Repower knowledge base

[HalfCaff]

I think I am getting close to pulling the trigger.  Unfortunately I just missed a great deal I was hipped to by someone on here, but that's life.  Just trying to decide what steering upgrade fits the budget.  I have the old school mechanical steering with feedback right now.  At bare minimum I would go to NFB mechanical, but obviously hydraulic would be even better.  Pretty significant price increase though, comparatively speaking.  If it was a bigger hull and motor there would be no question, but on a 17 with a 90, how much better is it really going to be over NFB? Will I kick myself for cheaping out if I don't do it now? 

[Tom C]

Big price difference, yes. Figure about $300+ for a SeaStar NFB 4.2, and $900+ for a BayStar hydraulic.

The hydraulic will be smoother with less effort, but the other benefit of hydraulic is it allows the motor to be raised on the transom without cutting a new hole for a steering cable to run through.

[HalfCaff]

Big price difference, yes. Figure about $300+ for a SeaStar NFB 4.2, and $900+ for a BayStar hydraulic.

The hydraulic will be smoother with less effort, but the other benefit of hydraulic is it allows the motor to be raised on the transom without cutting a new hole for a steering cable to run through.

I guess TBD whether raising the motor up will be a benefit to me or not. I'm away from the boat for a couple days and don't really have a good pick on my phone of where it is at now.  I heard there may be less maintenance down the road with the hydraulic too but not sure how much stock to put into that.  As evidenced by recent threads on this site, seems they can break too.

[davidsea]

Big price difference, yes. Figure about $300+ for a SeaStar NFB 4.2, and $900+ for a BayStar hydraulic.

The hydraulic will be smoother with less effort, but the other benefit of hydraulic is it allows the motor to be raised on the transom without cutting a new hole for a steering cable to run through.

How long are you planning to keep the boat?   Many owners celebrate the upgrade and wonder why they took so long to go hydraulic - but very, very few regret it.   Especially if you're paying for labor, not a quick/easy job to do the swap, and the value/demand for used mechanical steering is very small.   I had NFB on my last boat, and it was easier than basic push-pull, but in no way a substitute for Baystar.  (If anyone wants my old Arima cable system, it's free....)
  I think it's more likely to have the aft end of the cable freeze up than having an issue with the hydraulics.  Parts are available for both the helm pump and the motor cylinder.   Hoses seem to be a bit fragile, but generally due to , um, misuse?   My maintenance for 3 years has been check the fluid once a year and top up once.    No personal experience, but I understand that the Chinese knock-off hydraulic copies aren't a good solution, and parts would be    a concern.

[HalfCaff]

Big price difference, yes. Figure about $300+ for a SeaStar NFB 4.2, and $900+ for a BayStar hydraulic.

The hydraulic will be smoother with less effort, but the other benefit of hydraulic is it allows the motor to be raised on the transom without cutting a new hole for a steering cable to run through.

How long are you planning to keep the boat?   Many owners celebrate the upgrade and wonder why they took so long to go hydraulic - but very, very few regret it.   Especially if you're paying for labor, not a quick/easy job to do the swap, and the value/demand for used mechanical steering is very small.   I had NFB on my last boat, and it was easier than basic push-pull, but in no way a substitute for Baystar.  (If anyone wants my old Arima cable system, it's free....)

I imagine I'll be keeping this boat for maybe 10 years, until I am at an age where I can start thinking about retirement. But you never know when opportunity or 2-foot-itus will strike.  This is the right size boat for me right now though.  Easy to fish solo (presumably even more so with hydro strearing), big enough for the wife, dog and I and enough room for a friend when needed.  No kids to worry about.  Easy enough to tow and biggest boat that will fit in my boat parking spot in the driveway.  Anything bigger would mean a different residence or moorage.

[Mustard tiger]

Hydraulic 100%.   Well worth the investment. 2nd boat with it now, could not go back. You will not have the problem of cable Seizing over winter. All you need is baystar system.

[Keel-er]

When I was getting ready to replace my steering cable for I think the 4th time I decided it was time to upgrade to hydraulic.  It was on my SR 17 with a Yamaha F90.  It was one of those moments like going from neoprene to breathable waders when I said why didn't I do this sooner. I've got hydraulic on my 19 now with my 140 Tohatsu and love it just as much.

[rp2000r]

If your gonna repower go hydraulic Baystar. Worth every penny and you get some or most back on resale.

[Dai20bt]

1) What criteria do you use to decide it is time?  Hours, maintenance costs, age, run it until it dies?

- since becoming arima 17sr owner 4 years ago, I've discovered a deep joy for fishing in saltwater around San Juan Islands and soon, Canadian waters. I see more time exploring these waters when my son starts driving himself around.
- coming into this season, I've been using 2000 Yamaha 115hp 4 stroke. Got this motor after Evinrude ficht 115 died midway back from Sucia island to Blaine. I was lucky fishing buddy was with me on trip with his own boat. He towed me in.
- the Yami 115 got me back on water same month (middle of covid) so was ecstatic about that, but always felt uneasy about 23 yr old motor on 17-20 mile runs to fish.
- over the winter looked seriously at trading arima in for something aluminum vs repower, thinking it would bring more peace of mind. In the end, decided to repower after learning more about new motor technologies (also helpful that a few local marine techs encouraged me to keep using arima.

