Bought an Attwood hose and bulb new for my Johnny 9.9 sailmaster kicker.female connecter fits but falls off. if i pull back on the lever it will stay until it is bumped but i would not trust this on the water .Is this just a bad fit ? or do Attwoods not fit well ?
Had this happen on my old Johnson... look at the little stainless steel clip that "locks" into place to hold it on. For mine, I was able to take a pair of needle nose and bend the lip of the clip out just a tad. Not much, but it was enough to allow it to lock in place.
on the motor or on the line ?
I had the same thing happen with a 9.9 yamaha. Found the attwood fitting to have poor tolerances , We ended up taking the old one off and putting on the new hose. It is frustrating to pay the high prices they get for this stuff and it is junk.
H-T
Quote from: strokersquid on May 28, 2012, 10:37:16 PM
on the motor or on the line ?
i get what you mean now. i bought another from Waly's and if the new one does not fit i will try your trick
had the same problem on my Merc 8hp and it turned out to be a bit of rubber flash (excess not removed from when the fitting was molded) and once I cleaned that out, it worked fine. I do agree with the general concensus that the fittings are pretty shabby quality overall
Quote from: Threeweight on May 28, 2012, 09:47:56 PM
Had this happen on my old Johnson... look at the little stainless steel clip that "locks" into place to hold it on. For mine, I was able to take a pair of needle nose and bend the lip of the clip out just a tad. Not much, but it was enough to allow it to lock in place.
did that and it worked like a charm! thanks !
Maybe this subject can help me. I had my Arima in storage for a little over a year and a half. I had it properly covered with a complete sunbrella cover, but the Yamaha ProV 150 2Stroke did sit out in the sun in a tilt up position...consequenly I've had to completely drain the tank, (yes it had about 5 gallons of old gas in it..my bad!) replace the filter, replace the impeller, fuel pumps, and put in a carb kit. I bought two thermostats just in case, but never had to use them. The problem I'm encountering is when I try to go over 5K rpms (not for a continual run, but just a speed check)...it will run ok for about a minute or less, then start sounding like fuel starvation. I replaced the squeeze bulb at the time of the carb kit...and this discussion has me wondering if the problem might sit in the bulb? I did save the old one and the squeeze bulb appears to be smaller than the old one, if that's an issue at all. I bought the new one from the Yamaha dealer so that shouldn't be a problem...or should it? It runs fine at about 4200 and lower, and the speed/rpm ratio in the higher range has been consistently 1K higher than the speed...in other words, at 3400 rpm I'm running 34 mph...4200 rpm; 42 mph. I can cruse ok at 26-36 mph, but if I try to go into WOT or above 48K it starts slowing down acting like starvation. If I have my brother go back and squeeze/fill the bulb, it picks back up again and runs for a while till I hear the rpms dropping off (easy to hear on a 2 stroke!!). I've had the mechanic out for a sea trial after the carb kit installation and he adjusted the carbs....and we were in really rough water so it was difficult to run it at WOT or in the higher rpm range....he did hear it drop off a couple times and that's when we went in, left it in the water on the trailer and replaced the fuel pumps, took it back out and...it seemed to take care of it, but again, rough water prevented a good run. Thought it was resolved till I went out with my brother yesterday for some stripers on calm water where I could leave it at high rpms for a while to see what happened....it happened. I also noticed that at idle, every so often I'll get a little hiccup like a very slight hesitation in a cylinder...then it idles ok, then a hiccup.
Looking for some ideas or suggestions.......the molding tab in the bulb does interest me and I'll pull it and check it out, or replace the old line and bulb. This is a good lesson for anyone who stores a boat for a long time...do whatever it takes to preserve the reliability you had before you stored it. I don't think that anyone on this forum stores their boats for that long...most of you are out there using them as they should be.
how about the fuel pump in the motor ? carb needle valves not letting enough fuel in the carbs ? i don't think the bulb size should matter at all since the limit is the diameter of the fuel hose in that circuit.
Chuck I also don't think primer ball is your problem. You stated that you cleaned out the fuel tank. This can leave small particles of gunk ( no see em's) that can plug a fuel filter real fast. Your fuel pump may be strong enough to pull fuel though for the lower rpm's ,but not for the wot. Another thing that may clog filter is junk on the inside of the fuel line itself. from old gas sitting in it.Weird stuff happens when things sit around for awhile. My boat had sat for 2 years before I got it and had a bunch of gremlins in it.
