Anybody have any good tips for preserving chinook with a foodsaver. ?
I fillet the Salmon straight out of a cooler full of ice, rinse, then lightly pat dry the fish. You can also pre-spice the fish before sealing. This works very well when Sous Vide cooking the Salmon. I love smoked Salmon but Sous Vide is great to. Just drop in a pre-spiced vacuum sealed bag in the water. 1 hour at 140*.
Get a good one. I have a food saver and it does OK for Salmon, but it's not the best. I will always have a few bags of the batch lose their seal and get freezer burned.
I would eventually like to invest in a better quality vacuum sealer.
I've started to wrap my filets in saran wrap freeze them, and then vacuum seal the filets.
Seems to work for me.
Place you filets on a cookie sheet with plastic wrap on the bottom. Place some plastic wrap on top and place in the fridge. Chilling before freezing allows them to freeze faster when placed in the freezer and keeps the water in the fillet more evenly distributed. So once fully chilled in the fridge (about 4 hrs), move them to the freezer.
Once frozen, then vacuum seal.
I agree that chilling then freezing before sealing has proved the best for keeping fish in the best condition. I had a regular food saver for a long time. I started double bagging because I found the leaking issue too.
1. Chill fish
2. Freeze
3. Place in vacuum bag and vacuum/extended seal
4. Place bag in another bag and vacuum/seal
Ended up getting a much better sealer and saved money on the extra bags.
Of course, if the kids know there's fresh salmon I don't have to worry about how I'm going to preserve it....it's all gone.
I have Cabela's commercial grade sealer that I bought quite awhile ago and it works pretty darn good. When sealing salmon I use the 4.5 x 5" heavy duty 6 mil Bone Guard sheets that prevent those front end rib bones from puncturing the bag. They come 150 sheets to a box. I think I got them from Cabela's also, good investment.
the prob with a food saver type sealer is that it sucks to seal. So you must first par freeze your meat first, ideally wrapped in saran wrap as mentioned above ut not the reason why. Dont ever rinse your fillets in fresh water. If you have to wipe it with a damp cloth or knife with the grain to clean off a scale or whatever. Best to pack it raw and if you feel the need to wash it before eating then do it after defrost before cooking.
If you have a bunch of nice fillets you might be better off taking them to a fish market and paying a few bucks for them to pack for you with a chamber vac sealer.
In our house fresh frozen salmon lasts years...smoked never makes it to the next season. Just found 2 frozen packs from 2014 in the bottom of the freezer. Now, we eat what we can fresh then smoke the rest.
Chamber vac will happen if it ever goes on sale at costco...
I had a foodsaver brand for one season then upgraded to a much better option that's been running reliably for about 10 years now, it's a VacPro brand (can't seem to find them any more). There are 2 tricks I've discovered to keep fillets from freezer burning:
- Fold down the top inch or so of the bag before you slide the fish in. That keeps any moisture or slime off of the seal area, a big cause of seal failure.
- Double seal the open end. Pull the bag down a bit after the first seal and give it another shot. With 2 seals I haven't had any spoilage.
For freshness, rinse your fillets as little as possible, and if you're fishing salt water try to avoid rinsing altogether. Wiping down with paper towels should be all you need to clean things up prior to freezing, and if you're keeping everything properly chilled after bonking there shouldn't be any cause for harmful bacteria to grow. Rinse your knife, not the meat.
If no rinsing, how do you get all the blood, scales and slime etc off of the fillets after filleting?
I vacuum pack hundreds of lbs of rockfish every year.
I sell the fish so I've set my procedure set up to supply the best product.
While I understand the tips I will recommend might not be feasible for everybody I'll tell you anyway.
First thing:
Up grade to a chamber vacuum pack.
A less expensive non chamber packer requires a bag with ridges inside to allow the air to be pulled out and the bags are much more expensive. I think the cost as much as .50 cents a piece.
The bags that a chamber style uses cost about 3 or 4 cents a piece.
If your vacuum packing very much the less expensive bags will save you money over time.
The chamber style also has a bigger and better pump.
They are larger and much heavier but do a much better job.
Second Thing:
Buy heavier bags. 3 mill bags don't last as long as the 4 mill bags.
Third thing:
Use a packer that has a double seal.
