out how to rig them. Some instructions are on Ifish:
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=196790 (http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=196790)
Zarn trolls off the beach at Tillamook... nice and sandy with no rocks. I would not advise trying that at Neah Bay. Vancouver Techie and his buddy Grant were fishing with me in 2012 when someone trying to do that trolled right over my line as I was fighting a 60# fish. Made for an interesting conversation. Once we got the fish in the boat and them untangled from us, they trolled on off and right into two other boats lines.
I've switched to fishing out of Westport if I'm home from Alaska during halibut times just because it's easier for me.
I've moved to a length of tuna cord with a dropper loop tied into it. I don't remember the lengths right at the minute. From the dropper loop I hang a short leader usually with a large B2 Squid stuffed with yarn that I soak with some sort of scent. I also put a chunk of some sort of bait on the hook. For weight at the bottom end of the tuna cord I started using a pipe jig. Got the chance of either a halibut or a ling cod with that set up. We didn't have any tangle problems with this set up just letting it free spool.
I'm intrigued by this dropper technique. Especially since I've been busy upgrading the split rings and swivels (Snap ring at top, spiral swivel to leader) on all my spreader bars. Thereby making snags even more costly :doh:
Regarding the clack/thump/squish of different bottom compositions: I'm intrigued by the new Downvision units. Has anyone used one for bottom fishing? Seems like a natural for rockfish and lings, but maybe lacks the power/depth for 300-400' depths?
My understanding is that in saltwater (more dense than fresh), the cheap units read great down to 100' or so. The more expensive units with separate sonar "brain" modules to process the data are good to 200-250'. Not much use for deepwater halibut.
I'm planning on being at Neah next year, and happy to let you borrow a sensitive setup like my Trevalas. It really is pretty easy to tell the difference in the kind of bottom you are pounding with a good rod.
3wt, that's about what I figured. I'm strongly considering adding a module to my RayMarine system for rockfish and lings, if nothing else. It might help 'prospect' for those little outcroppings that hold the fish.
I have no issue feeling the bottom composition with my current rod, but am always interested in saving precious time during the little windows of opportunity we have around the tide changes.
Those trevalis rods are really nice. I was looking at one the other day.
Great read and, as always, great information!
Since Shinna and I did swiftsure for the first time last year, (and had a blast), we are a little more confident now. So this is the year for Halibut. Looks like we will be joining you all at the Halibut Fest at Neah.
Looking forward to meeting everyone, and getting some first hand knowledge. Can't wait.
Quote from: HemiGTX on December 08, 2015, 05:11:21 AM
3wt, that's about what I figured. I'm strongly considering adding a module to my RayMarine system for rockfish and lings, if nothing else. It might help 'prospect' for those little outcroppings that hold the fish.
I have no issue feeling the bottom composition with my current rod, but am always interested in saving precious time during the little windows of opportunity we have around the tide changes.
Those trevalis rods are really nice. I was looking at one the other day.
I have had the separate module for Raymarine on a couple of boats my current one being one of those. I've been able to read out past 1000' with it. Out at the SW corner we caught a halibut on the lee side of a bump or edge that I spotted. Marked it, went back for another drift setting up better with the current and limited off of it. It does help....
Has anybody ever tried a "Chum Ball". I stumbled over an article describing how to make them. You just mix your favorite Chum (Catfood?) with masonary sand until it becomes a clay-like consistency. Then you form it around your bait and send it to the bottom. ...or you can also drop the balls by themselves if you are anchored.
The idea is the chum attracts smaller fish which attract the bigger fish.
I have not tried this yet, but I plan to.
The charters (I've not been on one anchored up) in Alaska will often use a 'chum bomb'. Put a bunch of stanky bait in a double paper grocery bag, drop to bottom and bounce a couple of times until they feel the bag has burst.
Get the client's bait onto the bottom quickly as the fish are coming.
I think I would put the mason sand/bait mix in a mesh bag of some sort, or use the grocery bag method. If you are not anchored, the grocery bag might be better as you will tend to drift with the chum. If anchored, perhaps the mesh bag so the source of the scent stays with your location.
StreamFixer
I tried the chum bag out of Sequim a couple years ago. I used a laundry bag and had made up a bunch brine and fish parts to put in the bag. I sent it down with downrigger while we were at anchor. CG was passing by on a couple of floats as we anchored up. No fish, but that is probably due to the natives coming in a week before.
VT
This is a paid advertisement...
Never been to Neah Bay (fishing that is) or for that matter shrimping the Hood or PA... Want to... (Hint...! Hint). I play reasonably well with others, contribute to the success and $$ share for the trip. I will be the first one there and the last to leave (although sometimes folks do not consider that an attribute...lol). I am not inclined to trailer that distance but will surely travel for a crew spot and bring support/safety gear, terminal tackle, bait and 150lbs+ of cubed ice to boot.
Zarn,
I will have room for some shrimping days on my boat, but I am a boat crew member for Neah Bay. We can meetup in Vancouver and head up from there sometime in May.
VT