hey guys,
working with a 15' Arima(not sure of the year) Sea Sprinter and noticed that there is about a 2ft crack on the bottom of the boat, near the middle of the boat. It doesn't seem very deep, but I'm assuming as this is under the waterline it's VERY important to get fixed. The pics are probably not enough, but from what you can see, do you think filling it with marine tex would be enough?
I figure if I fill the bilge and I don't see water coming out of the crack then I can confirm that the hull isn't breached? If not, is there an easy way to tell if the hull is breached?
Thank you in advance for any opinions you may have! After looking at the pics, it really does look bad! Hopefully it's not as bad as it looks.
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y384/jawnypublic/IMG_0533_zps77f99244.jpg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/jawnypublic/media/IMG_0533_zps77f99244.jpg.html)
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y384/jawnypublic/IMG_0534_zpsf3b14a47.jpg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/jawnypublic/media/IMG_0534_zpsf3b14a47.jpg.html)
WOW! :bigshock: I've never seen that happen to an Arima. Almost looks like someone left it outside with the bilge plug in and it filled with water then froze. I say that because it has the appearance of a fracture that could have occurred from expansion. Either that or someone possibly ran over some kind of sharp solid object that caused a "slice" in the hull that weakened it; ultimately winding-up as that crack. I find it hard to believe that could be the result of stress because I've always understood the smaller/shorter hulls were usually less likely to suffer cracks vs. longer hulls by virtue of having less tendency to "flex". :shrug9:
Yat
Now that I look closer, judging by the obvious "scraping" we can see, it appears that hull has suffered some kind of "trauma". IMO, I think it's time to put that baby to "bed".
Yat
That looks like significant structural damage. That will need some professional assessment to see if it is repairable
If that was my boat I would at a minimum pay a professional to look at it and discuss repair options. Defiance in Bremerton is building the arima's know it wouldn't be a bad idea to have them check it out. If not repaired correctly this could turn into a huge safety issue imho
I would have a pro look at it and not use it until it was it was fixed :twocents:
His IP suggests he is in Hawaii so taking it to Bremerton does not look like a good option.
BDog
I agree with you finding a competent fiberglass professional, preferably one who works with boats, to assess the situation. I would not trust my life to that boat at this time.
StreamFixer
The repair would have to be done from outside and inside the hull so the interior will need to be removed to access the crack. That's a big job for a pro.
Send these pictures to Don at Arima and ask his advice. I would take out a Dremel or grinder and find out just how bad it is. It certainly can't be ignored.. Nice thing about fiberglass is that just about anything can be repaired. Going to take more than Marinetex here. Keep us updated!
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Looks like it was run up on the rock and left there until it could be pulled off allowing wave action to give those verticle scraps.
Have you probed the depth of the crack yet?
I agree that you need to break out the dremel tool to widen that out so you can get a better look.
Never know...you might only be into the first couple layers of glass.
Which would actuallymake this a much easier DIY repair.
Key thing here is water intrusion which would cause the layers of glass to delaminate (I had that problem on a smaller scale on my boat when I brought it home). You have to cut out the layers until you get to solid glass, dry it out (moisture is you number one enemy...don't get it out and you will develope blisters), then start your rebuilding process.
Mine took an entire summer to complete.
Best bet is to find the best fiberglass person in our area and have them advise you. Then TAKE THEIR ADVISE.
Quote from: betadog808 on February 11, 2015, 01:31:05 AM
hey guys,
working with a 15' Arima(not sure of the year) Sea Sprinter and noticed that there is about a 2ft crack on the bottom of the boat, near the middle of the boat. It doesn't seem very deep, but I'm assuming as this is under the waterline it's VERY important to get fixed. The pics are probably not enough, but from what you can see, do you think filling it with marine tex would be enough?
It looks to me as if someone has already tried to patch the crack with Marine Tex. That crack need fiberglass mat and resin to span the crack and restore the integrity of the hull.
I figure if I fill the bilge and I don't see water coming out of the crack then I can confirm that the hull isn't breached? If not, is there an easy way to tell if the hull is breached?
Your hull is breached. It also looks like the boat was used after the crack and patch. I would be concerned about the foam or fiberglass absorbing water. Good luck to you.
Thank you in advance for any opinions you may have! After looking at the pics, it really does look bad! Hopefully it's not as bad as it looks.
Hey thanks for all the info guys, I appreciate it. I was hoping I wasn't going to get responses like that, but it is what it is. I do have a fiberglass guy coming by in the next few days to take a look. We'll see what he says.
