Looking for 2003+ 4 Stroke 115

[mariner]

I am looking for a well maintained 115HP 4 Stroke years 2003+.  If anyone has recently repowered or is thinking of repowering let me know what you have and how much you would want for it.  I have a 1998 Suzuki DT140 2 stroke is good condition that I want to repower to a 4 stroke.  Would be interested in a swap + cash for a newer 4 Stroke as well.  Please PM me if you want to chat.  Thanks.

[mariner]

For those of you who repowered with a used 4 stroke 115, 135 or 140, how long did you have to wait until a well maintained motor became available, especially one with a 20" shaft?

[Markshoreline]

Hopefully you are checking with boat shops such as Performance Marine in Everett, Jacobsens' in Edmonds and Master Marine in Mt Vernon.  Since they sell new they take trade ins for resale.
Also Boat Trader and Craigslist may be fruitful.  Good luck in your search.

[mariner]

I assumed boat dealers would post on craigslist any preowned tradeins they receive.   Just called 2 dealers and they both confirmed they post on craigslist when they receive tradeins as they want them gone pretty fast. 

[Chief of the Boat]

IMO I would be cautious of buying a trade-in engine with no manufactures warranty left.  There is usually a story on why they traded in vice selling it on craigslist.  Buyer beware!

[Markshoreline]

I definitely prefer to buy new motors for exactly the reasons Chief mentioned.  However, reputable shops check out trade ins and sell the ones they think are good.  Perhaps some dealers provide limited time warranties?  It would be worth asking.

[mariner]

What are everyones thoughts on lease returns?  There are dealers near me who get lease returns on Mercury and Yamaha outboards used for 2 years by fishing charters.  They have about 1500-2000 hrs with 80% of those hrs below 1000 rpm for trolling.   They are priced 30-35% off from new. 

[Keel-er]

I think that if you are talking about one of the Japanese manufacturer motors and you can get a leakdown test performed and maybe inspected by someone knowledgeable, then I think you would lower the risk of buying a lemon.  Also, if the manufacturers (Honda, Suzuki, Tohatsu) are leveraging the design architecture for their car motors then they should be long-lived with proper maintenance.  You always run some risk when buying something used.

[Keel-er]

I am basing my comments on what I have learned of the Japanese quality systems and processes for controlling design and manufacturing, which they learned from us!  That and their cars going 250,000+ miles with proper maintenance.  Don't know how that would translate into outboard engine hours but shows reliability.

[beancounter]

30-35% isn't much of a discount if they have 1500-2000 hours.

[FWilliams]

I don't know if a 30 percent break for that many hours would be a deal. I would make sure that the charter had  all the service work  done by them with records. when I was around the outboard business it was negotiated as part of the lease agreement. some took better care of their stuff than others .

[Keel-er]

What does the manufacturer typically claim for lifetime hours of a 115?

[Markshoreline]

I'm not aware of outboard mfgrs stating how long their products will last just as auto mfgrs don't.  There are too many variables about use/abuse/maintenance that affect durability to be able to state longevity.  There's plenty of word of mouth comments however that indicate modern 4 strokes can run over 4,000 hours, however.

[Threeweight]

I think lack of maintenance and owner abuse are what kills most well designed/built 4 stroke engines these days.  In a marine environment, maintenance takes on a whole other order of magnitude of importance.  The Coast Guard squeezes 4000-5000 hours out of Honda 225's, but they do it with religious maintenance by guys who have been trained to maintain those motors.

I would be nervous about a motor with that many hours unless it was steeply discounted, and I could talk to the previous owner about how it was maintained.

To give some perspective with the car motor analogy, if you figure 1 hour = 60 miles on a car, an outboard with 1500 hours has the equivalent of 90,000 miles on it. 

[mariner]

Thanks for everyone's comments.... WHile they do have high hours of usage on them, the lease contracts require the charter companies to maintain the engines with timely maintenance.   As part of the lease they are issued plugs, filters and fluids for the maintenance.  I would assume the dealers work on ensuring the maintenance is done so that they can get motors back that are in good shape that they can sell once again. 

These charters don't use kickers and so they use the main to get to the fishing spots and for trolling.  The engine printouts will reveal that 80% of the hours are under 1000 rpms since they are trolling and I would safely guess more closer to 700-800 RPMs as this is likely the trolling speed.

We tend to correlate hours on a motor to it's useful life remaining... But if you think about useful life(assuming maintenance has been done), we are talking about wear and tear of engine parts due to friction that even the best oils can't eliminate.  Over time, the friction between parts wears the parts down and makes them less effective at what each part was built to do.  So, if an engine has 2000 hrs, 80% of which are at 800rpm, then it should have the equivalent wear and tear to an engine that has 720hrs that is run at 4,000 RPM(cruising speed).

Math:
2000 hrs x 80% = 1600 hrs at trolling speed (800rpm)
2000 hrs x 20% = 400 hrs at cruising speed(4,000 rpm)

800rpm x 60min x 1600 hrs = 76,800,000 engine revolution cycles
4000rpm x 60 min x 400 hrs = 96,000,000 engine revolution cycles
total= 172,800,000 engine revolution cycles

Engine that does no trolling and cruises at 4,000 rpm
172,800,000 engine revolution cycles divided by 60 mins divided by 4000rpm = 720 hrs

So these 2 year lease return engines with 2000 hrs has the equivalent wear to an engine that runs at 4K RPM for 720 hrs..

So if I can find a lease return with 1500 hrs instead of 2000 hrs then it should be equivalent to 540 hrs which isn't that bad... correct?  Is my logic flawed?

[Fisherdv]

What year boat and size are you putting it on? What's the condition of your boat? To me 30% off for a motor that's (let's just say) has half of its life left may not be worth it. You would always have in the back of your mind thinking of just how it was maintained not knowing for sure. If your boat is in good condition and your planning on keeping it a while and use it often it may be worth the few thousand more for a new motor and the peace of mind knowing that "you" know exactly how it has been maintained  :twocents:

[mariner]

The lease returns are 99% gone anyways so there isn't a lot left to choose from.  I will see if there are any deals later on in the year for new as this is my preference as well.  If I do go the lease return route next year I will keep everyone informed on my experience and whether it was worth it.  thanks for the feedback.

[polarbill1999]

I would want closer to 70% off for a lease return with 1500+ hours.  The second you own it that is what it will be worth, if not less.

[Fisherdv]

How would you know the actual true hours on a stand alone motor. On an EFI motor would the ECM store that data to be read by a network or a diagnostic scan? What about a non EFI motor?

[Markshoreline]

Those guide motors could be great deals, but you have to wonder why don't they just keep them for two more years....?

[Threeweight]

ECM stores hours.  On my Honda (and my old Suzuki) when you turn the key "on" and the engine beeps an does it's self test, the tach needle will jump up to show hours (2k RPM = 200 hours).  If you have digital gauges, or the engine networked, you can display precise hours (like 297.4).