Hi I just had bad news about my 2006 60 Etec with just over a hundred hours the bottom cylinder has no compression the honest trustworthy repair man is looking for a reconditioned power head. I am torn between fixing the etec that I worry I will never have confidence in and getting something new that I would come with a warranty? My thoughts are I like the way my hunter performs with the etec but friends which have had Evinrudes and other brands have all ended up and Yamaha's . I would perfer to not spend that much money if I thought the repaired etec would be dependable?
As I posted on another thread, I think the Honda 60 would be perfect on that boat. No...I don't sell these things. I've simply had such good luck with these Hondas in the past, that I feel compelled to pass it on. You did seem to be concerned about dependability, correct? If that's the case, I don't think you could do any better.
Yat
Wow a 100 hours and a dead cylinder. What is your mechanics thoughts on the failure? I would have a hard time putting very much money in a 12 year old engine. I would take a look at the Yamaha F70, my 2017 has close to 400 hours with zero issues. :twocents:
2003 EF 115 Yamaha -- No problems other than replace injectors ($75 if I do it) every other year or so... Sure see a lot of Yamaha's on the water. I would see what the guides are using and use that as my indicator --- Their livelihood depends on their motor... Most I know and see are using Yammi's (mostly Columbia River and Oregon Coast)
That being said, the general consensus of our members has been to purchase the motor your most reliable dealer/maintenance person recommends. A great motor that does not have convenient and/or reliable service available will inevitably be a problem (PITA) for you.
StreamFixer
For the record-- I have no fiduciary connection to Yamaha except what is invested in my motors (main and kicker)
That is really low hours for a dead cylinder! I don't think you can go wrong with Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki, all high quality four strokes.
100 hours in 12 years sounds like it died from lack of use.How much is a new powerhead?Is your mechanic a certified etec mechanic that services them all the time or just an outboard mechanic?There is a big difference from my experience.No new motor comes with 12 year warranty and with the amount of hours you put on a motor you will be long out of warranty before you have problems.If the fix is say 2500 I would fix it and use it more and de carb it once a year.If it is more than that bite the bullet and spend close to 10,000 on a rigged up Yamaha.
I would treat it with SeaFoam and take another compression test myself....just to be sure.
Sometimes things get stuck with non use.
:wink:
Have you "winterized" it often ??
Good suggestion Croaker. But 100 hrs in 12 years? That could be bad for any motor :shrug9:
Yes. Non-use can mess things up. But I have seen over zealous mechanics repair things that were not broke.
An Etec has a computerized "winterization" that oils all the internal parts for extended storage. My boat is sitting now after being winterized.
It is accomplished by simply starting the boat with the fast idle throttle all the way open. Red dash lights come on and go off and then you close the throttle. Lights come on/off again and you open the fast-idle again. The motor automatically oils itself for extended storage and shuts off when complete. Then you're all set for the winter.
I winterize mine if I am not using it for over two weeks. :beerchug: I figure a little extra oil can't hurt.... It does smoke a bit until that oil is burned off.
Croaker, do you even have a winter in So. Cal? You mean you summerize your boat :shrug9: 😎
I love this forum so much good advise in such a short time :beerchug: The diagnosis bothers me a bit as the motor has so few hours and the manner which it quit , it just slowly died from 4500 and to me it seemed like a fuel problem like if it had a portable tank and I had forgot to open the vent. It died like this three times , the first time I just went out again and it ran fine, the next time to a certified etec mechanic (500$) for plugs,fuel filter and computer diagnostic. This time I took it to the mechanic who services my son's fleet :biggrin: Thanks Croaker I will get something sprayed in the cylinder and have another compression test, the fact that it ran at normal revs after each failure makes me agree that something (rings?) is sticking. I have only owned it since the spring and have only had time to get out a few times its history was Columbia river use so I thought even with little use it would OK because of the fresh water?
If it turns out that the powerhead is fryed I agree with Omega 3 spend 2500 to fix or buy new if the wife who does not fish allows.