I did probe the crack a bit with a thin gauge wire and it seemed that the crack is going parallel with the boat, maybe around 1/4". It doesn't seem like it's going "into" the boat, but I didn't check the entire crack.
Looks like the crack is on the keel. What year is your boat ?? (Early models had wood stringers)
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on February 11, 2015, 09:49:52 AM
Looks like the crack is on the keel. What year is your boat ?? (Early models had wood stringers)
I'm not sure of the year, is there a way to tell??
Quote from: betadog808 on February 11, 2015, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Croaker Stroker on February 11, 2015, 09:49:52 AM
Looks like the crack is on the keel. What year is your boat ?? (Early models had wood stringers)
I'm not sure of the year, is there a way to tell??
Post the serial number from the starboard spontoon.
Quote from: Diablo on February 11, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Post the serial number from the starboard spontoon.
Ah! It's a '91. So at least it's not wood stringers....I think?
So if I fill the bilge and water doesn't come out of the crack, is that a good test to know water hasn't gotten past the hull?
It's hard to imagine how it could have become cracked like that ??
Please let us know when you find out more.
Maybe the crack is just in the filler that someone used on the surface. You would have to grind it off down the the fiberglass to tell. :shrug9:
808 filling the boat with water will only tell you that the crack does not go all the way though. I will Not tell you if the outside layers of glass are water soaked or delaminating .
H-T
Quote from: Hydro-Therapy on February 11, 2015, 10:20:45 AM
808 filling the boat with water will only tell you that the crack does not go all the way though. I will Not tell you if the outside layers of glass are water soaked or delaminating .
H-T
I see. Well, that would be one nice thing to rule out, at least...
...
I may be exposing my ignorance of fiberglass boats...but isn't part of the idea of fiberglass that it is impervious to water?
I have heard of sunken fiberglass boats being raised and restored. Seems like that wouldn't be possible if the fiberglass layers delaminated when in contact with water. Also, we've discussed many times the problem with water or dampness in the Arima transom which affects the wood (which serves only to land screws) but apparently not the fiberglass of the transom itself. Wouldn't wet transoms delaminate?
Now I am thinking that could be badly cracked gel coat. Gel coat is less flexible than fiber glass so the gel coat cracked but the fiberglass is still intact. The gel coat could be thicker at the keel. If there was a crack through the hull there would be more water coming in the boat that the bilge pump could keep up with, when the boat was in the water. The Marine Tex didn't hold because the hull is flexing and Marine Tex is also brittle. :twocents: I always reserve the right to change my mind.
Have you had the boat in the water?
I spoke to my friend, the previous owner and he didn't go out much. He did confirm to me that the times he did go out, the bilge never came on. He said he doesn't remember hitting anything and he didn't do the repairs to the crack...so it was from an owner before him.
I haven't taken the boat in the water yet and he hasn't for at least a year or two.
Quote from: StreamFixer on February 11, 2015, 07:12:17 AM
His IP suggests he is in Hawaii so taking it to Bremerton does not look like a good option.
BDog
I agree with you finding a competent fiberglass professional, preferably one who works with boats, to assess the situation. I would not trust my life to that boat at this time.
StreamFixer
Yeah I guess that won't work being in Hawaii good catch
Chasin'
Fiberglass is "waterproof". That being said, water moves through fiberglass, at an osmotic rate. That is part of the reason we often find water in the wooden portion of our transoms after a decade or two, or three. As water gets in among compromised layers of resin/fabric, it will hasten the failure of the composite as it is 'working' (moving) or as it vibrates.
StreamFixer
Quote from: StreamFixer on February 11, 2015, 12:56:06 PM
Fiberglass is "waterproof". That being said, water moves through fiberglass, at an osmotic rate. That is part of the reason we often find water in the wooden portion of our transoms after a decade or two, or three. As water gets in among compromised layers of resin/fabric, it will hasten the failure of the composite as it is 'working' (moving) or as it vibrates.
Thanks. I *think* I understand most of what you're saying :P: So would areas of delaminated fiberglass show as "bubbled up" on the hull?
Quote from: Chasin Baitman on February 11, 2015, 01:39:37 PM
Thanks. I *think* I understand most of what you're saying :P: So would areas of delaminated fiberglass show as "bubbled up" on the hull?
I'm no expert. There are others on here with a lot more knowledge about glass than I. That being said, I think that is what you are seeing with bubbled gelcoat...