H-T
I replaced the two fuel pumps....as outlined on the initial explanation when I first ran into the problem....the mechanic diagnosed it up front and had me buy a couple fuel pumps before we went out on the sea trial and he replaced them on the water when the engine started crapping out. Don't know where to turn except to the possibility of an air leak somewhere that's causing the fuel flow to fall off when the carbs suck major vacuum....pull more fuel in that's inhibited somewhere in the system....an air leak in the fittings to the filter? How about the fact that both the Pro V and the 9.9 Yammi 4 stroke pull gas from the same tank? If the 9T is up on the hydraulic mount and then further tilted on it''s own hydraulic tilt...could the fuel bowl drain and possibly suck air thru the 9T's carburator? Where could air get in to inhibit the fuel flow?
I've been in touch with a dealer who has an 08 150 four stroke in the crate he wants to sell me for 11K....but I'm ambivolent about spending a total of around 12K out the door for the engine,tax, remount the new one, run it for proof of life etc....the rest of the accesssories like cables and controls should be a plug and play...including the existing connections and functionality of the dashboard tach, oil gauge etc. Waddaya think? I don't have a buyer for the older ProV....but that's something I'd have to try to negotiate....I don't want a used 150 sitting in my garage for a year. To say I'm ambivoltent is an understatement. Yes...no...maybe.???
Chuck it very possible you are getting a air leak from the 9.9.I have seen this happen a bunch of times.
To check if this is the problem ,just disconnect the fuel line at the motor of the 9.9 and go for a run.If this is the problem it is easy to fix.You install a anti-syphon barbed fitting (one that has a check ball in it) to the line that feeds the 9.9 at the fuel filter. The fitting is less the $10.
H-T
If your motor is sucking air, the kicker line is a definite possibility. But, so is every old fuel line and connection. Just a tiny crack in a line will let air in under high vacuum conditions. Most often this happens under the clamps at the fittings.
Could also be a clogged vent on the fuel tank. Or, a bad anti-siphon valve - either at the tank, or in the bulb. If the bulb never collapses, I doubt it's either the vent or the AS valve at the tank. But, it could still be the AS valve in the bulb.
First of all, thanks guys for the feedback on possibilities....ALL of which I'll go and check. Since the engine is a 91 and the fuel lines are undoubtedly of the same vintage, I'm going to cut out about an inch or so and re-attach the lines with the clamps. I may also put the old fuel line and squeeze pump back on....but first I'll run it with the fuel line to the T9 disconnected. No sense causing myself a lot of work if I can eliminate the easiest task. Then I'd move to putting the old fuel line and ball pump back on, followed by re-attaching the the fuel filter under the transom since it's easy to get to....If I do it in sequence, and it stops the problem at any given point, I'll fall back on the old adage....if it works, don't fix it. HOWEVER....after 20 years it might not be a bad idea to replace old fuel lines. The T9 runs great, but it's not sucking major vacuum even at high rpm....the ProV on the other hand with three carbs at WOT would demand a lot of fuel and in so doing, pull in air from a small slice or crack in a hose.
Thanks again guys for the intuitive thoughts and suggestions. Great forum. Here's wishing all of you screaming reels.
Chuck
got an outboard tank ? you could run off that. if it runs ok, then it is the fuel line and/or tank. if not its in the engine.
+ 1 on AK's comments.
An ozone crack in your bulb will open at high draw but the engine idles fine- first hand knowledge on that one. :redface:
GREAT idea....except I sold the 3 gallon tank at a garage sale. Shudda otta kept it....but I can borrow one from someone for a test run. That would be a great way to isolate the problem then start on the search and destroy mission to hunt down the errant line. Another great idea from the forum audience.
where da ya live Chuck ?
As with bringing any old boat up to snuff, swapping out all the fuel lines, connectors, bulbs and etc. is a really cheap way to solve/eliminate problems. I did this and then was able to determine that I needed to replace check valves and fuel pick up tubes as well. I can say with confidence that i have no fuel system problems today. :beerchug:
Mark
Quote from: markshoreline on June 07, 2012, 10:09:55 PM
I can say with confidence that i have no fuel system problems today. :beerchug:
Mark
Really enjoy tempting fate do you??? :hoboy:
StreamFixer
StrokerSquid: I live in Elk Grove....a burg just south of Sacramento. Liverwurst lives here too. We've been doing a number of projects together....even managed to take his boat out for .....ready for this?......FISHING!! So far we've just been working on mine fixing this and that....and he's been putting in his radar tower, electronics, and wiring in lights etc...so most of our interaction has been doing "stuff"....until we finally said $crew it....these boats are meant to be ON the water.so we went and it was great. JW's 21 hums like a sewing machine with that 150 4 Stroke...definitely need to get out more...and we will soon.