It may be in need of a carb cleaning/rebuild. However I wouldn't do that until you check the compression again. It just seems funny to me that it would run fine, quit, and then run fine again. Maybe in need of a good carbon cleaning. I like Mercury powertune for that but there are others as long as you can get the motor running. I'm sure you've already tried fresh gas. Maybe check the compression yourself this time and post the numbers
The only problem I have had with my motor is very similar to what you are describing.I had a pin hole in the fuel pump lift diaphram.I took it to 2 different Evinrude shops,each said they fixed it and failed.I ended up taking it back to where I bought the boat,Inland Boats in Ellensburg.I live in Tacoma so 120 miles one way.John,who runs the place is the best Etec guy around.I dropped the boat of at 7 am.At 2 pm the boat was fixed and has 2000 hrs with no problems.1 day turn around when 2 other shops had failed.If Ellensburg is within a 3 hour drive that's where I would take it.
I was in your neighbourhood Monday Woolly Bully and I caught the 7am ferry from Vancouver Island so he could buy a very slightly used Hunter with a old two stroke Yamaha in Edgewood I hope he has better luck than me. It costs 200$ each way with a boat in tow on the ferry so I unfortunately will not be able to take it to your mechanic.
Tight lines Tom
Quote from: Fisherdv on January 27, 2018, 10:34:54 AM
It may be in need of a carb cleaning/rebuild. However I wouldn't do that until you check the compression again. It just seems funny to me that it would run fine, quit, and then run fine again. Maybe in need of a good carbon cleaning. I like Mercury powertune for that but there are others as long as you can get the motor running. I'm sure you've already tried fresh gas. Maybe check the compression yourself this time and post the numbers
:yeahthat:
Quote from: Salmon King on January 27, 2018, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: Fisherdv on January 27, 2018, 10:34:54 AM
It may be in need of a carb cleaning/rebuild. However I wouldn't do that until you check the compression again. It just seems funny to me that it would run fine, quit, and then run fine again. Maybe in need of a good carbon cleaning. I like Mercury powertune for that but there are others as long as you can get the motor running. I'm sure you've already tried fresh gas. Maybe check the compression yourself this time and post the numbers
:yeahthat:
ETEC...no carbs.
Take Croakers advice, he has the same motor. But I do agree that a bit more trouble shooting may be a good idea. Maybe you could be a bit more specific on how the motor was running before it died each time. If was running normally after each incident it makes me think something else is the problem. Fuel pump? Injectors from sitting so long?
Croaker...I was unaware if the 2006 model had carb or not...
Thank you!
And yes...I totally agree with your recommendation!
SeaFoam works wonders.
I hope the motor is not fried. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I've heard that happen on E tech motors .and two strokes in genaral.
Just happened to a guy I know .
Said one day it was running rough and then he checked compression and had none in one cylinder.
This guy ran his his boat quite a bit.
I think for me it would depend how much it was to repair .
Over 3000 bucks I wouldn't do it .
I would get a Yamaha .
If you do buy a heavier 4 stroke just make sure you budget for trim tabs, moving the battery, etc to compensate for the additional weight. Many threads on people having to do that to balance their boat with a 4 stroke instead of the lighter 2 stroke.
Habberdasher: If you don't mind; what year is your Evinrude 60 Etec? Also, is it a two or three cylinder motor?
Yat
Quote from: Yachter Yat on January 28, 2018, 10:57:36 AM
Habberdasher: If you don't mind; what year is your Evinrude 60 Etec? Also, is it a two or three cylinder motor?
Yat
>>>>
Quote from: Habberdasher on January 27, 2018, 06:32:57 AM
Hi I just had bad news about my 2006 60 Etec......
Hi
Yat the motor is a 2006 and 2 cylinder. Tomorrow I will go and pick up my boat as I have some projects to work on I will get a compression tester and some sea foam and see for myself before I let him order me a power head. Our Yamaha dealer has a camp return 2016 50 for what seems a good price. I really are not a speed demon anymore but do you all think a 50 is enough power for a hunter? The specs say the Yamaha is infact 3 pounds lighter than my etec.
50 should be a good match for the hunter. I wouldn't go any less.
Is that a 2016 Yamaha F50? Pretty much the same engine as the F70 with a different head.