2) When you last repowered, what did you start with and what did you go to?  Do you have a particular allegiance to specific brands or models?
- I had no allegiance to brand so was open.  I originally was sold on new Suzuki 115hp with drive by wire, but couldn't after quite came in $6k over budget.
- local Yamaha dealer contacted me day after I was shocked by Suzuki quote about 2023 90hp vmax sho on special.

3) Budget, if you are comfortable sharing
- 12k or less

4) What did you do yourself versus what you paid someone else to do?
- I bought the Yamaha 90vmax sho and saved $$ using existing rigging. I didn't know new motors could be plug and play!
5) What would you do different next time?
- I would first look at newer motors that can connect to existing rigging for cost savings.

6) What caught you by surprise?
- the amazing performance of 90hp motor with 14x15 turbo 1 SS prop. All I knew was 115hp on 17sr. The current setup is more responsive and powerful than 2000 115 motor(I was likely underpropped for past 3 yrs).
- the older 703 control box, standard mechanical cables and gauges work great with new motor!

7) Is there anything specific to know about repowering an Arima versus any other boat?
- propeller selection seems to be important for our stern heavy boats. I think it's worthwhile to test a couple different ones to dial it in.

[HalfCaff]

1) What criteria do you use to decide it is time?  Hours, maintenance costs, age, run it until it dies?

- since becoming arima 17sr owner 4 years ago, I've discovered a deep joy for fishing in saltwater around San Juan Islands and soon, Canadian waters. I see more time exploring these waters when my son starts driving himself around.
- coming into this season, I've been using 2000 Yamaha 115hp 4 stroke. Got this motor after Evinrude ficht 115 died midway back from Sucia island to Blaine. I was lucky fishing buddy was with me on trip with his own boat. He towed me in.
- the Yami 115 got me back on water same month (middle of covid) so was ecstatic about that, but always felt uneasy about 23 yr old motor on 17-20 mile runs to fish.
- over the winter looked seriously at trading arima in for something aluminum vs repower, thinking it would bring more peace of mind. In the end, decided to repower after learning more about new motor technologies (also helpful that a few local marine techs encouraged me to keep using arima.

2) When you last repowered, what did you start with and what did you go to?  Do you have a particular allegiance to specific brands or models?
- I had no allegiance to brand so was open.  I originally was sold on new Suzuki 115hp with drive by wire, but couldn't after quite came in $6k over budget.
- local Yamaha dealer contacted me day after I was shocked by Suzuki quote about 2023 90hp vmax sho on special.

3) Budget, if you are comfortable sharing
- 12k or less

4) What did you do yourself versus what you paid someone else to do?
- I bought the Yamaha 90vmax sho and saved $$ using existing rigging. I didn't know new motors could be plug and play!
5) What would you do different next time?
- I would first look at newer motors that can connect to existing rigging for cost savings.

6) What caught you by surprise?
- the amazing performance of 90hp motor with 14x15 turbo 1 SS prop. All I knew was 115hp on 17sr. The current setup is more responsive and powerful than 2000 115 motor(I was likely underpropped for past 3 yrs).
- the older 703 control box, standard mechanical cables and gauges work great with new motor!

7) Is there anything specific to know about repowering an Arima versus any other boat?
- propeller selection seems to be important for our stern heavy boats. I think it's worthwhile to test a couple different ones to dial it in.

You and I have basically the same boat - I am also in an 87 Sea Ranger.  If you make it up to Vancouver Island this season maybe they can have a play date.

  I bit the bullet today and put the deposit down on a repower for mine too.  Going with a Honda 100, and as per consensus going to hydraulic steering in the process.  I was thinking Suzuki originally too, but the cost for controls and gauges vs the fact that they are included in the Honda price made the difference.  Also the fact I can source the Honda through my local marine mechanic, who has serviced this boat for 15 years before I bought it.  The Zuki I would have had to pay more and tow about 2 hours down the highway both for the install and ongoing service.  Worth it to me to maintain relationships with the local guy I know and trust - as they say, you can't buy experience. 

And hey, it won't be the first Arima rolling with a Honda main - won't even be the first Honda on this boat, since as mentioned earlier in this thread its an older carbed 75hp Honda coming off.

[Dai20bt]

Congratulations on the repower! You are going to enjoy it and not regret it. I finally had time after work yesterday to experience how my reborn SR would do on 15 mile run for lingcod opener. As I said earlier, you'll have no regrets:) It feels like a new boat to me as I was cruising 23mph at 3900rpm in smooth water. I feel like I'm riding higher out of the water also! The splash issue I had last summer after installing lenco trim tabs has disappeared. I thought my diy install was causing a lot of splashing hitting my fully tilted kicker. The 90vmax sho with turbo 1 prop is generating more stern lift to resolve that annoyance. Cruising at 23mph vs 17 feels huge to me in time savings to destination. So glad I repowered! Then to top it off, brought dinner home to the fam:)

[Tom C]

I bit the bullet today and put the deposit down on a repower for mine too.  Going with a Honda 100...