The double seal just is a way to ensure a good seal in case one seal fails.
Fourth thing:
Freeze your fish fast in as cold of a freezer as possible.
If your fish doesn't freeze fast enough crystals will form inside the fish as it freezes.
I always lay my fish out flat without stacking the fish while it freezes.
By laying your fish out flat so the air can circulate around it the fish will freeze in a few hours.
In a regular home freezer if you stack your fish up it will take several days to freeze the fish in the middle of the pile.
Fifth thing:
Your fish will also store better in a cold freezer.
My freezer holds my fish at minus 5 or minus 10 degrees.
This might not be feasible for a home freezer.
Quote from: Fisherdv on July 05, 2021, 09:18:40 AM
If no rinsing, how do you get all the blood, scales and slime etc off of the fillets after filleting?
Scrape scales/blood/slime off with the knife (rinse the knife), then wipe the fillets well with paper towel. Rinse the meat if you need to, but keep it to a minimum.
I got one of the LEM chamber sealers at Costco last year. It wasn't cheap, but I will never go back to a vacuum sealer. Night and day difference.
Quote from: Fisherdv on July 05, 2021, 09:18:40 AM
If no rinsing, how do you get all the blood, scales and slime etc off of the fillets after filleting?
for salmon:
There shouldnt be any blood on your salmon when you are ready to fillet. You should bleed it at sea ( I rip out gills and hang over board on a rope for 5 min. Then I gut and clean out the kidney line and remove gills and wash with salt water wash down hose. Pack in ice. This is the way commercial top grade fish is treated.
scrape the slime if any before filleting on a clean board. fillet the salmon and pick up the fillet from skin side and then set it aside. wipe board clean and then flip fish and fillet the other side. wipe your knife with a damp cloth to clean any gunk. wipe your hands with the cloth. Trim off the rib bones, back gristle, belly edge and tail end etc. Then wipe the meat side clean with knfife with the grain. Now slice it up. Pick up each piece on the skin side and set on saran wrap and seal it up piece by piece. No mess and no fresh water touches meat.
filleting should be one straight cut from head to tail. less handling the better.
I usually cut the gills immediately, then throw the fish straight in the cooler if sea lions are around. If no sea lions, I will cut the gills and bleed on a rope. Either way, there is always some blood on the fillet table while cleaning. I never thought about fresh water harming the fillets. The ice in the cooler is fresh water :shrug9:
Try gutting/de-gilling and cleaning out the kidney line next time before icing down. Fresh water is bad news for fish meat. After a butcher cuts off a rib eye he dosent wash it in chlorinated tap water either!
Quote from: Tesoro on July 05, 2021, 08:15:55 PM
Try gutting/de-gilling and cleaning out the kidney line next time before icing down. Fresh water is bad news for fish meat. After a butcher cuts off a rib eye he dosent wash it in chlorinated tap water either!
Gotcha. Thanks. Didn't even think about the chlorine in the tap water.
It not the chlorine its something about osmosis or whatever. Chlorine just a kicker
Hmmm very informative. Keep ice in the bag, not loose. Excellent point about chlorine and whatever else they put in our water.
I wish I could filet in one swipe as mentioned but I definitely suck at filleting. "ANYTHING "
appreciate all the input. I'm afraid I should have posted sooner for these fish but I'm pretty sure they will still eat better than what's at the local market. Now hopefully I'll get back out for more so I can try all these excellent tips.
I did season some as Fisherdv suggested and added butter, rosemary and lemon slices. I'm going to try boiling in the bag until the butter melts then pour the whole thing into a preheated lightly oiled cast iron pan and either fry or bake from their. I cook like I fillet ! " UNFORTUNATELY "
Quote from: Wiley on July 06, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Hmmm very informative. Keep ice in the bag, not loose. Excellent point about chlorine and whatever else they put in our water.
I wish I could filet in one swipe as mentioned but I definitely suck at filleting. "ANYTHING "
appreciate all the input. I'm afraid I should have posted sooner for these fish but I'm pretty sure they will still eat better than what's at the local market. Now hopefully I'll get back out for more so I can try all these excellent tips.