I would go for it. :twocents:
:yeahthat:
Being the gearhead I am,I would Deep Creep the cylinders and check the fuel pump.Then compresion test.A whole powerhead for one of only 2 pistons is not needed.It's a 2 stroke simple.Replace both pistons and rings.At 100 hours that thing is like new.A good mechanic should be able to tear that small motor down,hone the cylinders and put it back together in 10 hours.
:yeahthat: You would think! Right??
Quote from: sfever on January 28, 2018, 10:22:58 AM
If you do buy a heavier 4 stroke just make sure you budget for trim tabs, moving the battery, etc to compensate for the additional weight. Many threads on people having to do that to balance their boat with a 4 stroke instead of the lighter 2 stroke.
In brand new motors, an Etec 60 weighs 240 pounds, a Yamaha F60/F70 weighs 257# (the "high output" Etec 60 weights 320). An Etec 90 is 320 pounds and a 4 stroke Suzuki 90 is 341, Honda 90 359... the weight advantages of two strokes are not that big these days.
The reason to move weight forward is that Arima's carry their fuel, batteries, main motor and kicker all on the stern. Not so much a heavy motor issue as a design issue (though heavy motors certainly don't help).
Are we talking about powering a Sea Hunter? If so, the Honda 60 is the "lightest" of all.............239 lbs.! :wink: Keep in mind, that boat is rated for 80 HP max. BTW, unlike the 2 cylinder 240 lb. Etec..........the Honda is 3 cylinders. The "high output" Etec 60 HP 3 cylinder is...................What?.........320 lbs.? This is a no-brainer.
Yat
Today's update The mechanic used a scope to look inside the cylinder and can see melted aluminum. We have now talked about tearing down the motor to inspect the damage and he said that might be about $500 labour? at that point if it is reparable maybe another $ 1500 so about all I should spend on it. I wonder if there might be any market for a Mechanic's special or parts motor. If it needs a power head it is not worth it as the motor value is about 3000 the same as the part. I went to see the Yamaha dealer however he is closed on Monday so I will tomorrow. I am open to any more advise but I am leaning toward a camp return or new Yamaha 50
Gee's, that's $2K right off the bat and you know it will probably go above that all said and done. I'd probably lean twords your other options if you can :twocents:
Ugh. I was hoping for a simple fix.
Quote from: Habberdasher on January 29, 2018, 02:58:49 PM
Today's update The mechanic used a scope to look inside the cylinder and can see melted aluminum. We have now talked about tearing down the motor to inspect the damage and he said that might be about $500 labour? at that point if it is reparable maybe another $ 1500 so about all I should spend on it. I wonder if there might be any market for a Mechanic's special or parts motor. If it needs a power head it is not worth it as the motor value is about 3000 the same as the part. I went to see the Yamaha dealer however he is closed on Monday so I will tomorrow. I am open to any more advise but I am leaning toward a camp return or new Yamaha 50
Yours is the first eTec I've ever heard of self destructing!
Sounds like it's time for a repower :facepalm:
At those estimates and whatever other things that will inevitably pop up IMHO it's not worth the effort.
I'd ask the mechanic about him buying it for parts or part it out on CL or eBay.
The lower unit alone, if it's in like new condition, would be $750-$800.
:twocents:
The Computer (EMM?) are $500.
Gotta ask... what's a camp return? rental fleet ? :shrug9:
Trash or trouser its all how you might look at it. :wink:
In areas where fishing lodges are common (with guides in-house, or boats you can rent) they often lease their outboard motors for a few years, then return them and swap out for a brand new engine.
Those lease returns then get re-sold by the dealers as "camp returns".
Quote from: Yachter Yat on January 27, 2018, 06:42:20 AM
As I posted on another thread, I think the Honda 60 would be perfect on that boat. No...I don't sell these things. I've simply had such good luck with these Honda's in the past, that I feel compelled to pass it on. You did seem to be concerned about dependability, correct? If that's the case, I don't think you could do any better.