StreamFixer
Here is a excerpt from this page which is a much longer article on fiberglass blisters.
http://www.hartoftmarinesurvey.com/guide.html
"Fiberglass blisters form only when water penetrates to the laminate. This water not only damages the laminate by forming blisters causing localized delamination but also combines with uncured water soluble and hydroscopic components in the resin forming an acid solution which is highly corrosive to even the well cured polymers in the resin. As more water reaches the laminate, more corrosive solution is formed and more resin broken down. The effect is that of flushing the resin out from between the fiberglass strands. A laminate so affected is often referred to as having been hydrolyzed.
When a laminate gets hydrolyzed, a loss of strength takes place mostly in the form of increased flexibility. The hydrolysis is very layer specific and does not normally extend to the same degree through all layers. Consequently, the loss of strength can be quite high in the outer layer but the overall loss of strength in the hull itself minimal at least early on in the process. "
Blisters are common on the bottom of older larger boats.
Here' a quote from Belinda...
Quote from: BurnsieBabe on March 23, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Turnips, It is not a structural issue and cannot damage your boat. The boat would be perfectly fine if it was made without gelcoat at all, albeit very ugly. Gelcoat is just the pretty coating. That being said, over time it can get a bit worse and start chipping off, especially if water and dirt start causing it to separate more. It still will only be a cosmetic problem. Fix her this year, next year, or a couple of years from now. It should make no difference, unless it bothers you when you see it.
Belinda :twocents:
Please keep in mind that Belinda was not responding to this question, rather it was a question a couple years ago. I don't think that issues was quite the same as this one.
While her answer was informative regarding the contribution gelcoat makes to the structural strength of these boats, this crack looks like it goes much deeper than just through the gel coat.
Let's be careful to not mislead anyone on an important issue such as this.
StreamFixer
This looks much more serious than a gel coat crack. From the looks of the scrapes and dings around the crack, my guess is its the result of an extremely hard impact. I'd take a dremel tool and bevel the edges to see how deep it is. Any repair will require that so you won't be doing any additional damage. Good luck.
Some duct tape should do 'er. Just be sure to wear your life vest every time out. :biggrin:
-Shawn
BetaDog....where is it exactly on your boat? Can you post a better pic that shows location?
I think we can all agree with your concern that it is serious....and we can all mentally masturbate this to death.
:twocents: If it were mine, I'd start digging into the worst part of the crack to see how deep it is....you can't harm it as a good pro glass guy will start doing the same thing...and then likely recommend a fix.
Best of luck... Lvr
Quote from: LvrWurst 21 SR Skip on February 11, 2015, 07:53:46 PM
I think we can all agree with your concern that it is serious....and we can all mentally masturbate this to death.
Ummm, I think you meant
exacerbate. :biggrin:
Shawn...your right...Forgive me, please. I've always confused that terminology....Lvr
I'm sure he meant extrapolate.
Quote from: StreamFixer on February 11, 2015, 06:20:08 PM
Please keep in mind that Belinda was not responding to this question, rather it was a question a couple years ago. I don't think that issues was quite the same as this one.
While her answer was informative regarding the contribution gelcoat makes to the structural strength of these boats, this crack looks like it goes much deeper than just through the gel coat.
Let's be careful to not mislead anyone on an important issue such as this.
StreamFixer
Sorry if I misled anyone.
I took her to mean that "the boat would be fine without gelcoat". :shrug9: ...Just pointing out that the fiberglass resin is waterproof even without gel coat. Nothing to do with the crack.
Thanks guys. Well luckily the fiberglass guy was able to swing by while I was at work. He pretty much reiterated what you said. He wants to grind around the area to see what's really going on. The only thing he added was that if the glass looks good and if the structural integrity is ok, he can do a patch from the outside. It wouldn't be pretty(unless I paid more) but it would be one less thing to worry about.
However, if there is damage to the glass/waterlogged, etc. he suggested that maybe the boat should be scrapped. He said you would need to remove the cap to get to the see what's really going on. At that point, the cost wouldn't be worth it.
He also suggested I fill the bilge to see if water exits via the crack.
We hope to get together in a few days to grind around the area to really see what's up.
No matter how it goes, thank you so much for all the help and suggestions!
Definitely keep us posted. Take some pics when you grind out the area if you can. I think we're all quite interested to see what you find. And good luck!
Well, filled the bilge up...no drips from the crack so that's at least a little good news...If there was a leak, it's pretty much game over right there....
These boats are tough! I'm willing to bet streamfixers money that it will be a fixable repair, and she'll be ready for the water soon enough. :flag:
Too me it looks like it might have been dumped on the boat ramp or on the pavement at one time? Is the crack on the keel? Just curious-what is the location of the crack- where does it start and where does it end and how long is the crack?