I talked to the mechanic at Buck's outboard and he told me that he thought trying to use a portable tank wouldn't have a gas pickup big enough to handle the flow rate of a V6 at WOT. Dunno, but I hadn't thought of that. He was also of the opinion that I should disconnect the fuel line from the T9 first and try running it....then go to the gas pickup in the 48 gallon tank...but that means removing the tank to be able to remove the pickup. I'd like to look at other options before I go thru removing the tank.
is the fuel line a bigger diameter on that 150 ? if not then why wouldn't an outboard tank work ?
A portable tank with a 3/8" line should feed that 150 just fine.
Today I got together with Liverwurst and we traced down all the fuel lines. Found a very visible hole in the line coming out of the gas/water separator...cut back any lines that looked hinky about an inch or more back and took out any plastic ties and replaced all connectors with stainless hose clamps. Fired it up and it runs at 11-1200 rpm...and idles rough. Before our "fix" it was idling at 7-800 rpm and starving for fuel at 4K. Since I already paid the mechanic for the carb rebuilds, he's getting it back to adjust things now that I think I found the air leak. Good call by the guys who suggested air leak in the gas lines. Hopefully, that's going to be the source of the problem and a good carb tune may resolve my issues.
One thing I forgot to do when we ran it with the muffs on is I forgot to disconnect the T9 to see if that made any difference. I think now it smells like it's running rich....fumes burned my eyes which is usually an indicator of rich...plus it would hiccup at idle. Tried to adjust the carbs, but leaning them out didn't seem to do much. I even turned the set screw on #2 all the way closed and it didn't seem to affect it....not a good sign. leaning it all the way shut should have made it start to gallop. Time for the expert.
FINALLY ran down the problem. The engine continued to run well at idle and up to about 3800 rpm....so a very knowledgeable retired engine mechanic went for a run with me. We took off the cover to the three 2bbl carbs and ran the boat up to between 46-5200 rpm and when it started to starve out, we began a systematic procedure of squirting carb cleaner into each of the two barrel carbs. When we finally hit the errant carb....the rpm picked up and as long as you kept squirting the cleaner in....the engine would run. Stop and it would drop one cylinder from fuel starvation and rpms would nose dive. At least at this point, we can focus on that one carb in #4 cylinder...and most likely the high speed jet. Although we tried putting a hand over the intake and sucking whatever it is out of the jet, it didn't work, and will require a tear down. I'm very confident that we have the problem isolated...and I can put a little more time and miles on this engine before I go to a 4 $troke. It's a '91 but only has 260 hours on it. So far I've replaced the fuel pumps, thermostats, chased down and cut/reattched or replaced all questionable fuel lines...put on clamps where we found zip ties, and replaced the water pump....so once it's running right, I should be trouble free for a while. with a 2:1 gear ration in the lower unit, this 150 Yami makes this a fast boat when it runs right.
Glad to hear you're getting close. Shouldn't be too long and you'll be back up and running. :clap:
^&^%$*$(*)....thought I had it licked. Ended up doing TWO sea trials yesterday...went back in and rebuilt #2 carbs, cleaned out high speed jets etc. Thought I had it licked but the second trial started starving out at 4200 AGAIN. I brought along an old time die hard mechanic who's methodical as all get out. He slammed the throttles open and it jumped out of the hole with no problem, so it's not hurting for gas when you jump on it. That eliminates the prospect of float levels and jet delivery...ran great at idle and up to around 4K, then started starving for gas by dropping off rpm's.
Diagnosis....recently put on a new hose with squeeze bulb when I replace gas lines and hose clamps...installed the new T9 which hadn't been run. Looked at the fuel/water seperator and the mechanic feels I need an anti siphon valve on the line to the T9 as well as we'll put in a larger gas line to the 150. We ran it with the cowling and carb covers off and can see that gas is being delivered to all cylinders until higher rpm....then the bulb starts going soft. Brand new fuel pumps, so the diagnosis lies in the anti-siphon valve and size of the gas lines to the 150. Hopefully today will put this issue to rest after the 6th sea trial. Runs like a top at lower rpms around 3800. Managed to get it to 5500 by sitting back there and constantly squeezing the primer bulb....gas delivery is faulty. I need a drink. :doh:
Chuck you are having one heck of a time with this. You mentioned you changed the fuel filter. Did you get the right one. I had a similar problem and it turned out that I had the wrong filter. It would let some gas go threw and sealed up just fine.But the seals on it were wrong and would restrict fuel flow.Or you may have a defective fuel filter that is restricting the flow. Also is there a anti-siphon going to the 150 ,if so you don't need it. The kicker motors have such a weak fuel pump that there is not much chance of it pulling the fuel out of the carbs.