Yat
[/quote
Should be a fun day the one that doesn't fish is playing Mah Jongg so I am going shopping Yat, in Canada the 60 Honda is 8,800 boat show price and the Yamaha 60 is 10,149 before any discount, We have a dealer here that sells both and I have a High School buddy who is a salesman there who should be pretty knowledgeable having been a guide for a long time so I should get a good comparison. The guides here mostly run Yamaha and my son has a few of them (Too Many toys!!). --- I forgot to click on post so fast forward to this afternoon I found two different Yamaha 50's one got dunked in the salt chuck when brand new and has had everthing replaced that the salt would effect at a cost of 1700 it is 5500 and comes with controls but no prop with a warranty until Feb 2020 the other is a Camp return with 200 hrs no controls or prop for 5600 and warranty until March 2019. I am inclined toward the one that got dunked as I had a dunked in salt motor that had no issues and if anything was to go wrong its under warranty and the dealer is going to cover anything related to salt damage.
IMO I would stay away from any engine that was submerged. Who is the warranty with? I think being submerged is in the fine print that voids the warranty.
:twocents:
Chief makes some good points. Whatever you do, make sure you get a warrantee in writing. What you want to avoid is getting into a "he said" argument down the road. Remember the old saying: "Even the most faded document is better than the most vivid memory".
Yat
Read the fine print on that warranty... does it cover computer/electrical? Was the ECM, entire electrical system, all wiring, and all fuel system components (right down to the fuel injectors) replaced? That's $2000-3000 worth of components, at dealer cost.
If not, run, don't walk, away from a modern engine that was submerged in the salt.
One observation on your Etec... 2 strokes historically relied on fuel for lubrication, and with older designs this was their achilies heel for longevity. Fueling problems (gummed up carb running too lean, etc...) could cause catastrophic failure as the engine would then run with no lube until things went boom.
The Etec design is a big improvement, as it eliminates the mixing of fuel/oil/air prior to hitting the combustion chamber, and instead injects the oil directly into the chamber through a system that is separate from the fuel injection. I'd be curious if there was a failure of some kind in the oil injection system on your cooked cylinder, causing it to run with no lubrication.
IMHO there are too many ways for water to create problems on the newer motors to ever want one dunked. Not to mention the whole hydro lock issue that can leave components stressed but not failed. I want 1 thing from a boat ENG...100% reliability.
100 % reliable engine of any kind does not exsist.The web is full of pages of guys having problems with engines of all brands and models.
Aaaah........excuse me, Omega. Oh........never mind.
Yat
Quote from: ATGEP on January 31, 2018, 11:15:02 AM
IMHO there are too many ways for water to create problems on the newer motors to ever want one dunked. Not to mention the whole hydro lock issue that can leave components stressed but not failed. I want 1 thing from a boat ENG...100% reliability.
+1
Newer motors are computerized. (Think of dunking your iPhone)
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on January 31, 2018, 09:52:44 PM
Quote from: ATGEP on January 31, 2018, 11:15:02 AM
IMHO there are too many ways for water to create problems on the newer motors to ever want one dunked. Not to mention the whole hydro lock issue that can leave components stressed but not failed. I want 1 thing from a boat ENG...100% reliability.
+1
Newer motors are computerized. (Think of dunking your iPhone)
Thanks guys I won't be buying the dunked motor. Yesterday I found a backyard actually looks like a scrap yard who sounded extremely knowledgeable he had the power head off in under three hours and has quoted 800 to finish fixing it and I pay for the parts he has found on the web kits to repair the injector and says the cylinder is washed? So he is going to have it bored and put a very slightly bigger piston? All Greek to me but worth the gamble
I think he means the piston ran without lubrication, which probably resulted in both a melted piston and a scored cylinder wall. He's going to replace the injector(s) for that cylinder, bore out the cylinder slightly oversize, then rebuild using a larger piston. Hopefully the crankshaft and bearings are still good.
I am curious what caused that. Lean burn caused by bad injector? Previous owner ran the oil dry ? Overheat ?
The printout should tell the story ??
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on February 01, 2018, 04:32:39 PM
I am curious what caused that. Lean burn caused by bad injector? Previous owner ran the oil dry ? Overheat ?