Quote from: FINREAPER on February 12, 2015, 04:27:35 AM
I'm willing to bet streamfixers money
WOW :bigshock: You have made it BIG time :arms: Just to be sure I have enough for you to bet, would you be interested in purchasing some guaranteed winning lottery numbers??? :biggrin:
StreamFixer
Quote from: betadog808 on February 12, 2015, 12:24:43 AM
Well, filled the bilge up...no drips from the crack so that's at least a little good news...If there was a leak, it's pretty much game over right there....
Certainly not game over even with the crack no matter how deep. A good fiberglass man will make quick work of that and it will be good as new.
I had Arima do a few fiberglas repairs on my old Sea Ranger and they made it look so darn easy. Reminded me of a good drywall guy. Better to pay an expert. You can do yourself but it will take many times longer and not look as good.
I think it is important to take a grinder to that and reveal just how serious, or not, that ugly crack is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Old Chaser on February 12, 2015, 06:16:28 AM
Too me it looks like it might have been dumped on the boat ramp or on the pavement at one time? Is the crack on the keel? Just curious-what is the location of the crack- where does it start and where does it end and how long is the crack?
It's cracked on the port side of the keel. A little to the side of the keel point. The crack is about 2 feet.
I'm just hoping when we expose the crack the glass looks ok...
....or the keel roller came off of the trailer and the supports gaffed the hull. (Hopefully not all the way thru)
Looks like there's a thick layer of MarineTex/Bondo goop to grind through.
I actually had something like that happen on a roller trailer. The rollers turned upside down. Lucky I was going really slow and was able to avoid damage.
Quote from: ejthomp on February 12, 2015, 07:30:44 AM
Quote from: betadog808 on February 12, 2015, 12:24:43 AM
Well, filled the bilge up...no drips from the crack so that's at least a little good news...If there was a leak, it's pretty much game over right there....
Certainly not game over even with the crack no matter how deep. A good fiberglass man will make quick work of that and it will be good as new.
I had Arima do a few fiberglas repairs on my old Sea Ranger and they made it look so darn easy. Reminded me of a good drywall guy. Better to pay an expert. You can do yourself but it will take many times longer and not look as good.
I think it is important to take a grinder to that and reveal just how serious, or not, that ugly crack is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thomp, I hope you're right. But my glass guy was saying that if it comes down to having to do a repair from the inside, the money spent wouldn't be worth the boat's worth. I guess I'm not going to worry about it too much until we see what's going on in there.
I agree with Old Chaser. I'm thinking it was dropped off a hoist. Seems if it was dropped off a trailer the gouges would be parallel with the crack. It looks like the previous owner threw some bondo on it hoping the buyer wouldn't notice.
I don't think there is any stringer or reinforcement on the other side(inside in the bilge area) with the damage being so close to the keel. The way I see it you're only dealing with the one thickness of hull in that area. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong! I think next I would check the area for soundness in and around the damaged area by pushing(carefully) against the fiberglass to see if there is any give or weakness. When your testing the area use something that wont puncture or damage the hull any more- maybe the blunt end of a hammer handle or rubber end of a hammer handle -- be careful. After doing this test --and you find no areas that spring or bend or move excessively in and out, I think you could say that the damaged area is structurally sound. Then al l you need to do is fix the damaged area (a little bit of fiberglass and some gel coat) and you would be back in business. Something like that for a little bit of piece-of-mind. I remember Don saying those hulls are very very strong.
Update...so the glass guy came by today and did some grinding. He said the damage isn't as bad as it could have looked. It looks like the crack goes along the hull more than into the hull, so that was good. He wanted to do a good job, so he ended cutting out the affected area and will fill it. Then he will put a layer of glass, hence why he sanded off gelcoat around the area. The large area will also allow him to feather the repair so it doesn't have a huge bump. We both agreed that the look is secondary, safety is much more important. Here's some pics, more to come as he works on it. Thanks again for all the help!
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y384/jawnypublic/IMG_0549_zpsksozgbfk.jpg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/jawnypublic/media/IMG_0549_zpsksozgbfk.jpg.html)
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y384/jawnypublic/IMG_0547_zpsksnrzslk.jpg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/jawnypublic/media/IMG_0547_zpsksnrzslk.jpg.html)
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y384/jawnypublic/IMG_0546_zpsm8obrczd.jpg) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/jawnypublic/media/IMG_0546_zpsm8obrczd.jpg.html)
looks like the construction is gel coat, then glass mat, then glass cloth ?