H-T
HT: The thought was that the 150 was pulling air thru the fuel lines to the carbs on the T9 not the other way around....that air was backflowing from the T9 fuel lines, even though the T9 gasline has a check ball on it...that only prevents fuel from going OUT...when it's disconnected. Air can still go IN thru the checkvalve. So I just went and bought the anti-siphon valve to put on the fuel separator line that goes to the T9. Waiting for the guy to bring me my bigger fuel lines to replace the old ones on the 150, clamp them all tight....then out on the water for what hopefully is the LAST sea trial....all this to keep from having to buy a new engine....but if this works, I'll keep it even though it's a 2Stroke. It's still a fast motor scooter when she runs at the top of her game.
Halleluja...GREAT day in the morning....happier than a clam at high tide.
I went and did all the things outlined in the previous post in addition to attending to the suggestions offered for fuel filters, fuel seperator etc....and am happy to report, this is the LAST blow-by-blow description of the problem you'll have to wade thru.
It turned out that the fuel line the dealer sold was too small...the mechanic had a larger diameter line he took off a Merc...and the boat ran like a race horse all the way to the finish line. Managed to hit 5600 rpms and no fall off. I'll post the rpm/GPS/pitot tube readouts after I have a chance to run it this coming week.
I'm going fishing with my brother this Saturday....finally get some time away from the driveway and on the water.
Thanks for all the ongoing input and suggestions. Truly and sincerely appreciated.
Chuck
Hey Chuck, Glad to hear that you've finally got your issues cleared up. I had a minor 'wiggle' with mine last week too that was very similar. The original fuel filter (Raycor) supplied with the boat was waaaaay to small for my main. The good news for mine was, the mechanic picked up on it while he was testing out the motor in the tank & changed it right then. :applause: He told me that I would have found out on the water as I would have noticed it was starved for fuel at around 4000 rpm. :doh:
Enjoy the fishing now and 'Tight Lines'!
Rick
easy (although frustrating) fix for CJ. When I ran into that problem, I ended up replacing 4 injectors ('tweren't cheap either).
StreamFixer
Just for reference, what was the size of the line that was too small? And what size did it need to be?
(My guess is that it had 5/16"on it, but it needed 3/8".)
AK: You're exactly, precisely, and absolutely dead on. 3/8ths is the magic number!! This might be a good lesson for folks who are replacing the bulb and short fuel line on their engines, especially the larger HP ones....I put my faith in the dealership to sell me the right replacement never thinking that they'd given me the wrong fuel line. That $25 item has cost me over $500 in mechanic's fees, replacing fuel pumps, spark plugs, carb kit (probably needed those anyway) and not to mention 6 sea trials with attendant launch fees, gas for the truck, gas for the boat, over a month's worth of down time, cops at my front door from neighbors complaining about the boat being parked there, my time and anxiety etc!!
Bottom line....that's old history now. I'm good to go. No sniveling allowed. :dance:
I think the 5/16 is the standard for the newer 4 strokes w/ fuel injection, and probably the E-Tecs to.
Given the fact that the new 4 strokes are noted for their much more economical fuel consumption rate, they probably don't need the volume of fuel that the older big 2 strokes do...which is obviously a benefit. Out of curiosity... Who is running a 150 or larger engine right now? If so, what is the size of the fuel lines for the larger horsepower 4 stroke engines? You're probably right for the fuel line size for engines up to 115, or maybe even 130....but it's good to know that there may be variations in fuel line sizes for the engines depending upon horsepower.
The bottom line is.....it's going to take me a long time to burn up $14,000 worth of gas, which is the cost of a new 150 4 stroke with tax and installation. I'll have my Viking funeral long before that. Odin finally smiled upon me. :beerchug:
Went striper fishing today...caught one....and crapola...the engine starved out again after running it at 4800 rpm for a while....once it started the fall-off, it kept doing it unless I dropped down to 3800, then it would run just fine.
Screw it...I'm going to buy a 4 stroke....I'm done with all this nonsense. I'm going to look at the 115 Yami since all of you who have them have extolled the virtues of this horsepower for the SR19...and the gas issue looms large....I went thru a bunch of it today while only running about 10 or so miles....I NEED reliability. I can't be relaxed if I think there's a a problem even though I could just kick if down to 3800 and be done with it...it's still not working right after all this work and time/effort/cost.