I did season some as Fisherdv suggested and added butter, rosemary and lemon slices. I'm going to try boiling in the bag until the butter melts then pour the whole thing into a preheated lightly oiled cast iron pan and either fry or bake from their. I cook like I fillet ! " UNFORTUNATELY "
Wiley, if your not familiar with a Sous Vide cooker look them up on Amazon. I think we have a Kurtis Stone brand. Basically it is a heater that clips in the pan of water. It will heat the water to a desired temp and keep it there. We do our Salmon in the vacuum sealed bag (thawed), at 140* for about an hour, depending on thickness. The Salmon will be very moist from end to end. No overcooking. For thick King Salmon fillets this is our favorite way to cook besides smoking.
Chamber vacuum sealer is the way to go. You will find more uses than you think once you have one. My wife questioned the purchase but now uses it all the time for everything in the kitchen. I processed 65 crabs and a few chinook this week and it is so nice being able to pull a good vacuum on wet items.
Quote from: ATGEP on July 06, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Chamber vacuum sealer is the way to go. You will find more uses than you think once you have one. My wife questioned the purchase but now uses it all the time for everything in the kitchen. I processed 65 crabs and a few chinook this week and it is so nice being able to pull a good vacuum on wet items.
I think I know what u mean but to clarify for others.. a chamber vac dosent create a vacuum that effects wet meat, ie sucks juice out of meat like a vac sealer. It creates a vacuum that wraps the bag around meat without damaging the meat and then mysteriously seals the bag. I can fill a vac bag half full of water and it will seal it with no spillage or air spacesI do my home made broth this way.
Quote from: Tesoro on July 06, 2021, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: ATGEP on July 06, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
Chamber vacuum sealer is the way to go. You will find more uses than you think once you have one. My wife questioned the purchase but now uses it all the time for everything in the kitchen. I processed 65 crabs and a few chinook this week and it is so nice being able to pull a good vacuum on wet items.
I think I know what u mean but to clarify for others.. a chamber vac dosent create a vacuum that effects wet meat, ie sucks juice out of meat like a vac sealer. It creates a vacuum that wraps the bag around meat without damaging the meat and then mysteriously seals the bag. I can fill a vac bag half full of water and it will seal it with no spillage or air spacesI do my home made broth this way.
You are correct, In a food saver sealer, you have to stop the machine before the liquid gets to the seal bar or you get no seal. For wet items like fish and crabmeat, it means you do not get a very strong vacuum before you need to seal it.
I usually double seal fish, after placing the fish in the bag I get paper towel roll it up and put in front of the fish before vacuuming the bag. This prevents most of the juices from being sucked out of the bag and helps with the seal because the seal area is dry.
Then double seal the bag.
I literally vacuum pack thousands of bags of fish a year.
While there are a few tricks to getting a good seal the single most important thing you can do is buy a good quality vacuum sealer.
Over the years I have had multiple vacuum packers.
My first one was a Food Saver. The results were never very good.
If I did get a good seal it was usually temporary.
The seal would break in the freezer over time.
The bags were expensive also.
I probably had 5 vac sealers until I finally went to a chamber style sealer.
I bought a Vac Master chamber style sealer which I believe is made in China.
I would consider the Vac Master a entry level model for a chamber style.
I have used this machine for the last 4 years.
I sealed literally thousands of bags with it.
I have had pretty good luck with it.
I get a good seal, and the cost of my bags went from nearly 50 cents per bag to about 3 cents.
If your doing any volume a chamber style vacuum packer will pay for itself.
I think I paid about $1,000 for the Vac Master.
I just recently upgraded to a Bizerba Vacuum Packer which is made in Germany.
My Bizerba has a double chamber with a swing lid.
This Bizerba is probably 40 years old.
Its a bullet proof tank. Even though it is old I was super excited to find it.
It is actually better than a new one.
A friend gave it to me and I spent $600 getting it refurbished.
This machine would probably sell for $6,000 used.
The German made Busche pump in it is the size of a Volkswagen bug engine. :beerchug:
The size of the pump helps with how long it takes to pump the air out before it seals. This machine is fast.
The swing lid allows me to vacuum one chamber while I am loading the other chamber.
I went from doing one bag at a time and then waiting before I can vacuum the next bag
to vacuuming 4 bags at a time and then being able to load the next chamber while the first chamber is vacuuming.
I am a happy camper.
This machine runs on three phase electricity.