The BF100 is an excellent choice. Just be sure the dealer/mechanic does not mount the motor too low on the transom.

[HalfCaff]

I bit the bullet today and put the deposit down on a repower for mine too.  Going with a Honda 100...

The BF100 is an excellent choice. Just be sure the dealer/mechanic does not mount the motor too low on the transom.

Weird, I swear I responded to this comment yesterday and posted successfully but those posts appear to be gone?  Anyway, I will have the mounting height discussion with my mechanic, who is also who I am getting the motor through.  He did not mount my current motor, but that is mounted one hole up (ie 2nd hole from the top).  I've not put a straight edge on the hull to see where the cavitation plate is in relation yet, but I can do so.  I suspect he will mount the new one in the same position unless I specifically request otherwise - but as I said haven't talked to him about it yet.

[Tom C]

Weird, I swear I responded to this comment yesterday and posted successfully but those posts appear to be gone?

You did, and they are. Somebody deleted them.

[HalfCaff]

Weird, I swear I responded to this comment yesterday and posted successfully but those posts appear to be gone?

You did, and they are. Somebody deleted them.

Yeah, and I think I know why.  I'll keep the comments to the technical aspects of the discussion.

[Tom C]

One other thing I forgot to mention, the BF100 requires 91 octane fuel, whereas the BF90 only needs 86 octane.

Depending on where you fuel your boat, that may be something to consider.

The difference in top speed between the two models would be slightly less than 2 MPH between the two.

[HalfCaff]

One other thing I forgot to mention, the BF100 requires 91 octane fuel, whereas the BF90 only needs 86 octane.

Depending on where you fuel your boat, that may be something to consider.

The difference in top speed between the two models would be slightly less than 2 MPH between the two.

Yes I am aware of that.  Also weighs a couple pounds more than the 90.  Weirdly, the price is better on the 100 than the 90, so that's the plan.  Vast majority of time I fuel the boat at the station nearest my house, which sells 91 marked no ethanol. For now - sounds like no ethanol gas is on borrowed time here in Canada.  The only time it might become a problem is when I go cruising or stay at a marina that only offers 87.  I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[amazing grace]

i have not read all of this thread. I recall Davidsea talking about this iirc. My recollection is the 100hp is a smaller litter than the 90hp. Make sure you know what you are getting in the 100hp model. The 90hp might be a better fit than the 100hp, I could be wrong on this, but don't think so. 

If I am correct it can be a bit like splitting a 30" round of firewood with a splitting maul vs and splitting axe. One is way better suited for the task than the other.

If I am not correct about the 100 vs 90 plz disregard and congrats on the new power. 

[Tom C]

The Honda BF75, BF90, and BF100 are, like a lot of outboards, based on the same motor, with different power outputs coming from different ECU programming. It may be the BF100 has a more advanced timing setting, along with greater air input, so more prone to detonation, hence the need for high octane fuel.

[DARice]

When I glanced at the tables that included torque last week, I don't think there was a material difference between the 90 and the 100. May be worth a look. But if the 100 is less expensive and the only penalty for running 87 octane is less power, seems attractive.

Dave

[Tom C]

But if the 100 is less expensive and the only penalty for running 87 octane is less power, seems attractive.

I would not assume less power is the only penalty. Knock sensors *can* work great, but long term use? Don't want to fry a brand new $10k outboard.

[Tom C]

Here is a timely comment from a different web site yesterday:

Here is what a dealer told me he is selling a 2022 BF 100. I asked if using less than 91 was detrimental to anything other than performance
It doesn't like it long term. The previous owner tried to and we had to do an internal carbon clean It ran fine after that.
He then swapped to the 90 because he couldn't get 91 easily enough where he boated.

[HalfCaff]

Here is a timely comment from a different web site yesterday:

Here is what a dealer told me he is selling a 2022 BF 100. I asked if using less than 91 was detrimental to anything other than performance
It doesn't like it long term. The previous owner tried to and we had to do an internal carbon clean It ran fine after that.
He then swapped to the 90 because he couldn't get 91 easily enough where he boated.

The key words here I think are "long term".  My mechanic doesn't seem to think running the odd tank of 87 if no other option will hurt it, and he would be the one that  has to service it if it does.  This is  a trailer boat, and 91 is readily available at normal gas stations in my area.  Probably the only time I will have a problem is if I go for a multi day trip and am depending on  marina fuel, and even there I think a lot of them have 91 around here.  I have even thought about carrying some "octane boost" as a work around,but would need to do some research on that.  The mechanic didn't think it was necessary.

[Tom C]

I don't disagree, but as always, I make these comments not because I'm trying to dissuade you, but for the benefit of others reading along now, or in the future while doing research. It's just something to be aware of.

[HalfCaff]

I don't disagree, but as always, I make these comments not because I'm trying to dissuade you, but for the benefit of others reading along now, or in the future while doing research. It's just something to be aware of.

Yep, not dismissing the advice at all.  Just noting that I have considered it and I think I'm making an informed choice.  Definitely could be useful info for someone else in the future, which was the intent of the thread after all.