The printout should tell the story ??
The printout that was just before the last failure didn't show any problems I think you are right that he feels it was a bad injector don't think the oil was ever dry or ever overheated as that would have shown in the printout?
Etec will go into fail safe mode if oil is low.
Well the Etec is hooped bearings and possible warped block anyway the mechanic says it is not rebuidable.
Now I have to decide between the two Yamaha 50's one with 200 hours and one with no hours but been for a swim but will have a written warranty. Or either a new Honda or Yamaha 60 the new ones are about the same price with controls etc at 8700 Canadian and the fifty's about 62-6500 ? I have lately driven Acuras and Hondas with no problems so I am leaving toward the Honda like Yats
That seems to be a good price for the Honda 60. I have that motor also. Weight is about 250#
Geez. That had to be a catastrophic failure. Hot enough to warp the block ? You would think that would show up on the print out ?
Rebuilt powerhead from Crowley is $2200.Basically a new block bored .020 over.Might want to take a look at them
If you can afford it, I'd go with either the new Honda or Yamaha. Good motors with full warranty and known reliability.
Which brand would come down to me on which dealer has a better service department and rep.
The old motor is worth $$$. Lots of usable parts there. The EMM, The injectors, the lower unit, the cowling, flywheel cover, intermediate cover, starter, etc.etc.etc.
I am just about there in my quest to make the right repowering decision the cheapest motor is the dunked
50 Yamaha but I am ticked with the salesman who I asked for a firm quote three days ago and I am still waiting. Then I come to the 50/60 Hondas the 50 is 1200$ cheaper than the 60 quite a bit lighter and comes complete including prop . My only concern is my etec was a 60 and I worry I might miss the 10 HP ? I don't load up the boat too much and my get home motor is very light ?
My :twocents:, will you miss the power you had? Probably. It's always more noticeable going from more to less HP than less to more. I think the Honda BFP60 power thrust, with the larger gear case and lower gear ratio would be perfect on your boat. I have that same motor on my 16 SC and I would not want any less. On my 16 with a 4-blade prop and light load I can get on plane in 6 seconds and WOT at 30 mph. The Honda BFP60 also runs larger size props than the BF60 so you get more torque down low where it's most needed. A 13.25x13 4-blade prop should be perfect. Weight difference between it and the 50HP is about 40 or so pounds. The BFP60 also has more charging output than the BF60
Habberdasher:
If you will, let me offer some advice on the Honda choices as well. The 50 and 60 are quite different motors. In reality, the 10 horses is the least of the differences. Before the 60, I ran the Honda 45 for over 20 seasons. Despite the fact that it struggled a bit when we had 4 people on board, it actually did quite well with just my wife and myself. Being a "square" engine, (with both the bore and stroke at 2.8 inches) resulted in a smooth running motor; something you don't often see in the newer models. As we all know, the new 50 is fuel injected. Being so, it should provide a "slight" improvement in performance over the 45 in some respects. That said, it's still the same block as the 45, with the same 49.3 cubic inches. The 60 (with a displacement of 61 cubic inches) is a different animal. Although we have no factory specs by which to compare, there's no doubt the 60 has a considerable amount of additional torque...and torque is what you need in a boat like the Arima. As I've said many times: HP is something you brag about...torque is something you feel. If you ever had the occasion to run the two blocks, as I have, you'd see what I mean. For me, going from one to the other was quite surprising.......kinda like night and day, as they say. Despite the fact that the 60 is just a tiny bit noisier than the 45, it was a small price to pay for the enormous increase in overall performance.
Yes, I'm running the 16 SC, but if I had a Sea Hunter, I would still opt for the 60 Honda. I think you'll find that additional torque will make things a lot more pleasurable. You'll have a much greater RPM operating range and won't find yourself playing "throttle jockey" with every other approaching roller. Not only that, but as with my experience so far, you'd be surprised to discover a slight improvement in fuel economy over the smaller block.
Yat
If you plan on keeping that boat for a while the extra $1200 for the 60 would probably be worth it. You could easily spend over $1200 on other boat related accessories. Either of the Honda 60's would be a great choice.