I don't have three phase at my house so I had to use a 10 horse power rotary three phase converter.
This converter normally costs about $3,000 but the same friend gave this to me also. :party017:
I help my friend out with a bunch of things also, its not a one way street with us.
Below is some pictures.
The last photo is a seal I got from the Bizerba.
The seal is the best I have seen.
I am convinced the best thing you can do to get a good seal is the quality of the machine.
Of course the cost vs your use is to be considered.
Keep our eye out and talk to people, there are deals out there.
I got into this machine for about $600.
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/15/248-080721084547.jpeg)
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/15/248-080721084616.jpeg)
(http://www.arimaowners.com/gallery/15/248-080721084740.jpeg)
Tunacious, like everything of yours " Extra Stout" comes to mind. That's an awesome setup!
Quote from: Wiley on July 09, 2021, 03:32:57 PM
Tunacious, like everything of yours " Extra Stout" comes to mind. That's an awesome setup!
:party017:
Speaking of bleeding a salmon. I cut the gills and stick the fish head down in a bucket.
But....this is the way some of the commercial guys bleed. I haven't tried it but interesting. The videos at the bottom of the page are good.
https://www.washingtontrollers.org/bleeding-technique/#:~:text=Bleeding%20Technique%201%20A%20large%20king%20salmon.%20The,the%20kidney%20and%20the%20backbone.%203%20Finished%20bleeding
I think the main difference between the chamber sealers and the Food Saver types is bag thickness. If I remember right my bags are 5ml. I never see a non sealed bag anymore. Personally I think it's the pin bones that get the Food Saver bags.
Now if someone would come up with an easy way to pull pin bones.
Quote from: Kimbrey on July 11, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Now if someone would come up with an easy way to pull pin bones.
You mean easier than pin bone tweezers?
Quote from: Kimbrey on July 11, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Speaking of bleeding a salmon. I cut the gills and stick the fish head down in a bucket.
But....this is the way some of the commercial guys bleed. I haven't tried it but interesting. The videos at the bottom of the page are good.
https://www.washingtontrollers.org/bleeding-technique/#:~:text=Bleeding%20Technique%201%20A%20large%20king%20salmon.%20The,the%20kidney%20and%20the%20backbone.%203%20Finished%20bleeding
I think the main difference between the chamber sealers and the Food Saver types is bag thickness. If I remember right my bags are 5ml. I never see a non sealed bag anymore. Personally I think it's the pin bones that get the Food Saver bags.
Now if someone would come up with an easy way to pull pin bones.
beg to differ. the foodsavers suck the inside of the bag to create a vacuum and thus draw juice out of the meat in the process. A chamber vac operates on a diff principle that does nothing to the meat before it is sealed in plastic. After a thousand sealings I still havent figured out how this is accomplished!
:yeahthat: Sometimes ya just gotta appreciate things that work and don't question how... Tv is one for me !
"A chamber vac operates on a diff principle that does nothing to the meat before it is sealed in plastic. After a thousand sealings I still havent figured out how this is accomplished!"
The chamber vac evacuates all the air out of the chamber before the seal bar get activated. The space that is in the bag is vacuum and not air so when the air is reintroduced to the chamber the earths atmosphere pushes the bag tight. That why liquids will boil in the chamber vacuum sealer at room temperature.
ATGEP, IM sure that all makes perfect sense... to someone :beerchug:
We vacuum seal a few fillets (Food saver) but the bulk of our fish, like tuna, are packed in jars and hit the pressure cooker. Omelets, bagel n cream cheese, tortellini, etc. all winter yummies...great adds to Christmas baskets too.
+1 on the vacmaster. The bags are more convenient and cost effective and I wouldn't be surprised if it costs the same over the life of the machine vs a food saver. I end up sealing other things since it's so convenient so that might factor into the over-lifetime-cost (i.e. ground coffee, frozen chicken/meats from costco instead of leaving it in the bag it came from, etc).
As for prepping the fish after catch, I treat it like I would with tuna and keep it in an ice and salt water bath. I've tried the bleeding in bucket method, but it just doesn't get as much out as letting it bleed on a stringer while in the big blue. Pressure bleeding is the next step, but I'm currently not set up for that.
Sushi grade is the goal at the end of the day, even if it ends up on the grill.