What's the consensus of a good price for a new 2012 115 Yami 4S?
You were raised in SE Asia, barter!!! Let us know what you come up with. :biggrin:
StreamFixer
What a guy....I give out a few personal details...and they come back to bite me. How about a reply just a tad bit more responsive??? Something a little more on point? Maybe a hint? How bout a whisper in my ear? How bout you dona' busta my.......chops? Sa' matta whitchu?
Bakit' hindi ng bigyang ko isang hint? Aye nako'...
Chuck, If you didn't have bad luck with that motor you wouldn't have had any luck... :shrug9: Not having the reliability takes all the fun out of being on the water for me. I can't help you out with pricing from here... but maybe make a drive up, we'll go out & slay some salmon and with the exchange rate, get you a good deal and a vacation too!? :whistle: I think Odin is probably still smiling on you, but wasn't able to help with your motor...
Good luck,
Rick
I'd love the chance to come up and slay a few denizons of the deep with you...and chase down a few after the chase. I "fronted" $2K to an Alaskan company for the thrill of catching giant steelies on some remote river...can't remember the name. They had a policy that you had to cancel 60 days prior or default your deposit (trip was actually $4K for 5 days of promised giants). I had to have an emergency operation and called them 57 days prior....and they kept my 2K and wouldn't even refund me a portion of it. Then they had the scrotem to call me the next year and ask if I wanted to try to come up again....sheesh.
From now on, I only go where I know the folks, or get referrals from reliable folks, and try to stick with knowns, rather than unknowns...and should something totally unforseen come up as it did back then, I know they'd understand. Back to the original theme....yes, I'd really like to try and get up your way...and yes, I read the discussion on protocols for trips...and yes, I handle my share of the expenses and don't talk too much, don't smoke or drink on ocean trips....spit only on the leeward side, pay for broken/lost tackle, and bring a lunch for the captain....what a guy huh? :beerchug:
Chuck,
I just broke through the 20 hour mark on the new Yammie 115 and it is so sweet and keeps getting better and faster!
I paid 10.9k out the door including King County/ Washington's 10% sales tax, propeller, installation, controls, cables, digital tach and 3 yr warranty. That was in March. The shop was kind enough to store my old Yammie F100 on a pallet and then load it onto thesaltypuddle's truck for free. (of course I tipped the installer for his extra help).
Good luck, man.
Mark
Quote from: Chuck Jones on June 23, 2012, 11:05:57 PM
What a guy....I give out a few personal details...and they come back to bite me. How about a reply just a tad bit more responsive??? Something a little more on point? Maybe a hint? How bout a whisper in my ear? How bout you dona' busta my.......chops? Sa' matta whitchu?
Bakit' hindi ng bigyang ko isang hint? Aye nako'...
Awwwww Geee, Now I feel BAD :facepalm: Mahlu on you--- :wink:
So If you don't want to spend the $$$ on new, go with a low hour used unit. Just be sure to buy it from an area that does not have easy access to salt.
I got my 115 Yamaha Stainless prop, 2003 (175 hours), mounted, controller, wired, cables for less than $4K in Post Falls ID. Bought it during the dead of winter (January) Did not come with gauges..
StreamFixer
WOW WOW WOW do not think anybody can top that one !!! thats an outlier for sure.i would think about $4-5 for a used 115 and $1k mount and gauges would be a stomping deal.
Chuckster....I knew there was something up when you didn't call me back yesterday. I am hoping that you had a good stiff drink and slept off your frustrating day....and realized that it would be worth having Mike take another look at your engine...... he did have it running right so it can be done.....it's something simple.
noteworthy..... Not too many people want to buy an engine if aint running right. Just my two cents. John W.
ps...(pic) while you were out screwing around trying to catch a fish, I finished up my anchor nav light/gps/radar.
JW: Although I will call Mike to have him take ANOTHER look at this damn thing....I've about had it. I've thrown so much money at this engine and replaced so many parts, and spent so much time in sea trials it isn't funny. I'm fed up...disgusted...frustrated...out of patience. I'm going to look for a new or lightly used 115 Yami 4Stroke....the feedback I see on the "repower" discussion is all positive for repowering with a 115, and the amount of running around I intend to do in the delta makes a good argument for the fuel savings; in spite of my previous statement about how long it would take me to burn up $14K in gas. That quote was for a 150. The 115 would be less and also alleviate some of my arse end weight. Patience has its limits. Mine's gone.
suzuki 115 for sale in classified section